All things Knotts Berry Farm

[cmwade77]

how cool would it be if knotts invested 500 million into soak city and built something like volcano bay....they would own the waterpark market in California

What I would actually love to see happen is for Knott's to buy some of the nearby land of places that didn't make it through the pandemic, which can likely be had on the cheap end right now, tear them down, make a new higher end Soak City, as you say something along the lines of Volcano Bay. Then tear down the existing Soak City and find a way to use that land to expand Knott's. And while they are at it, go all in on a super themed hotel to replace the Knott's Hotel.

This would cost a bit, but could truly set them up to become an international destination as well as a locals park, done properly, it could even help to revitalize more of Buena Park.

 

[SoCalDisneyLover]

The entry times at Soak City starting on June 15th have begun to change, so it seems they may be doing that a little longer.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I would expect reservations to become easier to get, but I don't think they will ever go away. There are too many advantages, such as:
it ensures that people who are coming from far away know that they will be able to enter the park, even if it reaches capacity without having to show up early in the day if they don't want to.

It allows theme parks to better schedule staffing, order food and such and reduce costs while still providing good service.

Speaking of staffing, while theme parks will be allowed to go back to full capacity, they may not be able to do so right away simply due to not being able to get enough staff and maybe even not enough food to accommodate doing so.

There are disadvantages to reservations too, particularly for paying customers. Many of which are interrelated:
1. No more stopping into a park on a whim (a pain and a deterrant for locals and less $$ for the parks)
2. Because of that, passholders are using their passes less and arguably receiving less value; I've only visited the park near me once because I would love to go now-I'd rather not have to think about what I might be doing at ____ time on ____ day when the park is showing me availability.
3. All of the staffing efficiencies can be negated if guests make reservations and then don't show up, which has already happened to many parks.
4. Most significantly, it's one more barrier to guests entering and spending money.

I'd argue that parks are clearly doing the best they can with the parameters of our current global health situation, staffing shortages, etc. but I wouldn't really say they're at the point of having good service as a whole. They're doing the best they can with the tools they have-an understandable and admirable effort-but hardly where service should be or is normally. Going back to reservations, saying "sorry, you can't come into the park today/ride this attraction today because we're full/reservations are gone for the day" is NOT good service and will leave a bad taste in people's mouths. Particularly for people who can't just check back another day and hope something's available then.

If they must have reservations because of governmental policies dictating they have them or because of other capacity/staffing issues necessitates them-fine. But it's not a good long-term strategy when the parks are back in full swing because then they're cutting people off who want to give them money arbitrarily. Now, WDW basically gets away with having copious numbers of reservations for things on a normal basis (though, pre-covid, pointedly NOT in park admissions unless it was one of the handful of days the parks genuinely reached capacity). DLR could potentially get away with it should the stars align the way Chapek undoubtedly wants them to. Others? No. Long term it won't work out well for them. So it would be in their best interest to ditch the reservation systems at the earliest possible opportunity.

 

[cmwade77]

There are disadvantages to reservations too, particularly for paying customers. Many of which are interrelated:
1. No more stopping into a park on a whim (a pain and a deterrant for locals and less $$ for the parks)
2. Because of that, passholders are using their passes less and arguably receiving less value; I've only visited the park near me once because I would love to go now-I'd rather not have to think about what I might be doing at ____ time on ____ day when the park is showing me availability.
3. All of the staffing efficiencies can be negated if guests make reservations and then don't show up, which has already happened to many parks.
4. Most significantly, it's one more barrier to guests entering and spending money.

I'd argue that parks are clearly doing the best they can with the parameters of our current global health situation, staffing shortages, etc. but I wouldn't really say they're at the point of having good service as a whole. They're doing the best they can with the tools they have-an understandable and admirable effort-but hardly where service should be or is normally. Going back to reservations, saying "sorry, you can't come into the park today/ride this attraction today because we're full/reservations are gone for the day" is NOT good service and will leave a bad taste in people's mouths. Particularly for people who can't just check back another day and hope something's available then.

If they must have reservations because of governmental policies dictating they have them or because of other capacity/staffing issues necessitates them-fine. But it's not a good long-term strategy when the parks are back in full swing because then they're cutting people off who want to give them money arbitrarily. Now, WDW basically gets away with having copious numbers of reservations for things on a normal basis (though, pre-covid, pointedly NOT in park admissions unless it was one of the handful of days the parks genuinely reached capacity). DLR could potentially get away with it should the stars align the way Chapek undoubtedly wants them to. Others? No. Long term it won't work out well for them. So it would be in their best interest to ditch the reservation systems at the earliest possible opportunity.

Most of these negatives can be corrected though with a few minor modifications, such as:
1. When parks at full capacity, this really won't be an issue as only the busiest of days wouldn't have same day reservations available and would you really want to go to the park on those days anyway? I wouldn't. Now this does reduce some advantage of the staffing part, but overall the impact of same day reservations would be minimal. And since they are no longer doing time of day, that eliminates that issue as well.

2. See point number one, it doesn't necessarily mean advance planning all the time, just when it is the busiest or you want to absolutely guarantee entry into the park.

3. They can go to the system Disney had for flex pass where you cant make reservations for say 2 or 3 months if you have more than a certain number of no shows in a certain time frame.

4. It really isn't much of a barrier once the park is back to full capacity, except on the busiest of days.

5. To be fully successful all buckets should be merged into one though, so it doesn't matter what type of ticket you are using, if there is space, you can make a reservation and go, if there isn't, you can't.

6. They could even have some days that are marked as good to go and no reservations are required.

Let's be honest, having reservations is the trajectory several theme parks across the country were on before COVID, COVID just accelerated the plans and I don't see theme parks going completely back to no reservations.

 

[cmwade77]

The entry times at Soak City starting on June 15th have begun to change, so it seems they may be doing that a little longer.

At Soak City, the entry times make sense due to the limited space at the entrance and limited security capacity.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Most of these negatives can be corrected though with a few minor modifications, such as:
1. When parks at full capacity, this really won't be an issue as only the busiest of days wouldn't have same day reservations available and would you really want to go to the park on those days anyway? I wouldn't. Now this does reduce some advantage of the staffing part, but overall the impact of same day reservations would be minimal. And since they are no longer doing time of day, that eliminates that issue as well.

2. See point number one, it doesn't necessarily mean advance planning all the time, just when it is the busiest or you want to absolutely guarantee entry into the park.

3. They can go to the system Disney had for flex pass where you cant make reservations for say 2 or 3 months if you have more than a certain number of no shows in a certain time frame.

4. It really isn't much of a barrier once the park is back to full capacity, except on the busiest of days.

5. To be fully successful all buckets should be merged into one though, so it doesn't matter what type of ticket you are using, if there is space, you can make a reservation and go, if there isn't, you can't.

6. They could even have some days that are marked as good to go and no reservations are required.

Let's be honest, having reservations is the trajectory several theme parks across the country were on before COVID, COVID just accelerated the plans and I don't see theme parks going completely back to no reservations.

1. It is an issue already when parks aren't at their full capacity. It's an issue at the park near me right now. If I want to go to the park now, but I can't go for two hours because that's when the next slot is open, I'm more likely to just say forget it and do something else. If that happens enough times, maybe I start thinking about what else I can do with my time and money. Especially since I've just had a year where going to the park wasn't an option at all.

2. But that's what it is right now effectively anyway. I can't go to the park today, the reservation slots are sold out. Or maybe I would have wanted to go right after lunch, but the reservations are sold out until the evening. How is that NOT requiring more advance planning than just walking in whenever I feel like it?

3. Fine, but not exactly guest friendly or something likely to be popular with most people, particularly those who were penalized.

4. Every step a guest needs to complete to enter is potentially a barrier to entry. A reservation absolutely is one such barrier, particularly for people who don't go to parks regularly or aren't tech savvy. Every barrier to entry deters more and more people from entering and spending money.

Which parks other than those owned by Disney or Universal were at all on this trajectory of requiring reservations pre-pandemic? Because I recall none. Many of the non-Disney/Universal parks that started out requiring reservations when they initially reopened have dropped the requirements, and that's certainly not because they're inherently lesser businesses. So far as I know, the ones that haven't dropped reservations are primarily because they are currently required to have them by law, and not because they think they're going to be great for their businesses long term.

 

[cmwade77]

1. It is an issue already when parks aren't at their full capacity. It's an issue at the park near me right now. Now obviously they're not open at full capacity, but if I want to go to the park now, but I can't go for two hours, I'm more likely to just say forget it and do something else. If that happens enough times, maybe I start thinking about what else I can do with my time and money. Especially since I've just had a year where going to the park wasn't an option at all.

2. But that's what it is right now effectively anyway. I can't go to the park today, the reservation slots are sold out. I want to go now, but the reservations are sold out until the evening. How is that NOT requiring more advance planning than just walking in whenever I feel like it?

3. Fine, but not exactly guest friendly or something likely to be popular with most people, particularly those who were penalized.

4. Every step a guest needs to complete to enter is potentially a barrier to entry. A reservation absolutely is one such barrier, particularly for people who don't go to parks regularly or aren't tech savvy. Every barrier to entry deters more and more people from entering and spending money.

Which parks other than those owned by Disney or Universal were at all on this trajectory of requiring reservations pre-pandemic? Because I recall none. Many of the non-Disney/Universal parks that started out requiring reservations when they initially reopened have dropped the requirements, and that's certainly not because they're inherently lesser businesses. So far as I know, the ones that haven't dropped reservations are primarily because they are currently required to have them by law, and not because they think they're going to be great for their business long term.

Knott's actually had some rumblings, as did Silver Dollar City, Dollywood, Legoland and several other more regional parks.

As I said, you won't have times entrances, Knott's doesn't even do timed entry now except Soak City, so it is literally a matter of is there space today? Yes, make a reservation and go right away. No, well the park is going to be full anyway. And with full capacity this is literally what it will come down to.

All Cedar Fair Parks still have reservations to my knowledge, even where they aren't required to do so.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Knott's actually had some rumblings, as did Silver Dollar City, Dollywood, Legoland and several other more regional parks.

As I said, you won't have times entrances, Knott's doesn't even do timed entry now except Soak City, so it is literally a matter of is there space today? Yes, make a reservation and go right away. No, well the park is going to be full anyway. And with full capacity this is literally what it will come down to.

All Cedar Fair Parks still have reservations to my knowledge, even where they aren't required to do so.

Silver Dollar City has dropped reservations (they didn't last long after reopening, though they briefly came back for Christmas season Saturdays). Cedar Point, Kings Island, and Worlds of Fun are doing reservations for their waterparks but have dropped them for their main theme parks. I can't see them lasting much beyond that.

I suppose I could see Dollywood potentially keeping the emphasis on reservations, and perhaps Legoland due to their continued dedication to building low-capacity rides, but I have followed all of the parks I mentioned in the previous paragraph long-term, and I never heard or saw any discussion or rumblings of the desire for reservations pre-covid, nor do I have any reason to believe they would return to them, seeing as they quickly abandoned them the moment they could. And what happened after they dropped reservations? Their attendance ballooned.

Maybe other companies are doing it differently, but Six Flags (at least the one by me; reportedly others such as those in Georgia and Texas have completely dropped reservations) is currently doing timed entry, and parks like Kings Island and Kennywood were doing timed entry last year before they abandoned reservations. Most of the other attractions I am planning to visit on my upcoming road trip, likewise, are timed entry. Valleyfair is the only park I have seen that is apparently doing the same thing as Knott's, and that may be because I'm a passholder, as many companies have tended to have more lenient requirements for passholders/members vs. day ticketholders.

I'm still not convinced that it's really in most people or company's best interest to continue the reservation system for any longer than they need to.

 

[SoCalDisneyLover]

Cedar Point, Kings Island, and Worlds of Fun are doing reservations for their waterparks but have dropped them for their main theme parks. I can't see them lasting much beyond that.

I just looked at the Cedar Point website, and they're still taking Reservations for the main park.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I just looked at the Cedar Point website, and they're still taking Reservations for the main park.

My mistake. And I suppose in their case, since their staffing issues are appreciably worse than other parks (to the point that they've literally had to drop operating days on short notice this month), it makes some sense. That said, my overall point that the majority of parks that have taken reservations over the past year have since dropped them when they've been able to still stands.

 

[PiratesMansion]

RE: Sky Tower, it's listed as closed on Knott's ride closures page. No reopening date is given for any of the rides currently listed:

Scheduled Ride Closures | Knott's Berry Farm

Stay tuned for the latest updates on Knott's Berry Farm's scheduled ride closures each season. Plan your trip to Southern Cal today!

www.knotts.com

 

[cmwade77]

RE: Sky Tower, it's listed as closed on Knott's ride closures page. No reopening date is given for any of the rides currently listed:

Scheduled Ride Closures | Knott's Berry Farm

Stay tuned for the latest updates on Knott's Berry Farm's scheduled ride closures each season. Plan your trip to Southern Cal today!

www.knotts.com

Most of the rides that are currently closed are likely due to technical issues more than anything else. The exception being the Stage Coach and Huff and Puff, those are clearly social distancing issues.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Most of the rides that are currently closed are likely due to technical issues more than anything else. The exception being the Stage Coach and Huff and Puff, those are clearly social distancing issues.

Frankly, Tower is also probably closed due to covid/distancing issues. Similar rides at Carowinds and Six Flags Great America are also closed (that one, for the year).

 

[cmwade77]

Frankly, Tower is also probably closed due to covid/distancing issues. Similar rides at Carowinds and Six Flags Great America are also closed (that one, for the year).

Except the tower was open during at least the first two days of passholder previews. And I know SeaWorld is having technical issues with thier that was caused by the extended shut down and the company that makes the part went out of business during all of this. It was almost ready to reopen, then the part broke.

These two points lead me to believe it is more of a technical issue than social distancing at Knott's as well. It is also highly likely that other tower may have similar issues and if they can't find someone to make the part, we may loose most, if not all of these types of rides.

 

[SoCalDisneyLover]

Except the tower was open during at least the first two days of passholder previews. And I know SeaWorld is having technical issues with thier that was caused by the extended shut down and the company that makes the part went out of business during all of this. It was almost ready to reopen, then the part broke.

These two points lead me to believe it is more of a technical issue than social distancing at Knott's as well. It is also highly likely that other tower may have similar issues and if they can't find someone to make the part, we may loose most, if not all of these types of rides.

They can bring back the Parachute Jump!!

LOL! That ride would Never be allowed again. To think, they sent people up unrestrained in that open parachute contraption.

 

[cmwade77]

They can bring back the Parachute Jump!!

LOL! That ride would Never be allowed again. To think, they sent people up unrestrained in that open parachute contraption.

Lol, so true....can you imagine if they tried that today?

 

[CaptinEO]

Most of the rides that are currently closed are likely due to technical issues more than anything else. The exception being the Stage Coach and Huff and Puff, those are clearly social distancing issues.

Is the Indian Lodge open?

 

[SoCalDisneyLover]

Is the Indian Lodge open?

It was open as a relaxation zone. When I was there last weekend, it was closed though.

 

[cmwade77]

Is the Indian Lodge open?

It hasn't been open for years as far as I am aware. But right now, it can't be until June 15, theme parks aren't allowed to have indoor shows before then.

 

[CaptinEO]

It was open as a relaxation zone. When I was there last weekend, it was closed though.

It hasn't been open for years as far as I am aware. But right now, it can't be until June 15, theme parks aren't allowed to have indoor shows before then.

Thank you. Hopefully the show will return.