News Annual Pass price increases June 2019

[VaderTron]

I know this will be unpopular, but I hope this helps reduce crowds since Disney still hasn’t expanded properly.

I’m an have an AP and will be glad to pay the new prices, but I hope regular admission is also increasing. The crowds are just too much.

An AP is still an awesome value.

Sorry, it will have no noticeable effect on crowds. You can go to your own private island if you want to get away from people. If you want to go to Disney you have to share, no matter how much money you spend.

 

[VaderTron]

Price isn't a factor for some people. As long as regular ticket prices increase, the AP will still be a tremendous value.

I hope it decreases crowds as a side effect.

We know that price isn't a factor for you. This is a place for regular people to bemoan the effect it has on their favorite entertainment hot-spot. All of your hoping will not change the crowds anymore than the people who hope they can get the old AP price grandfathered in by crying on the phone to a cast member.

This price increase won't change crowd levels at all. For an exec at a big company I would think you would understand that better than us "regular people" that you are trying to get away from. Again, I hear that private island thing is pretty nice. Maybe if you find one that you like you can pay some people to wear a mouse costume and charge you $50 for a burger while sitting on a beach with chicken wire blocking off the water [for safety]. You can call it Disnay Castawee Kay (to avoid being sued by your "friends" at Disney).

 

[larryz]

Check out the green bars for profit. Disney did better during the Great Recession than five years prior to that.

View attachment 382376

Is that Corporate Disney, or just P&R?

 

[RustySpork]

We know that price isn't a factor for you. This is a place for regular people to bemoan the effect it has on their favorite entertainment hot-spot. All of your hoping will not change the crowds anymore than the people who hope they can get the old AP price grandfathered in by crying on the phone to a cast member.

This price increase won't change crowd levels at all. For an exec at a big company I would think you would understand that better than us "regular people" that you are trying to get away from. Again, I hear that private island thing is pretty nice. Maybe if you find one that you like you can pay some people to wear a mouse costume and charge you $50 for a burger while sitting on a beach with chicken wire blocking off the water [for safety]. You can call it Disnay Castawee Kay (to avoid being sued by your "friends" at Disney).

The more I think about it, and the more I see reactions and comments about it, the more I start to believe the target guests are the non-local guests who buy APs and use them to vacation over two years instead of buying tickets both years.

 

[larryz]

If I were just trying to be argumentative I would try quite a lot harder and from a much different angle. Sure, it's a lot different than a night at the Borgata or day at Hershey Park, but that doesn't mean it is never the same..or to show a bit of ability to be flexible in my position, incredibly similar. To use your theory, the Borgata and Hershey Park wouldn't compare either.

Here are the concerts at the parks for 2019.

Universal Orlando

• BUSH
• Gavin DeGraw
• Dan + Shay
• Macklemore
• Sabrina Carpenter
• Becky G
• Sean Paul
• Steve Miller Band
• Ziggy Marley
• Pitbull
• Bazzi
• Prince Royce

Epcot

• Journey former lead vocalist Steve Augeri
• Glass Tiger
• Jon Anderson of Yes
• Tony Orlando
• Wang Chung
• Simple Plan
• Ambrosia
• Magic Giant
• Air Supply
• Berlin, featuring Terri Nunn
• The Smithereens
• Rick Springfield
• Christopher Cross
• The Spinners
• Dennis DeYoung, original member of the group Styx
• John Michael Montgomery
• Sister Sledge
• Night Ranger
• Sister Hazel
• Steven Curtis Chapman
• TobyMac
• Lonestar
• The Orchestra, starring former members of ELO
• Herman’s Hermits, starring Peter Noone
• Don Felder, formerly of The Eagles
• A Flock of Seagulls
• Marshall Tucker Band
• Peabo Bryson
• Richard Marx
• Starship, starring Mickey Thomas
• Colin Hay of Men at Work
• War
• The Guess Who
• Jon Secada
• Blood, Sweat and Tears
• Eddie Palmieri

SeaWorld

• The Commodores
• 38 Special
• Lindsey Stirling
• Better Than Ezra with Tonic
• Olga Tañon
• Sammy Kershaw, Aaron Tippin & Collin Raye
• Jay Leno
• Andy Grammer
• Collective Soul
• Tenth Avenue North
• Postmodern Jukebox
• Willie Colón
• Macy Gray
• Earth, Wind & Fire

Busch Gardens

• Daughtry
• The Band Perry
• 3 Doors Down
• Fred Eaglesmith, Kathleen Edwards & Blue Rodeo
• Justin Moore
• El Gran Combo
• Stone Temple Pilots
• Josh Turner
• Mighty Mighty Bosstones
• Boys II Men
• Edwin McCain & Vertical Horizon
• Hunter Hayes & Levi Hummon
• Mat Kearney
• Walk Off The Earth
• Foreigner

Jay Leno does concerts?

 

[RustySpork]

Jay Leno does concerts?

That wasn't technically a concert I guess, but it was listed as a "concert" this year.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Is that Corporate Disney, or just P&R?

That appears to be just parks. Disney made over $12B in net income in 2018.

 

[networkpro]

Funny no one mentions that the net effect of this will be to "thin the herd" of AP holders just like they did in SoCal.

 

[Chef Mickey]

We know that price isn't a factor for you. This is a place for regular people to bemoan the effect it has on their favorite entertainment hot-spot. All of your hoping will not change the crowds anymore than the people who hope they can get the old AP price grandfathered in by crying on the phone to a cast member.

This price increase won't change crowd levels at all. For an exec at a big company I would think you would understand that better than us "regular people" that you are trying to get away from. Again, I hear that private island thing is pretty nice. Maybe if you find one that you like you can pay some people to wear a mouse costume and charge you $50 for a burger while sitting on a beach with chicken wire blocking off the water [for safety]. You can call it Disnay Castawee Kay (to avoid being sued by your "friends" at Disney).

Pretty condescending and silly, but I'll play anyway.

You're so confident price increases don't impact crowd levels, but of course there is a point they will. They did in California. I don't have the data for WDW, but I'd imagine every price increase has some impact. It may not be enough to stop new people from buying tickets, but raise prices enough and it will. You really think there are local passholders that will just sign right up for a renewal with this increase? By all means, share your data.

I'm on record saying Disney should double prices. That would have an impact, or no? Of course all of us are speculating, but acting like the price of a Disney ticket has no impact on guests is just wrong. The only thing crowd levels tell you is that Disney hasn't increased prices enough. Maybe they don't want to...I don't know their strategy.

I just know the parks are too crowded and I wish they'd increase it more while still maintaining their financial targets. I also have said I'm not FOR price increases just for the sake of people paying more. They should have expanded the parks more aggressively. Since they didn't price is their only option.

 

[xdan0920]

Funny no one mentions that the net effect of this will be to "thin the herd" of AP holders just like they did in SoCal.

Funny, that's all anyone has been talking about.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Check out the green bars for profit. Disney did better during the Great Recession than five years prior to that.

View attachment 382376

Yeah, pretty much what I was seeing in the annual report. I do try to come prepared with numbers when I make statements! Thanks for posting.

 

[larryz]

Pretty condescending and silly, but I'll play anyway.

You're so confident price increases don't impact crowd levels, but of course there is a point they will. They did in California. I don't have the data for WDW, but I'd imagine every price increase has some impact. It may not be enough to stop new people from buying tickets, but raise prices enough and it will. You really think there are local passholders that will just sign right up for a renewal with this increase? By all means, share your data.

I'm on record saying Disney should double prices. That would have an impact, or no? Of course all of us are speculating, but acting like the price of a Disney ticket has no impact on guests is just wrong. The only thing crowd levels tell you is that Disney hasn't increased prices enough. Maybe they don't want to...I don't know their strategy.

I just know the parks are too crowded and I wish they'd increase it more while still maintaining their financial targets. I also have said I'm not FOR price increases just for the sake of people paying more. They should have expanded the parks more aggressively. Since they didn't price is their only option.

I expect we'll see Floridians trading down to the passes with lower prices despite the blackouts.

 

[xdan0920]

An AP is still an awesome value.

If you are willing to give 3 weeks of your life to Disney World, which is, I mean, enjoy.

 

[RustySpork]

I expect we'll see Floridians trading down to the passes with lower prices despite the blackouts.

Some people will probably switch to the Theme Park Select pass which didn't increase. I looked into it last year, but I didn't like the blockout date arrangement at-all. The silver pass blocking out summer doesn't work for me either. The majority of us will probably just suck it up and buy less merchandise to compensate.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If you are correct and 10% are AP then all the "this is to address overcrowding issues" people are flat out wrong. You don't change crowding issues by angering and chasing off a small percentage of a small percentage! If as many as 25% of AP didn't renew and there were no new AP to replace them that's still just 2.5% of total attendance. That's not enough change to even knock 5 min off the average wait time for rides.

Further proof this is just a cash grab.

Well it’s not that simple...i said that was the estimate on a given day...and it was a long time ago. With the growth of DVC that number is probably higher now.

But beyond that...anyone who thinks ANYTHING they are doing is to limit attendance is a damn fool.

That is like a fable told to kindergarten children.
They run amusement parks that require massive attendance...that is a set in stone fact. You don’t “limit” your numbers no matter how much the remaining fools pay.

There is a ton of merch to be moved and your operational/overhead costs are largely fixed. To simply open the gates requires as many people as you can...because it’s about ROI.

Just as new rides are a LOSS...not a gain. They don’t want happy people spread out on new rides...they want people crammed on old ones with less overhead as a whole.

The balancing act is always to convince the masses they want you to have fun. Disney leadership actually used to care about that to an extent. It was a philosophy about repeat business and fortifying brand loyalty.

But this guy doesn’t. Not the same kinda guy. It’s all stock watch and the belief that if you just slap th label on as many things as possible - you can charge whatever and win.

 

[VaderTron]

Pretty condescending and silly, but I'll play anyway.

You're so confident price increases don't impact crowd levels, but of course there is a point they will. They did in California. I don't have the data for WDW, but I'd imagine every price increase has some impact. It may not be enough to stop new people from buying tickets, but raise prices enough and it will. You really think there are local passholders that will just sign right up for a renewal with this increase? By all means, share your data.

I'm on record saying Disney should double prices. That would have an impact, or no? Of course all of us are speculating, but acting like the price of a Disney ticket has no impact on guests is just wrong. The only thing crowd levels tell you is that Disney hasn't increased prices enough. Maybe they don't want to...I don't know their strategy.

I just know the parks are too crowded and I wish they'd increase it more while still maintaining their financial targets. I also have said I'm not FOR price increases just for the sake of people paying more. They should have expanded the parks more aggressively. Since they didn't price is their only option.

Since you can't be troubled to do simple math and you accountant seems to be at lunch I will do it for you. Disney Land had as many as FOURTY PERCENT of their attendance comprised of annual passholders before their astronomical price hikes. Disney World has around 15% (based on an estimate of 50% growth in annual passholders over the past several years). Many argue that for every person who doesn't renew there are two new buyers to replace them. While that's not true at all, there is truth in that some new passholders will come buy. So, even if you anger as much as 25% of annual passholders for WDW into not renewing, you will always have some new AP buyers. Let's say it's enough to replace 10% of those who left. Now overall you have decreased your annual passholders by 15%. Since WDW AP's make up about 15% of the visitors you are decreasing attendance by TWO PERCENT. Disney already has a practice of slow-opening rides (example: one side of Space Mountain is closed for at least the first hour of opening) to artificially inflate ride times and keep more people walking around buying food and overprice crap they wouldn't buy if they were on a ride. You can bet your mansion they will maintain that practice longer if needed until the park fills up mid-day. That's why you will see ride times at Space Mountain at 50 min at 9:30am. Not because there are a ton of people there but because Disney is only running one side of the ride. Just for argument's sake let's say that ride times directly correlated to park attendance. A drop of 2% in attendance would mean Space Mountain's ride time would drop from 50 min to 49 min. Since ride times run on the 5's they wouldn't even drop the time.

I was extremely conservative in my estimates. Most people will argue that SWGE and other new attractions will attract a lot of new passholders, and there will be little to no change in the number of passholders.

Bottom line: This has nothing to do with crowding. Even if Disney brass was ignorant enough to believe it would, it has no chance of working. The reality is this is to increase revenue.

 

[johnny_most]

Sorry if this was already mentioned: you can still get AP's for normal (ahem , lower) prices at Sam's club.

Sam's Club Travel & Entertainment

Sam's Club provides incredible Travel & Entertainment benefits to its members with exclusive discounts to theme-parks, hotels, attractions, events, movies and more.

serviceshub.samsclub.com

I am not a Sam's club member yet I purchased APs for my upcoming December and May trips and attached them to my wife and I in MDE. I had the confirmation # and added to MDE in about 25 minutes from purchase time.

 

[LSLS]

If you are correct and 10% are AP then all the "this is to address overcrowding issues" people are flat out wrong. You don't change crowding issues by angering and chasing off a small percentage of a small percentage! If as many as 25% of AP didn't renew and there were no new AP to replace them that's still just 2.5% of total attendance. That's not enough change to even knock 5 min off the average wait time for rides.

Further proof this is just a cash grab.

I think the fact they are building more hotel rooms is as proof of that as any

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Option 2 actually can cost them something, depending on how people respond. While there are some people who don't care about prices and will spend whatever to do whatever, most people have a budget or at least a set amount that they can stomach shelling out before the cost ruins the enjoyment. These park-goers are only going to spend so much. So, once they reach that amount they will modify their itinerary or eliminate some purchases. If they choose to keep an AP they may now downgrade a tier to absorb the price hike. If they stay at the same AP tier they may book a cheaper room (Disney moderate instead of Deluxe, Value instead of Moderate, pool room instead of 1 bedroom, standard view instead of garden view, etc.) or just stay off-site at a hotel/house that offers more space for the same price (giving Disney a negative profit). For those who must stay on-site they may eat at lower-cost restaurants. Instead of the Signatures they usually book, they might do some moderate ADR's, mix in some quick-service or even (dare I say it) eat at a non-Disney restaurant nearby. Perhaps they don't splurge on that dinner show (never seen so many openings for Hoop de Doo or the Spirit of Aloha shows in my life), or they limit themselves on drinks, and even ignore that souvenir they normally would have bought. (See: Banshee discount pile in Windtraders).

The point is, option 2 costs something. It just moves the loses around. The question is will there be enough increased revenue to overtake those losses significantly enough that the results aren't too flat? I don't even think Disney is that confident they will since they took the same opportunity to announce an immediate and a second, future increase in hotel parking charges.

What we will see in the short-term is exactly what Disney wants from all of this. More out of state and out of country visitors who spend spend spend. The question will be, how many more of those guests will they be able to attract than they already are getting? Because that's the only way to offset the inevitable losses on the AP side of things.

The Disney management has convinced themselves that they are strong enough to make the budgets of their customers irrelevant. Either through replacement customers or temporary pricing If they get blowback.

To his credit: Iger has gotten away with it. Can’t be denied.

But it also shows why he should be GONE.

What???...but squawkbox loves him!!!??


Yeah...I know soulless grabbers love him...

But there’s a leadership crisis that they’ve just learned to deal with. No less than what Roy fought Eisner on. Damaging short term pricing is just a dangerous as failures and stagnation in the realistic sense. And when staggs/Rasulo were pushed out that was a huge red flag everyone ignored. No succession plan. Worse that before. You have a guy with a parachute on and NOBODY behind: and a weak/mercenary board.

There’s an easy; predicable path to crisis. Bobs playing with house money and everyone else is on a cold streak at the table - potentially.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the fact they are building more hotel rooms is as proof of that as any

Actually it’s worse than that. The fact they haven’t built a single new traditional hotel room from scratch since 2001 is far more indicative of the fact they NEED more people. All that’s been done since are timeshares and conversions.

While aggregate clicks have gone up - my semi-informed opinion thinks they privately are really ticked that the on-property demand isn’t greater. There’s no waiting list for rooms...that’s bandied about but false if you know what to look for.

What am I saying? They would have 10,000 more rooms and gladly welcome 65,000,000 visitors right now if they could do it at their price. And do it with no new attractions.

The idea they want to limit anything makes less sense than the Italian army at this point. What a hoax