Alcohol in the Magic Kingdom

[ford91exploder]

Are the lines for security that bad in the afternoon/evening? I thought that was more of a morning thing.

If enough people start "gaming the system" by taking up a table at dinner time and only ordering drinks I would guess Disney will act quickly to put a stop to that. The whole point of this change for Disney is to make more money. Even though drinks have a nice markup they still want to sell the overpriced food too.

Actually alcohol sales are much more profitable both in margin and dollar volume than food sales, I don't see any financial reason why this would be problem for Disney. If I sell 30 bucks in alcohol my cost is probably on the order of 3-5 dollars. If I sell 30 bucks in food my cost is probably 10-20 dollars.

It will be the people who want to eat who will be left out in the cold so to speak

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Of course, he controlled that stuff, he not only owned it, he created it. His personal opinion, due to his position was law. His attitude toward things was based in the 30's through 1966. It's all well and good to say that "this isn't what Walt would have wanted", but, if Walt hadn't changed his attitudes from back then all that we see might not exist. So many of us, me included, love to idolize the past. It was a time, perhaps when life for us was simpler and less stressful. It's like comfort food for us. I don't consider myself old, but, I will be 70 in a year and a half. When I was young 70 was one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. Even for me, a person that still lives in the 60's as emphasized by my collection and constant use of Beatle Music, realize that I am three generations behind now. Many, many things have changed over the 50 years since Walt died. And like most humans we tend to glorify things that are gone (dead) as if they were absolutely perfect instead of full of flaws and no longer up to date. That goes for things (like attractions) or people (like Walt). Nostalgia is something the older people live for, younger generations do not. They will, just not yet. That comes naturally later on.

Don't twist that around to make it sound like I don't think that Walt Disney was a remarkable man and that his "positive" influence isn't vastly visible all over the world now. Just in this country... who knows what Anaheim and the Orlando area would look like today if Walt had not existed. The man was, by god, amazing. But things we all believed in 50, or so, years ago are not necessarily the way society feels they are now.

Great post – and at 45, I'm beginning to realize that sense of "generational detachment." It used to be that high school was 20 years ago, now retirement is 20 years ahead. (God willing.)

 

[ford91exploder]

Great post – and at 45, I'm beginning to realize that sense of "generational detachment." It used to be that high school was 20 years ago, now retirement is 20 years ahead. (God willing.)

Nobody over 40 is retiring in America, the death of the defined benefit plan so we can get the defined contribution plan where the value is wiped out every 5-10 years by the banksters who get THEIR losses made good. OTOH the little guy is told "the markets have spoken take your losses like a good little drone"

 

[James Norrie]

Simple question- Do you bring your kids to the pools at WDW? They all have a bar, are they inappropriate for children? Heaven forbid that you order a cocktail while sitting at a table a few feet away and eating with your child, right? Their developing brains can't handle seeing someone have an adult beverage? They should definitely NOT see people sitting at a bar drinking while they are at a pool.

Where does the ridiculous judgement stop? I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that you have not been to any of the places that I mentioned. If you think these places are full of rowdy drunks then I don't know what to tell you. My kid could see a rowdy drunk at a professional baseball game, probably a stronger chance of that then at a WDW lounge while at a table by ourselves. Let me guess, professional sports game are inappropriate for developing minds as well? We should all keep kids in a little bubble...that way they can grow up to be judgmental and small minded too. Children's minds are impressionable. Condemning them to a world of hot dogs, chicken fingers, lack of experiences, and never knowing how to act appropriately in a "grown up" setting is one of the worst impressions of life that I could give my child. My opinion obviously, you do you.

There is a BIG difference between Expected Consumption and Incidental Exposure. When I did go to bars, it was to have drinks in a adult environment WITHOUT KIDS, where I did not need to mind the pleasantries and could relax without having to worry about some fragile mind. I think it is completely selfish of you to expect people to accept your kids in an environment that they should not be in. I will give you the Football games as a rowdy environment. But, let's be honest, nobody is lining up to get blasted at Fantasmic just because they sell beer there (also, Disney doesn't encourage drinking any more than allowing purchase there, whereas pro Sports events are literally sponsored by Alcohol Companies, let's keep it apples to apples).
You assume a lot about many on these boards, most of the time falling well short of the mark. I'm actually for the idea of alcohol in MK. You'd know that if you actually read my previous posts...

 

[Jon81uk]

Actually alcohol sales are much more profitable both in margin and dollar volume than food sales, I don't see any financial reason why this would be problem for Disney. If I sell 30 bucks in alcohol my cost is probably on the order of 3-5 dollars. If I sell 30 bucks in food my cost is probably 10-20 dollars.

The issue comes when you have the guests who order one or two $8 drinks (and maybe appetisers) instead of ordering $30 entree and $8 dessert.

 

[Bocabear]

First, 48" is the max height requirement at WDW, and there's only 2 that require that... Most 6 year olds are 48", the rest of the attractions with requirements, much younger. Of course there will always be a few exceptions there, but I'm quoting the norms. I can't remember my 1st birthday at WDW, but from the photos it looks like I enjoyed it, and my parents said I did, so I'll choose to believe them. I did not choose to bring my own child at that age.

As for the rest-
Simple question- Do you bring your kids to the pools at WDW? They all have a bar, are they inappropriate for children? Heaven forbid that you order a cocktail while sitting at a table a few feet away and eating with your child, right? Their developing brains can't handle seeing someone have an adult beverage? They should definitely NOT see people sitting at a bar drinking while they are at a pool.

Where does the ridiculous judgement stop? I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that you have not been to any of the places that I mentioned. If you think these places are full of rowdy drunks then I don't know what to tell you. My kid could see a rowdy drunk at a professional baseball game, probably a stronger chance of that then at a WDW lounge while at a table by ourselves. Let me guess, professional sports game are inappropriate for developing minds as well? We should all keep kids in a little bubble...that way they can grow up to be judgmental and small minded too. Children's minds are impressionable. Condemning them to a world of hot dogs, chicken fingers, lack of experiences, and never knowing how to act appropriately in a "grown up" setting is one of the worst impressions of life that I could give my child. My opinion obviously, you do you.

I love this sentiment and believe it heartily... You DO need to expose children to the world and experiences...teach them, show them and foster an expanded world view... that is good parenting! Ignoring your child to the TV and fussy picky eating does not create and foster a worldly mind... I guess the real problem is there are too many bad parents out there which makes a good parent like you suffer.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Actually alcohol sales are much more profitable both in margin and dollar volume than food sales, I don't see any financial reason why this would be problem for Disney. If I sell 30 bucks in alcohol my cost is probably on the order of 3-5 dollars. If I sell 30 bucks in food my cost is probably 10-20 dollars.

It will be the people who want to eat who will be left out in the cold so to speak

At normal restaurant food prices that would be the margin (30%) is reasonable, however, we are talking about Disney here and that tiny margin would be cause for someone to get fired. If they allowed people to just sit there and drink they might have a higher profit in the very short term, but, if people drink enough there are always going to be incidents that either drive other people away or create havoc that must be dealt with, at the restaurants expense. They have to determine if they want the establishment to be a lounge or a restaurant. It is usually not able to be both. It becomes one or the other. A restaurant that serves alcohol or a lounge that occasionally serves food to cover the munchies. Also, if a person drinks the amount, in cost, of what they usually eat, they will have to scrape them off the floor along with a variety of other stuff soaking into the carpets. Daily profit is quickly erased. Even the nerdiest of accounts know this and they want a job tomorrow as well as today.

One of the other tendencies that people have, especially in a high price booze place is buy very few drinks and just slowly sip while being social. A restaurant can serve two or more $100.00 meals in the time that those people go through $75.00 worth of booze. Either of the scenario's, the guzzler or the sipper, ends up costing them in peripheral ways.

 

[drizgirl]

One of the other tendencies that people have, especially in a high price booze place is buy very few drinks and just slowly sip while being social. A restaurant can serve two or more $100.00 meals in the time that those people go through $75.00 worth of booze.

I suspect this might have been the reason why it has taken so long for them to add alcohol in the MK. And likely the reason for the 2 drink limit. Especially in the castle, they count on turning guests over very quickly.

 

[21stamps]

There is a BIG difference between Expected Consumption and Incidental Exposure. When I did go to bars, it was to have drinks in a adult environment WITHOUT KIDS, where I did not need to mind the pleasantries and could relax without having to worry about some fragile mind. I think it is completely selfish of you to expect people to accept your kids in an environment that they should not be in. I will give you the Football games as a rowdy environment. But, let's be honest, nobody is lining up to get blasted at Fantasmic just because they sell beer there (also, Disney doesn't encourage drinking any more than allowing purchase there, whereas pro Sports events are literally sponsored by Alcohol Companies, let's keep it apples to apples).
You assume a lot about many on these boards, most of the time falling well short of the mark. I'm actually for the idea of alcohol in MK. You'd know that if you actually read my previous posts...

That pretty much sums it up. You speak of "Bars". None of the places I listed are a typical idea of a "bar". You have lounges, nightclubs, bars. Then you have categories within those 3.
There's a humongous difference between a hole in the wall bar, a nightclub in SoBe, a lounge with a house DJ in NY, and these "lounges" in WDW.

You've expressed that you think children "should not be in" nice restaurants or these WDW lounges. Not because Disney or the owners say they shouldn't be though, just because it's your view.

Here's the beauty of being a parent- we raise our children how we see fit. My child will accompany me to nice restaurants on special occasions, including when on vacation, and including a lounge at WDW. You want to go to Applebee's (where there's a bar and drinking as well in a much louder environment), that's cool. Nothing wrong with that.

What's wrong is the narrow minded view that a bar at Applebee's, 5 feet from the table your kids are sitting at, is any more "kid appropriate" than Shula's or Mizner's. The only thing different is the menu and noise level. All kids are different. Exposure is important to me. You view that as a horrible thought, I view it as attempting to raise a well rounded human in a way that makes sense to me.

If seeing a child sitting at a table 5 ft from you, eating and having a non alcoholic drink at 7or 8pm wrecks your evening.. I suggest first-taking a look at yourself, and second- maybe sticking to places that have a 21+ minimum

 

[21stamps]

I love this sentiment and believe it heartily... You DO need to expose children to the world and experiences...teach them, show them and foster an expanded world view... that is good parenting! Ignoring your child to the TV and fussy picky eating does not create and foster a worldly mind... I guess the real problem is there are too many bad parents out there which makes a good parent like you suffer.

I'm not claiming to be a good parent..or saying others are bad. I'm saying we raise our children according to how we want them to grow up.. we decide what they are exposed to. not all of us make the same decisions. We try to make an educated guess on how that exposure will benefit them or harm them. A child, being well behaved, eating a few appetitizers in a lounge at WDW shouldn't be harming anyone. The child, or the other adults in the same establishment.

If there's a handbook that exists, please pass it to me.

 

[JohnD]

37 pages and I think it all comes down to....

Walt is not and will not be involved in these decisions. I don't need a beer, I just want a beer. Disney wants my money.

So now you can say, "Take my money!" and you'll get a beer or wine in return in a TS restaurant.

 

[radiohost]

Just don't do beer carts and I'm ok with this...

 

[Communicore]

I just pictured some people downing Bud Light after Bud Light at the Royal Table while partaking in the "Chef's Tasting Plate" lol

 

[wdwfan22]

That pretty much sums it up. You speak of "Bars". None of the places I listed are a typical idea of a "bar". You have lounges, nightclubs, bars. Then you have categories within those 3.
There's a humongous difference between a hole in the wall bar, a nightclub in SoBe, a lounge with a house DJ in NY, and these "lounges" in WDW.

You've expressed that you think children "should not be in" nice restaurants or these WDW lounges. Not because Disney or the owners say they shouldn't be though, just because it's your view.

Here's the beauty of being a parent- we raise our children how we see fit. My child will accompany me to nice restaurants on special occasions, including when on vacation, and including a lounge at WDW. You want to go to Applebee's (where there's a bar and drinking as well in a much louder environment), that's cool. Nothing wrong with that.

What's wrong is the narrow minded view that a bar at Applebee's, 5 feet from the table your kids are sitting at, is any more "kid appropriate" than Shula's or Mizner's. The only thing different is the menu and noise level. All kids are different. Exposure is important to me. You view that as a horrible thought, I view it as attempting to raise a well rounded human in a way that makes sense to me.

If seeing a child sitting at a table 5 ft from you, eating and having a non alcoholic drink at 7or 8pm wrecks your evening.. I suggest first-taking a look at yourself, and second- maybe sticking to places that have a 21+ minimum

While Walt Disney World is for children, I feel that Walt Disney World Resort Lounges are not. Disney needs to have a place where adults can go relax have a drink and chat without having to worry about kids running around bored or watching what they say. Disney will never restrict access from children in the lounges but parents that bring their kids to the lounges should control them and be aware of the conversation they may hear. Growing up my parents would never have thought about taking me to a lounge and now as an adult in my 30s I wouldn't take my kids either. Adults need there place to relax kid free while on vacation.

 

[jakeman]

This has turned into a really weird thread. If someone wants to be drunk in the Magic Kingdom there is a lounge walking distances from the main entrance at the Contemporary.

I enjoy an adult beverage as much as the next guy. I've even been one of the well behaved degenerates at Epcot a time or five, but it seems like there is a concern that people are going to make ADRs to get hammered? Am I misunderstanding the issue here?

...maybe sticking to places that have a 21+ minimum

That would be a pretty cool concept. They could make it an Island. I would find that Pleasurable.

 

[21stamps]

While Walt Disney World is for children, I feel that Walt Disney World Resort Lounges are not. Disney needs to have a place where adults can go relax have a drink and chat without having to worry about kids running around bored or watching what they say. Disney will never restrict access from children in the lounges but parents that bring their kids to the lounges should control them and be aware of the conversation they may hear. Growing up my parents would never have thought about taking me to a lounge and now as an adult in my 30s I wouldn't take my kids either. Adults need there place to relax kid free while on vacation.

I don't want to keep going back and forth on this, I'm just shocked at these responses. There are places in WDW that are 21+, these are for adults only. A lounge at a resort someone is staying at is a great place to get food in a relaxing environment without a reservation and without taking hours out of your day. Like I said a few days ago, I must have been extreme lucky during all of my visits to WDW lounges.. I have never once seen children running around...or even several children in them. As far as Trader Sam's Tiki Terrace and Mizner's, and the new GV Champagne and Wine lounge, there is not even space for kids to be running around. You are sitting at a table, similar to a restaurant. I've also never had a neighboring table who was cursing loudly, I would not be thrilled with that regardless of if I was with a party of adults, or with my kid.

There was plenty of loud talk and bits of cursing during the Michigan OSU game at the Beach Pool Bar at GF. This game was at noon. We weren't sitting there, nor did I think it was appropriate for a 6 year old to be sitting there, so we made other arrangements to watch the game away from that atmosphere.

There was also groups of men sitting at the Courtyard Pool Bar every night, and a good portion of the day. We don't sit at a bar.

This has turned into a really weird thread. If someone wants to be drunk in the Magic Kingdom there is a lounge walking distances from the main entrance at the Contemporary.

I enjoy an adult beverage as much as the next guy. I've even been one of the well behaved degenerates at Epcot a time or five, but it seems like there is a concern that people are going to make ADRs to get hammered? Am I misunderstanding the issue here?
That would be a pretty cool concept. They could make it an Island. I would find that Pleasurable.

They should at least have a little section in DS.

 

[ford91exploder]

The issue comes when you have the guests who order one or two $8 drinks (and maybe appetisers) instead of ordering $30 entree and $8 dessert.

The scenario you set up actually is MORE profitable for Disney than the entree and dessert an $8 drink is likely to consist of maybe $1 in alcohol/mixer cost. so you have a $14 profit on the drink(s) and 5-8 dollars profit on the appetizers. For food $10 profit bucks for the entree and perhaps $4 on the dessert. So Booze + Appetizer (we'll go with $19 bucks profit) Entree+Dessert $14 bucks profit. Which one would YOU rather sell?.

Remember it's not the COST of the item it's the MARGIN on the item, And alcohol is the most profitable beverage to sell by far.

 

[jakeman]

I don't want to keep going back and forth on this, I'm just shocked at these responses. There are places in WDW that are 21+, these are for adults only. A lounge at a resort someone is staying at is a great place to get food in a relaxing environment without a reservation and without taking hours out of your day. Like I said a few days ago, I must have been extreme lucky during all of my visits to WDW lounges.. I have never once seen children running around...or even several children in them. As far as Trader Sam's Tiki Terrace and Mizner's, and the new GV Champagne and Wine lounge, there is not even space for kids to be running around. You are sitting at a table, similar to a restaurant. I've also never had a neighboring table who was cursing loudly, I would not be thrilled with that regardless of if I was with a party of adults, or with my kid.

There's like 3 spots in 47 square miles that is 21+ and two of them are at Boardwalk 20 feet from each other.

They should at least have a little section in DS.

They did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasure_Island_(Walt_Disney_World)

 

[ford91exploder]

At normal restaurant food prices that would be the margin (30%) is reasonable, however, we are talking about Disney here and that tiny margin would be cause for someone to get fired. If they allowed people to just sit there and drink they might have a higher profit in the very short term, but, if people drink enough there are always going to be incidents that either drive other people away or create havoc that must be dealt with, at the restaurants expense. They have to determine if they want the establishment to be a lounge or a restaurant. It is usually not able to be both. It becomes one or the other. A restaurant that serves alcohol or a lounge that occasionally serves food to cover the munchies. Also, if a person drinks the amount, in cost, of what they usually eat, they will have to scrape them off the floor along with a variety of other stuff soaking into the carpets. Daily profit is quickly erased. Even the nerdiest of accounts know this and they want a job tomorrow as well as today.

One of the other tendencies that people have, especially in a high price booze place is buy very few drinks and just slowly sip while being social. A restaurant can serve two or more $100.00 meals in the time that those people go through $75.00 worth of booze. Either of the scenario's, the guzzler or the sipper, ends up costing them in peripheral ways.

Specific values for margins notwithstanding, Alcohol is still more profitable per dollar than food to sell in any scenario. And as for lingering too long we all know WDW has the 'bums rush' down to a science at their F&B locations.

 

[21stamps]

There's like 3 spots in 47 square miles that is 21+ and two of them are at Boardwalk 20 feet from each other.

They did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasure_Island_(Walt_Disney_World)

The other is on the monorail, and I think someone else said Caribbean Beach had one as well. One in each area would be nice. Again, I don't see and haven't actually heard, that there is enough of an issue with children at these venues to warrant changing the current policy...especially not at 3 of the most family friendly resorts.

As for Pleasure Island...
I know, I meant currently .

ETA- I wish I would have taken photos at the Garden View Lounge. We were the only people there. The majority of time that we passed it the place was empty, at most there were 3 tables that were occupied. Maybe later on it got busy, but not at any times that I noticed. I'm guessing all of the people looking for Lounges, but not able to find a seat, were elsewhere? This was Thanksgiving weekend btw, so it wasn't a "slow time" at the resorts. They lobby was packed all day everyday.