EPCOT Announced: Mary Poppins Attraction in UK Pavilion

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
We also do not have an Alice ride at the WDW parks... Alice meets at the UK Pavilion... that would always fit well too... Queue in Lewis Carrol's house and we walk through the looking glass into the queue that takes us on a journey to Wonderland.... That could fit nicely...But to me, Mary Poppins feels more British... It takes place in London...feels more culturally British.... better fit.....
 

wannabeBelle

Well-Known Member
We also do not have an Alice ride at the WDW parks... Alice meets at the UK Pavilion... that would always fit well too... Queue in Lewis Carrol's house and we walk through the looking glass into the queue that takes us on a journey to Wonderland.... That could fit nicely...But to me, Mary Poppins feels more British... It takes place in London...feels more culturally British.... better fit.....
I'd happily take either one as long as it is done right. Marie
 

osian

Well-Known Member
We also do not have an Alice ride at the WDW parks... Alice meets at the UK Pavilion... that would always fit well too... Queue in Lewis Carrol's house and we walk through the looking glass into the queue that takes us on a journey to Wonderland.... That could fit nicely...But to me, Mary Poppins feels more British... It takes place in London...feels more culturally British.... better fit.....
Well, hate to bring this up, but it's a bit of a stereotype! It might be how Americans see Britain/UK, but that's the point, it's not actually representative.

I'm already quite miffed that there is so much Poppins, Alice, Pooh and London in the UK pavilion.

To me (in north west Wales), London and Poppins are so far, far removed from what life is like. And a huge amount of the UK is rural, rugged or mountainous (Wales and Scotland especially) and we don't all speak with Potter accents. Remember that the UK is four separate nations, and London is one tiny (geographically) part of only one of them.

At least Alice has connections to North Wales, however that's not really surfaced in the UK pavilion. I can't think of any Disney IP that could represent Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland - the UK pavilion is essentially England if it has to have IP. In fact, the whole architecture of the pavilion is already mostly English, the only building that could be considered as UK-wide is the pub.
 
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wdrive

Well-Known Member
I can't think of any Disney IP that could represent Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland - the UK pavilion is essentially England if it has to have IP.

Brave

Although I’d be surprised to see them green light any permanent Scottish addition with the years of Scottish independence debate.

Also it’s not like any of the other pavilions represent more than one city/area of the country. The French pavilion is distinctly Parisian etc
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
All of Germany is not Bavaria, All of Italy is not Venice... You need to choose something that is recognizable at a glance and evokes the feel of the country or location... So yeah, all of the US is not New York City...I get it... How do you represent a country with a pavilion and showcase every diverse bit and encapsulate it into a tiny plot of land in a theme park? I think they did pretty well considering... And as far as attractions for each pavilion, with the IP mandate, Mary Poppins, Pooh, Alice, Mr.Toad and Brave are all candidates... Which one feels the most quintessentially "British" to you?
 

osian

Well-Known Member
All of Germany is not Bavaria, All of Italy is not Venice... You need to choose something that is recognizable at a glance and evokes the feel of the country or location... So yeah, all of the US is not New York City...I get it... How do you represent a country with a pavilion and showcase every diverse bit and encapsulate it into a tiny plot of land in a theme park? I think they did pretty well considering... And as far as attractions for each pavilion, with the IP mandate, Mary Poppins, Pooh, Alice, Mr.Toad and Brave are all candidates... Which one feels the most quintessentially "British" to you?
None actually! I look at Brave and see Scottish. I look at the others and see English. For a UK pavilion, I don't think any of those characters represent "UK" well at all. I don't think there is a quintessential British at all although quite ironically, in some ways if you look at British identity closely in the literal meaning of the word it would probably consist of the Celts and exclude the English! For what most people think of as British, they are probably thinking of something English, which is a stereotypical view of what the UK is.

I know this sounds like I'm overthinking it, but this does relate to the stereotyping and caricature argument that we've seen in the Peter Pan thread. How do natives see themselves vs. how people outside see them, and should they be represented in stereotypical form because that's how the outside people are used to seeing them?
 
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Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
I think, if they want to build an Alice in Wonderland dark ride, they should bulldoze the Tomorrowland Speedway and build it near the Mad Tea Party in Fantasyland.

As for Mr. Toad... honestly, I'd still be shocked if it survives at Disneyland under Iger's Disney.
 

WaluigiTime

Well-Known Member
I think, if they want to build an Alice in Wonderland dark ride, they should bulldoze the Tomorrowland Speedway and build it near the Mad Tea Party in Fantasyland.

As for Mr. Toad... honestly, I'd still be shocked if it survives at Disneyland under Iger's Disney.

I have absolutely no proper insight on this but what I think helped Mr.Toad stay around as long as it has is that it is in the same building as Peter Pan and Alice in Wonderland.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
None actually! I look at Brave and see Scottish. I look at the others and see English. For a UK pavilion, I don't think any of those characters represent "UK" well at all. I don't think there is a quintessential British at all although quite ironically, in some ways if you look at British identity closely in the literal meaning of the word it would probably consist of the Celts and exclude the English! For what most people think of as British, they are probably thinking of something English, which is a stereotypical view of what the UK is.

I know this sounds like I'm overthinking it, but this does relate to the stereotyping and caricature argument that we've seen in the Peter Pan thread. How do natives see themselves vs. how people outside see them, and should they be represented in stereotypical form because that's how the outside people are used to seeing them?
Which is then the general problem of representing a country at this day and time... But the UK's Identity in a world view (maybe not to Brits) seems to go back to London and Britain's history from the time of Kings until the early 20th century...Much like when most people think about France, they think about Paris...The 18th Century through the early 20th century... same thing.... It is identifiable. So I guess that would mean no attraction for the UK....or any of the pavilions because the story of each one is broader than what they can actually produce to show it all? Or do you think we can understand that this is a representation but not the whole story...in the easiest most palatable way... A joyful moment inspired by....
 

osian

Well-Known Member
The UK is always complicated....

There isn't another country that I can think of in the same situation. It's a geo-political entity classed as a country but which consists of several individual countries. You could compare it to the USA and the individual states, but that's at a lower level. Or a continent and the individual countries, but that's at a higher level. Or a country and its counties, or laender, or whatever. But whatever the level and subdivisions, there will always be cultural differences between them.

You used France and Paris as an example, but I could show you USA and then try to say that it's impossible to represent everything so we have to use Tom Sawyer as a representation of someone who is quintessentially American. Or what other fictional, stereotyped characters are there that non-Americans think of first when they think of America? And why on earth could anyone think that a rat is quintessentially French.

The problem is the IP...

In China, Canada and France, we have attractions that do actually demonstrate how diverse these countries are (and I'm not talking about the Beauty & the Beast Sing-Along). In Norway, we used to have an attraction that explored the folklore of the country and another one that also showed the diversity of the country. All of the country pavilions pick some sort of typical architecture or famous landmark and the Germany pavilion was meant to have a Rhine river cruise, not trying to claim that these are what's found everywhere in those countries but a few examples. It should not be difficult to fairly represent the country and its people as a whole, without resorting to stereotyped fictional characters.

The Amercan Adventure successfully gives us the entire history of the USA in 25 minutes!

The UK pavilion could be expanded with atttractions that focus on each country, history and folklore, environment, language....or one attraction that does them all, to demonstrate that it's a diverse nation. It could be a film like some of the others, or an omnimover, or boat ride. But of course present-day Disney is not going to do that. I'm sure there are people who don't even realise that the UK consists of four countries, I regularly hear people talking about the English pavilion. And I came across someone a couple of months ago who thought that Welsh was a regional dialect of English. It doesn't help to keep re-enforcing those misperceptions by rehashing the same stereotypes.
 
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Professortango1

Well-Known Member
The UK is always complicated....

There isn't another country that I can think of in the same situation. It's a geo-political entity classed as a country but which consists of several individual countries. You could compare it to the USA and the individual states, but that's at a lower level. Or a continent and the individual countries, but that's at a higher level. Or a country and its counties, or laender, or whatever. But whatever the level and subdivisions, there will always be cultural differences between them.

You used France and Paris as an example, but I could show you USA and then try to say that it's impossible to represent everything so we have to use Tom Sawyer as a representation of someone who is quintessentially American. Or what other fictional, stereotyped characters are there that non-Americans think of first when they think of America? And why on earth could anyone think that a rat is quintessentially French.

The problem is the IP...

In China, Canada and France, we have attractions that do actually demonstrate how diverse these countries are (and I'm not talking about the Beauty & the Beast Sing-Along). In Norway, we used to have an attraction that explored the folklore of the country and another one that also showed the diversity of the country. All of the country pavilions pick some sort of typical architecture or famous landmark and the Germany pavilion was meant to have a Rhine river cruise, not trying to claim that these are what's found everywhere in those countries but a few examples. It should not be difficult to fairly represent the country and its people as a whole, without resorting to stereotyped fictional characters.

The Amercan Adventure successfully gives us the entire history of the USA in 25 minutes!

The UK pavilion could be expanded with atttractions that focus on each country, history and folklore, environment, language....or one attraction that does them all, to demonstrate that it's a diverse nation. It could be a film like some of the others, or an omnimover, or boat ride. But of course present-day Disney is not going to do that. I'm sure there are people who don't even realise that the UK consists of four countries, I regularly hear people talking about the English pavilion. And I came across someone a couple of months ago who thought that Welsh was a regional dialect of English. It doesn't help to keep re-enforcing those misperceptions by rehashing the same stereotypes.
It also doesn't help that the other areas are Country-based and not region-based. Canada and the US aren't combined into the North American Pavilion. Mexico isn't a Central American Pavillion. Its hard to then have a pavilion which embodies three different countries and cultures.

That being said, let's just make a Darby O' Gill ride and call it a day. 🤪
 

osian

Well-Known Member
Y'know, I wouldn't mind Poppins being a host, or an ambassador, in an attraction that explores the UK. As opposed to telling her own story. She could "fly in" to the individual countries to give us a whistle-stop tour... It would at least show that there's more to the country than just Poppins.
 

Gusey

Well-Known Member
The UK pavilion could be expanded with atttractions that focus on each country, history and folklore, environment, language....or one attraction that does them all, to demonstrate that it's a diverse nation. It could be a film like some of the others, or an omnimover, or boat ride. But of course present-day Disney is not going to do that. I'm sure there are people who don't even realise that the UK consists of four countries, I regularly hear people talking about the English pavilion. And I came across someone a couple of months ago who thought that Welsh was a regional dialect of English. It doesn't help to keep re-enforcing those misperceptions by rehashing the same stereotypes.
I've always felt that that an attraction basked on folklore and literature could fit the UK pavilion and the current IP mandate. A ride featuring the wisps from Brave, Loch Ness Monster, Mary Poppins, Alice in Wonderland, Sword in the Stone, Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, Oliver, Peter Pan. Even The Black Cauldron is a Welsh story. There are a lot of Dosney movies based on British storytelling
 

WorldExplorer

Well-Known Member
I've always felt that that an attraction basked on folklore and literature could fit the UK pavilion and the current IP mandate. A ride featuring the wisps from Brave, Loch Ness Monster, Mary Poppins, Alice in Wonderland, Sword in the Stone, Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, Oliver, Peter Pan. Even The Black Cauldron is a Welsh story. There are a lot of Dosney movies based on British storytelling

I need a hybrid Submarine Voyage/Dinosaur ride where you go underwater and get terrorized by Nessie. It would have absolutely no cultural value, but I would really enjoy it.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
I love the sound of an attraction with Mary Poppins as the host or ambassador teaching about the different regions... That is a great approach and would add some real cultural depth in an old-school EPCOT way. Perhaps showing each region that a Disney character came from... Brave, Darby O'Gill, Alice, Mary herself... Don't think there is a Welsh story yet... Let's get Pixar on that!!
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
I'd love to see a Great Literature Ride with a ride taking us through the different iconic stories by UK authors, especially the if they have an M.R. James section. So many prolific "British" authors were from Ireland.
 

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