Phroobar
Well-Known Member
Are they iconic? Gene Autry made them famous but they won the World Series only once.iconic team
Everyone is doing mixed use development even if it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense here IMO.
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Angels tell Anaheim they're opting out of their lease on Angel Stadium
- Thread starter Jiggsawpuzzle35
- Start date
Travel Junkie
Well-Known Member
No they aren't. I was mocking someone else calling them an iconic team. They have the best player in baseball and his q rating (recognizable factor) is awful. That wouldn't be the case if he played for an iconic team, or even a decent team. The Angels sit near the bottom of the standings.
Blame that on the owner that plays GM instead of letting his GM do his job.
Travel Junkie
Well-Known Member
Arte has certainly made his fair share of screwups. He needs to stay out of the baseball decisions.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Good point. But that kind of proves the point that the land isn't as valuable as people like Dr. Moreno want it to be.
It's wedged up next to a busy elevated freeway and a giant ballpark. There are huge expanses of vacant land directly across the street owned by housing developers for the past 15 years and they still can't sell enough housing units to get the vacant land built on. There's a giant abandoned mall a half mile down the road (GardenWalk) that has been empty and ignored since it opened 12 years ago.
These are all signs that the market for housing and non-industrial development in that area is not nearly as strong as the plan's critics think. By trying to get Anaheim to dump its dozens of additional acres of empty land onto the free market is not going to make the already empty surrounding land more valuable, it's going to depress prices and leave the land empty for even longer.
Here's a picture of some of the 15 acres of empty land zoned for housing and light commercial directly across the street from Angel Stadium. It was graded and had infrastructure and streets installed in 2007, and it sits there empty and abandoned to this day, through real estate booms and busts of the last 15 years. The stadium and all its acres of surface parking lots are circled in red for our convenience.
The Platinum Triange isn't worth nearly as much as Dr. Moreno thinks it is. He can try and wish active developers into existence using their own cash from the Magic Money Tree that most Socialists think exists somewhere, but he can't actually make it happen. If the free market didn't want to build homes and businesses on this land for the past decade, political bluster about forcing more affordable housing isn't going to make it happen.
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TP2000
Well-Known Member
It should also be noted that what housing was developed and sold by private developers in the Platinum Triangle the past 15 years has been almost exclusively as apartments. There's only one condo development I know of, the first one to open around 2005 on the corner of Katella and State College. It had a a ground floor of retail/dining space that is now almost completely vacant, although the condos above are still occupied by owners.
The rest of the Platinum Triangle's development over the last 15 years has been fits and starts of some of the tackiest five story high apartment blocks that the early 21st century could create. The northern flank of Katella between State College and the railroad tracks is just a five story wall of cheap stucco blandness. And the developers could only sell them as rental apartments instead of condo ownership, because honestly, who would want to live here for the next 20 years???
A home only a semi-talented architect in 2004 could love!
Which is why "homes" never sold in the Platinum Triangle, and ticky-tacky apartment blocks became the rule. And thus you've got acres and acres of unused land on the streets surrounding Angel Stadium that still look like this, 15 years after they were zoned for dense housing and commercial/dining uses and had a street grid and underground utilities installed by private developers...
All this land around Angel Stadium is not worth the hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars that Dr. Moreno and his friends in the Politburo think it is. Anaheim should be thrilled that developers are still interested in trying to do something, anything, with the land in the 2020's. It's been sitting there unused and unloved for a long time now.
The rest of the Platinum Triangle's development over the last 15 years has been fits and starts of some of the tackiest five story high apartment blocks that the early 21st century could create. The northern flank of Katella between State College and the railroad tracks is just a five story wall of cheap stucco blandness. And the developers could only sell them as rental apartments instead of condo ownership, because honestly, who would want to live here for the next 20 years???
A home only a semi-talented architect in 2004 could love!
Which is why "homes" never sold in the Platinum Triangle, and ticky-tacky apartment blocks became the rule. And thus you've got acres and acres of unused land on the streets surrounding Angel Stadium that still look like this, 15 years after they were zoned for dense housing and commercial/dining uses and had a street grid and underground utilities installed by private developers...
All this land around Angel Stadium is not worth the hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars that Dr. Moreno and his friends in the Politburo think it is. Anaheim should be thrilled that developers are still interested in trying to do something, anything, with the land in the 2020's. It's been sitting there unused and unloved for a long time now.
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TP2000
Well-Known Member
This is the elephant in the room Dr. Moreno and several others refuse to talk about. This entire section of Anaheim is not an attractive place for people to live. Especially people who would use their own money to make a personal financial decision on where to live.
It's a great place for a huge ballpark and a big arena, it's a great place for an Amazon warehouse and a freight railroad, it's a great place for 14 lanes of speeding freeway. It's lousy for housing.
It's a giant flat piece of land, surrounded on its northern flank by industrial parks and warehouse districts and the busiest freight railroad corridor in Southern California. It's wedged between two very busy elevated freeways (Santa Ana and Orange), with the Orange Freeway on its eastern flank the most intrusive.
And on its southern and eastern flanks it is nailed down by some huge regional facilities; Honda Center, ARTIC, and Angel Stadium, that all create their own murderous traffic on game days and weekends. And if there's a baseball game and a Cher concert on the same night? Shelter In Place!
The southern perimeter of this area is walled in by the terminating Orange Freeway and 1980's office towers.
The street grid is dominated by busy 10 lane boulevards, with slender bands of streetside landscaping. It's not unattractive, but it's certainly not attractive either.
This area of Anaheim is simply not a place to purposely want to live long term, especially using your own money to invest in a home to raise a family, instead of just signing a one year lease when you're 25 or qualifying for free Section 8 housing welfare in one of the mandated Affordable Housing units on the ground floor.
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Phroobar
Well-Known Member
It kind of reminds me of this.This is the elephant in the room Dr. Moreno and several others refuse to talk about. This entire section of Anaheim is not an attractive place for people to live. Especially people who would use their own money to make a personal financial decision on where to live.
It's a great place for a huge ballpark and a big arena, it's a great place for an Amazon warehouse and a freight railroad, it's a great place for 14 lanes of speeding freeway. It's lousy for housing.
It's a giant flat piece of land, surrounded on its northern flank by industrial parks and warehouse districts and the busiest freight railroad corridor in Southern California. It's wedged between two very busy elevated freeways (Santa Ana and Orange), with the Orange Freeway on its eastern flank the most intrusive.
And on its southern and eastern flanks it is nailed down by some huge regional facilities; Honda Center, ARTIC, and Angel Stadium, that all create their own murderous traffic on game days and weekends. And if there's a baseball game and a Cher concert on the same night? Shelter In Place!
The southern perimeter of this area is walled in by the terminating Orange Freeway and 1980's office towers.
The street grid is dominated by busy 10 lane boulevards, with slender bands of streetside landscaping. It's not unattractive, but it's certainly not attractive either.
This area of Anaheim is simply not a place to purposely want to live long term, especially using your own money to invest in a home to raise a family, instead of just signing a one year lease when you're 25 or qualifying for free Section 8 housing welfare in one of the mandated Affordable Housing units on the ground floor.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
It kind of reminds me of this.
Yes, but at least the Soviets gave their worker's paradise housing blocks some height.
The housing in the Platinum Triangle is not more than 5 stories tall. It's almost all 5 stories tall, since that's the most economical to build with California's building codes.
The Platinum Triangle is a noisy, charmless area bounded by freeways, railroads and huge civic facilities. The value of the land for housing is not as high as Dr. Moreno and others seem to wish it was.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
I have been in multiple Moscow apartments in the 1990's. While the individual units were maintained by the residents, the halls, stairs and elevators were awful.Yes, but at least the Soviets gave their worker's paradise housing blocks some height.
The housing in the Platinum Triangle is not more than 5 stories tall. It's almost all 5 stories tall, since that's the most economical to build with California's building codes.
The Platinum Triangle is a noisy, charmless area bounded by freeways, railroads and huge civic facilities. The value of the land for housing is not as high as Dr. Moreno and others seem to wish it was.
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
A very sad story of Anaheim City Council not being able to manage the cities properties and those that own properties very well. Too bad the relationship with the biggest employer in the area (Disney) is not any better. To have considered selling the properties in question to Disney, who could definitely use more space, and ultimately be an engine pumping more money in to the community both directly and indirectly is kind of crazy. Just a thought.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Disney was not interested, the city and the majority of its residents wanted the Angels to remain in town. So the requirement of the Stadium and 23,500 parking spaces.
Disney did own the Angels, but sold the team to eliminate a conflict of interest in being able to negotiate broadcast rights. So they have no desire to buy the Angels.
If Disney was interested in the property, they would have spoken up.
RescueTheDay
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I just can’t get over that huge bias you have. Anaheim has created bad deal after bad deal. There’s no reason to give tax breaks for a ballpark, especially if the Ducks owners aren’t taking any. Anaheim has been a city full of bad policies that have hindered it with awful developments. How’s that super expensive train station working out? Garden walk? How about all these poorer communities outside of the resort district? Yet they’re going to spend millions of tax dollar money to build a park in this development? Make Arte pony up.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Former Mayor Curt Pringle: Anaheim Will Keep The Angels In The Outfield - Anaheim Independent
In 2004 and 2005, while serving as Mayor of Anaheim, the City of Anaheim underwent a massive revision of its General Plan. This document represents the city’s long-term planning for land use, development, opportunities for new housing, future transportation, environmental issues and other...
www.anaheimindependent.com
Currently at 12:51 AM, and 6 hours of discussion/debate, the discussion continues.....
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
The sale of the Angel Stadium property, the guarantee of the Angels staying in Anaheim until at least 2050, and that SRB takes over running the Stadium was approved by a 5-2 vote, Councilmembers Barnes and Moreno voting No.
www.anaheim.net/BigA
www.anaheim.net/BigA
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
After hours of debate, Anaheim approves details of Angel Stadium sale
When the sale closes, likely in late 2021, the city will turn over the stadium and the 150 acres for $150 million in cash and another $170 million in community benefits that include 466 units of ho…
www.ocregister.com
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Anaheim Council Approves Agreement To Keep Angels, Sell Stadium Site for $320 Million, Transform Site - Anaheim Independent
The Anaheim City Council early this morning approved several agreements that collectively will keep the Angels in Anaheim until at least 2025 and potentially until 2075, while selling the stadium site to partnership led by team owner Arte Moreno, which will transform the site with a mixed use...
www.anaheimindependent.com
Build us that brand new ballpark. Tired of looking and going to that aging dump of a stadium. The city should also stipulate in the deal that Arte Moreno refrains from interfering with the GM and President of the team.
NobodyElse
Well-Known Member
State rejects Anaheim compromise, expected to say Angel Stadium deal violates law
Excerpt:"For the better part of a year, the city of Anaheim has tried to persuade the state housing agency that the Angel Stadium land sale complies with California affordable housing law.
On Wednesday, the state is expected to tell the city the deal violates the law.
The California Department of Housing and Community Development is expected to transmit to the city what two sources called a “sternly worded” letter of violation, which would provide options for the city to alter the deal in order to satisfy the law.
The development does not kill the project. However, the city could have to decide whether it could afford whatever additional costs might be required or Angels owner Arte Moreno could have to decide whether to increase his investment to resolve a dispute concerning a law the city promised it had followed. Moreno’s development company has agreed to pay $150 million in cash for the 150-acre site."
SevenSevens
Active Member
From LA T:
The state agency said the city had violated the Surplus Land Act in three ways: by not properly classifying the land as surplus; by not making the land available to other developers; and by not notifying the agency of such availability and any negotiations before reaching the sale agreement with Moreno’s company.
The agency specifically rejected the city’s argument that the most recent version of the law did not apply because the city and the Angels were exclusively negotiating before a benchmark date of Sept. 30, 2019. The City Council approved the sale on Dec. 20, 2019.
In fact, the agency said, the City Council had voted against entering into a binding and exclusive negotiating agreement on Jan. 15, 2019. Beyond that, the agency said, Moreno’s company was not formed until Nov. 20, 2019.
The state agency said the city had violated the Surplus Land Act in three ways: by not properly classifying the land as surplus; by not making the land available to other developers; and by not notifying the agency of such availability and any negotiations before reaching the sale agreement with Moreno’s company.
The agency specifically rejected the city’s argument that the most recent version of the law did not apply because the city and the Angels were exclusively negotiating before a benchmark date of Sept. 30, 2019. The City Council approved the sale on Dec. 20, 2019.
In fact, the agency said, the City Council had voted against entering into a binding and exclusive negotiating agreement on Jan. 15, 2019. Beyond that, the agency said, Moreno’s company was not formed until Nov. 20, 2019.