Another Bus Crash 4/3

Olijimcha

Olijimcha

Member
fosse76 said:
As for monitoring buses, I'm sure someone can/has develop(ed) software that record the buses speed at any time, or perhap hidden cameras placed/angled on the buses that can see out the driver's window that can be reviewed for suspect drivers.
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All available, don't know whether or not Disney chooses to employ it though.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Timmay said:
Second fatal bus accident by RTD in Denver in the last two days

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=135932&catid=339
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=136035&catid=339

A virtual pandemic of careless behavior by upper management that should result in beheadings of all involved, or rather two very unfortunate incidents that really have nothing to do with each other??

I think I know the answer that some will give...:brick:
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Actually, yes.

Its a public transportation system and those in charge should be looked at when there's a rash of accidents, fatal or otherwise.
 
S

spangu

New Member
Conspiracy

It's all a conspiracy by Disney to kill the reputation of the bus fleet so that they can get shareholders to agree to full property expansion of the monorail system. They are hoping the cost of the lawsuits regarding bus accidents will eventually become more expensive vs. monorail expansion.
 
durhay

durhay

Active Member
cdunbar said:
His age is such a Catch-22. If they hadn't of hired him they'd probably be in trouble for age discrimination, and now that they did they're gonna be scrutinized for who they did hire. But, I do agree that an individual in their 80's should not be driving a bus... :shrug:
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The bus driver turned out to be good-natured, generous and likable. In three days no one could stand him.
 
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Eyorefan

Active Member
This is slightly OT, but if the FFA can set age limits on airline pilots by sighting health and safety concerns, can't Disney do the same thing when it comes to their bus drivers? I know of at least one major company who has set age limits for the pilots of their private jets. It was a policy that was challenged in court, but upheld based on the existence of the FFA policies (even though this company's age limit was five years younger than that of the FFA).

I'm not saying that this guy crashed his bus because he was 81 or that no 81 year old bus driver is safe. I'm just wondering why so many of the people on this board are so sure that Disney has no way of setting age restrictions on their drivers. I don't know what the laws and regulations are when it comes to bus drivers. I'm just saying that I highly doubt anyone who has posted on this board really knows either. Maybe they are right, maybe a company can't ban old people from driving based solely on age. But even if that is true, speaking from experience here, companies who want to discriminate based on certain protected criteria (ie age) for safety reasons can and will. They just have to get creative and be willing to stand up and fight for their position in front of a judge/arbitrator.
Sorry for the diversion, it just bugs me when people who don't really know about the law start speaking in legal absolutes. Okay... back to the bashing of Disney's bus system...
 
greebomusic

greebomusic

Well-Known Member
65 and the off to the Carousel! (Better than Logan's 30!)

logans-run.jpg
 
F

fosse76

Well-Known Member
Eyorefan said:
This is slightly OT, but if the FFA can set age limits on airline pilots by sighting health and safety concerns, can't Disney do the same thing when it comes to their bus drivers? I know of at least one major company who has set age limits for the pilots of their private jets. It was a policy that was challenged in court, but upheld based on the existence of the FFA policies (even though this company's age limit was five years younger than that of the FFA).
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Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Florida has a statute that prevents companies from mandating a retirement age. Driving regulations are the domain of the states, therefore the state law is the final authority. Air travel is regulated by the Federal Government through the FAA, which has set a mandatory retirement age. However, there is no prohibition in those regulations for companies to set a younger age. The younger retirement age is in compliance with the FAA regulations.

Eyorefan said:
I'm not saying that this guy crashed his bus because he was 81 or that no 81 year old bus driver is safe. I'm just wondering why so many of the people on this board are so sure that Disney has no way of setting age restrictions on their drivers. I don't know what the laws and regulations are when it comes to bus drivers. I'm just saying that I highly doubt anyone who has posted on this board really knows either. Maybe they are right, maybe a company can't ban old people from driving based solely on age. But even if that is true, speaking from experience here, companies who want to discriminate based on certain protected criteria (ie age) for safety reasons can and will. They just have to get creative and be willing to stand up and fight for their position in front of a judge/arbitrator.
Sorry for the diversion, it just bugs me when people who don't really know about the law start speaking in legal absolutes. Okay... back to the bashing of Disney's bus system...
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See above. Someone else mentioned that Florida law prohibits companies from mandating a retirement age. As such, Disney can't force someone to retire based on age. As for age discrimination, do we know how long he was with the Company? I haven't followed this since the initial reports. Perhaps when he initially applied for the job he was 60. Just curious. And while I think most of us would agree that age diminishes certain skills, a court would demand that the discriminating employer PROVE that the individual has diminished capacity for driving a bus. Perhaps Disney should start lobbying FL legislators for a mandatory retirement age for commercial vehicle drivers, assuming Disney would rather be able to hire younger bus drivers and force them to retire at an appropriate age.
 
E

Eyorefan

Active Member
fosse76 said:
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Florida has a statute that prevents companies from mandating a retirement age. Driving regulations are the domain of the states, therefore the state law is the final authority. Air travel is regulated by the Federal Government through the FAA, which has set a mandatory retirement age. However, there is no prohibition in those regulations for companies to set a younger age. The younger retirement age is in compliance with the FAA regulations.



See above. Someone else mentioned that Florida law prohibits companies from mandating a retirement age. As such, Disney can't force someone to retire based on age. As for age discrimination, do we know how long he was with the Company? I haven't followed this since the initial reports. Perhaps when he initially applied for the job he was 60. Just curious. And while I think most of us would agree that age diminishes certain skills, a court would demand that the discriminating employer PROVE that the individual has diminished capacity for driving a bus. Perhaps Disney should start lobbying FL legislators for a mandatory retirement age for commercial vehicle drivers, assuming Disney would rather be able to hire younger bus drivers and force them to retire at an appropriate age.
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But is this a case of them setting a retirement age? I don't think so. I think its more of a function of Disney setting a policey for who they deam fit to operate their buses. They could have a company policey in place where the drivers have to pass some sort of evaluation every year in order to be allowed to drive. I would think that they are allowed to set criteria based on driver reaction times, night vision, flexibility that kind of thing. Techically the driver's age would have nothing to do with it and it wouldn't be violating any retirement law. If anything the union would probably have some serious issues with it, but that could be settled over time. (Depening on how their labor contracts are worded).
 
F

fosse76

Well-Known Member
Eyorefan said:
But is this a case of them setting a retirement age? I don't think so. I think its more of a function of Disney setting a policey for who they deam fit to operate their buses. They could have a company policey in place where the drivers have to pass some sort of evaluation every year in order to be allowed to drive. I would think that they are allowed to set criteria based on driver reaction times, night vision, flexibility that kind of thing. Techically the driver's age would have nothing to do with it and it wouldn't be violating any retirement law. If anything the union would probably have some serious issues with it, but that could be settled over time. (Depening on how their labor contracts are worded).
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Do we know they don't already do this? People behave/perform differently in their jobs when they are being watched than when they aren't. Just because this bus driver was 81 doesn't mean his age was a factor in his carelessness.
 
E

Eyorefan

Active Member
fosse76 said:
Do we know they don't already do this? People behave/perform differently in their jobs when they are being watched than when they aren't. Just because this bus driver was 81 doesn't mean his age was a factor in his carelessness.
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I have absolutly no idea if they already do this or not. But if they are as desperate for bus drivers as people seem to think they are, my general guess would be that they don't.
 
Timmay

Timmay

Well-Known Member
PhotoDave219 said:
Actually, yes.

Its a public transportation system and those in charge should be looked at when there's a rash of accidents, fatal or otherwise.
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Actually...uh, no. :hammer:

Those in charge should be looking at the system to see if there was a breakdown somewhere in training, evaluations, etc. But in no way should heads roll, people be fired, or there be a complete overhaul of everything from top to bottom unitl it is determined if there is a relationship between the cause of the accidents...period!!

Oh, and define "a rash", because two or three incidents that are clearly unrelated (as far as WDW) just don't seem to be "a rash."

Sorry folks, sometimes a duck is just a duck...not a evil demon who is only looking at the profit line and putting people at risk.
 
N

niteobsrvr

Well-Known Member
Eyorefan said:
This is slightly OT, but if the FFA can set age limits on airline pilots by sighting health and safety concerns, can't Disney do the same thing when it comes to their bus drivers? I know of at least one major company who has set age limits for the pilots of their private jets. It was a policy that was challenged in court, but upheld based on the existence of the FFA policies (even though this company's age limit was five years younger than that of the FFA).

I'm not saying that this guy crashed his bus because he was 81 or that no 81 year old bus driver is safe. I'm just wondering why so many of the people on this board are so sure that Disney has no way of setting age restrictions on their drivers. I don't know what the laws and regulations are when it comes to bus drivers. I'm just saying that I highly doubt anyone who has posted on this board really knows either.
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Commercial Driving (including bus drivers) are regulated by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. The qualifications of drivers can be found here: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/FmcsrGuideDetails.aspx?menukey=391

There is a lot of information to process there but the answers to all of your questions and comments can be found at this link. The only qualification regarding age is that a driver must be over 21 to get the license. If my memory serves me correctly, Disney's requirement is that you be 23.

Exisiting law seems to always make it easier and legal to discriminate at the lower end of the age spectrum than at the higher end. I think many people find issue with this on some level. However, until the insurance industry decides they cannot insure commercial drivers over a certain age, I doubt you will see any changes.

I think many of you will be surprised that a driver doesnt have to be "fit as a fiddle" in order to obtain a Commercial Drivers License. There are many health related issues, that when treated properly, will not disqualify you from driving a large passenger or freight carrying vehicle.
 
unkadug

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
niteobsrvr said:
Commercial Driving (including bus drivers) are regulated by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. The qualifications of drivers can be found here: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/FmcsrGuideDetails.aspx?menukey=391

There is a lot of information to process there but the answers to all of your questions and comments can be found at this link. The only qualification regarding age is that a driver must be over 21 to get the license. If my memory serves me correctly, Disney's requirement is that you be 23.

Exisiting law seems to always make it easier and legal to discriminate at the lower end of the age spectrum than at the higher end. I think many people find issue with this on some level. However, until the insurance industry decides they cannot insure commercial drivers over a certain age, I doubt you will see any changes.

I think many of you will be surprised that a driver doesnt have to be "fit as a fiddle" in order to obtain a Commercial Drivers License. There are many health related issues, that when treated properly, will not disqualify you from driving a large passenger or freight carrying vehicle.
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I have a friend who is narcoleptic. When treated properly he doesn't fall asleep...but miss one dose...bam...he's wrecked another car.
 
cdunbar

cdunbar

Active Member
unkadug said:
I have a friend who is narcoleptic. When treated properly he doesn't fall asleep...but miss one dose...bam...he's wrecked another car.
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Dug, I'm really sorry and don't hate me but when you said bam....he's wrecked another car I cracked up laughing, I'm sorry!:eek:
 

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