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Anaheim GardenWalk Development Status report - 10/17/2017
- Thread starter Darkbeer1
- Start date
certainly facepalm. TZ is gone. It’s replaced.Disney never had to seek a replacement for TZ. What are you smoking?
Also, keep on claiming TZ isn't popular. I know you believe it so hard...
While you're at it, just forget about the fact that it has been around since 1959, was just greenlit for a new series reboot, and has influenced countless forms of media in the years between. You only need to mention the words "Twilight Zone" and everyone already knows what you're talking about. So yeah...people must clearly hate it!
Hatbox Ghostbuster
Well-Known Member
Lord, not me. I keep my fingers crossed that there won't be a third gate. Have you been to WDW in the last decade?
It Is What It Is
Active Member
Reading the thread through, minus the 'my opinion is better than you opinion' part, is it safe for me to logically deduce these things about the future of Disney Parks in SoCal?
Disney has never put any real consideration into developing the Toy Story Lot. If it had, they would have purchased Gardenwalk so they could connect the dots, i.e., DL/DCA to the possible future Eastern Parking Garage to Gardenwalk to Toy Story Lot. I've read that keeping people on property for as long as possible is one of Disney's highest priorities so they don't spend their money elsewhere. Business wise, that makes a lot of sense and if Disney did have Blue Sky plans for the Toy Story Lot, Gardenwalk is/was the missing link.
Someone mentioned a possibly new resort and water park at Toy Story Lot. Believing that Disney is/was thinking about Garden Grove for a 4th Value Resort, I think it would make sense to put a resort here. Water Park? Seems to small, and I guess people would park at the Eastern Parking when it comes around? But then Gardenwalk does there best to distract them from their walk over to a water park? Doesn't seem like the Disney way.
Looking at Google Maps satellite this morning, there looks to be a new apartment complex or backstage building going in the west of the French Quarter apartments. And there is the new hotel on the corner of Haster and Katella. The area is getting smaller and parking is still an issue. I believe it was the OC Register that reported both Mickey and Friends and Pixar Pals were filled to capacity last night for Halloween Scream fireworks. That to say, Disney still needs parking for its employees. Is it possible that the Eastern Parking project provides enough parking for everyone? Maybe. My opinion is that the future of the Toy Story Lot might be for more backstage holding area, a parking garage for employees and or a value resort or a combination of those. Again, that is an opinion - I'm going to be an a** here and say that some should look up the definition of that word after the last four to five pages of this thread.
So how does Disney expand? As for the two parks, looking at Google maps, I wonder about the Simba Lot. Could you do what was done with Downtown Disney and put a wide bridge over Disneyland Drive that starts where Boardwalk Pasta and the west side of the Incredicoaster track is and crossing the road to the south side of Paradise Pier. Simba looks like an ideal expansion pad for DCA. Paradise Pier would get valued added for close proximity to DCA, especially if they an entrance to DCA like the Grand Californian has.
There is also the Downtown Disney Parking area just south of the Pixar Pals garage. Disney showing us the concept art for the luxury hotel, we know Disney wants another premium hotel. Will this be where that goes? Does Downtown Disney expand into this area?
For Disneyland, it looks like space is running out. Maybe a few more buildings could be taken out just north of SWGE and Toontown, but seeing the proposal for Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway building, it seems unlikely they will go further north than that. When the Eastern Parking Garage is added and the bus stops are then on the backside of the motels on Harbor, is it possible Tomorrowland could get a little bit of the current area where the buses stop now? Seems more likely that would become Downtown Disney East instead of anything else.
The idea of a third gate is a nice thought but if there is one I don't believe it will be in walking distance of what we have now. The best scenario I have heard, and this could have changed since reading about this a few years ago, is the Anaheim Angels moving out of the current stadium and land being leased or sold to Disney. Big enough for a new park, parking and possible resort, to my knowledge that is the only hope for a third gate in Anaheim. That's it, right? Am I missing any other big ideas that have been floated? Am I way off the mark in anything I have written?
Have a magical day!
Disney has never put any real consideration into developing the Toy Story Lot. If it had, they would have purchased Gardenwalk so they could connect the dots, i.e., DL/DCA to the possible future Eastern Parking Garage to Gardenwalk to Toy Story Lot. I've read that keeping people on property for as long as possible is one of Disney's highest priorities so they don't spend their money elsewhere. Business wise, that makes a lot of sense and if Disney did have Blue Sky plans for the Toy Story Lot, Gardenwalk is/was the missing link.
Someone mentioned a possibly new resort and water park at Toy Story Lot. Believing that Disney is/was thinking about Garden Grove for a 4th Value Resort, I think it would make sense to put a resort here. Water Park? Seems to small, and I guess people would park at the Eastern Parking when it comes around? But then Gardenwalk does there best to distract them from their walk over to a water park? Doesn't seem like the Disney way.
Looking at Google Maps satellite this morning, there looks to be a new apartment complex or backstage building going in the west of the French Quarter apartments. And there is the new hotel on the corner of Haster and Katella. The area is getting smaller and parking is still an issue. I believe it was the OC Register that reported both Mickey and Friends and Pixar Pals were filled to capacity last night for Halloween Scream fireworks. That to say, Disney still needs parking for its employees. Is it possible that the Eastern Parking project provides enough parking for everyone? Maybe. My opinion is that the future of the Toy Story Lot might be for more backstage holding area, a parking garage for employees and or a value resort or a combination of those. Again, that is an opinion - I'm going to be an a** here and say that some should look up the definition of that word after the last four to five pages of this thread.
So how does Disney expand? As for the two parks, looking at Google maps, I wonder about the Simba Lot. Could you do what was done with Downtown Disney and put a wide bridge over Disneyland Drive that starts where Boardwalk Pasta and the west side of the Incredicoaster track is and crossing the road to the south side of Paradise Pier. Simba looks like an ideal expansion pad for DCA. Paradise Pier would get valued added for close proximity to DCA, especially if they an entrance to DCA like the Grand Californian has.
There is also the Downtown Disney Parking area just south of the Pixar Pals garage. Disney showing us the concept art for the luxury hotel, we know Disney wants another premium hotel. Will this be where that goes? Does Downtown Disney expand into this area?
For Disneyland, it looks like space is running out. Maybe a few more buildings could be taken out just north of SWGE and Toontown, but seeing the proposal for Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway building, it seems unlikely they will go further north than that. When the Eastern Parking Garage is added and the bus stops are then on the backside of the motels on Harbor, is it possible Tomorrowland could get a little bit of the current area where the buses stop now? Seems more likely that would become Downtown Disney East instead of anything else.
The idea of a third gate is a nice thought but if there is one I don't believe it will be in walking distance of what we have now. The best scenario I have heard, and this could have changed since reading about this a few years ago, is the Anaheim Angels moving out of the current stadium and land being leased or sold to Disney. Big enough for a new park, parking and possible resort, to my knowledge that is the only hope for a third gate in Anaheim. That's it, right? Am I missing any other big ideas that have been floated? Am I way off the mark in anything I have written?
Have a magical day!
If the Angels do leave Angel Stadium, you have to think that Disney will be the first to open its checkbook for the land. That much contiguous land being available in Anaheim's resort area (okay technically the Platinum Triangle, but still) is a once-in-a-generation sort of opportunity.
Also, as to Toy Story lot, if I recall correctly there was a deal struck when it opened that the lot had to remain a parking lot for 10 years, and that Disney could revisit other uses for it in 2020. I know Anaheim really wants to extend Gene Autry through that land, connecting ACC with the Angel Stadium/ARTIC land, so that's another potential stumbling block for Disney to work around in regards to redeveloping the Toy Story land.
It Is What It Is
Active Member
Yes, you would think Disney would jump on that property (Angels Stadium) if it were to become available. But I would have said this about Gardenwalk years ago too. Part of me wonders if Disney has given up or has never been serious about a third park under Iger's watch.
On Gene Autry, how does Anaheim get thru the Sunrise Palms apartment complex if they did plan on extending to the ACC? I have no idea who owns those. Do you have info on them? Hypothetically, if GA did go thru, I would think Disney would still have plenty of room to build a resort and a small parking garage between GA and Katella.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
That's the parking expansion for the Toy Story Parking Lot. Last time I was in that lot two months ago it was already done.
DrAlice
Well-Known Member
Do they? I thought that the only reason that option was put forward was because of a tax deal with the city. When said tax deal fell through, the hotel idea went away. I got the impression that it wasn't a top tier idea for the resort. Perhaps I interpreted that wrong, but I don't expect any new hotels anytime soon. My impression has been that the eastern gateway is a much bigger priority if they can work out the details with the city. Again, just my impression. Others here can offer better insight on those two things.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Yup, once the tax breaks were taken out of the equation the 4 Diamond Hotel rating no longer penciled out, for Disney or anyone else.
It takes a lot more up-front investment to build a 4 Diamond than it does a 3 Diamond, and then it takes more ongoing investment and expenses to keep the 4 Diamond rating going year after year once the hotel has been built.
Without tax breaks, there simply wasn't a single developer in the country who could make a 4 Diamond hotel pencil out in Anaheim. And that's a financial story that goes back 20 years to the birth of the Resort District, through financial booms and busts and a constantly rising attendance at both the Disneyland Resort and the Anaheim Convention Center. It only worked when there was a tax break involved in 2015.
It Is What It Is
Active Member
I'm a Bay Area person, I don't know how long Gene Autry Way has been around, 10 or so years? If GA connects to the ACC one day, is this something Disney is getting behind or quietly fighting? If my understanding is correct, this city council is more pro Disney since the last election?
If Disney was behind a GA extension, the only issue of using eminent domain in this time is housing shortage. If those apartments are on the lower income side, would politicians get behind eminent domain?
Or is Disney against the extension? And a pro City Council wouldn't bring up the subject? Ahh, politics. All this just calls for speculation but some of you have probably have an idea how this will play out. Would love to hear your two cents!
It Is What It Is
Active Member
Thanks you guys for the insight. Does Disney want a value or a moderate in that location do you think? Or do you see some other type of expansion there? Or is it in holding to see how the economy plays out? The latter is probably most likely.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I think the only ones actually waiting to see what happens to the economy are talking heads on CNN and MSNBC, but that's just cynical old me.
The overall trend for tourism and conventions is upward, decade after decade. If you started building a hotel right now, it wouldn't be ready until Spring 2022. You either want to own and operate a hotel, or you don't. If you want to own and operate a hotel, and it pencils out for your 20 year business plan in 2019, it's going to be fine in 2022 and 2025 and 2031.
But to build a swanky 4 Diamond hotel, you need to get some tax breaks. That's how it works in almost any American city for any fancy hotel built in the last 25 years. Anaheim is no different than Denver or Miami or New York or Atlanta.