Al Lutz: "Management must stop bending over to pick up pennies as dollars fly over their heads"

[Calvin Coolidge]

I think the points y'all are making about Avatar not proving its sustainable position in pop culture are important, but I also think they might be understating things. I think we're beyond the point of Avatar being irrelevant. It's a punchline now. Everyone saw it, mostly because the 3D was hyped and it was marketed so well, but how many people actually still like it now? How many people talk about Avatar in ways other than making fun of it for the weird blue alien cats, or the Dances With Wolves/Space Pocahontas aspects, or the general self-indulgent goofiness of the whole movie? How many people, shown a picture of Sam Worthington, can identify him as "the guy from Avatar," much less tell you his name?

The most heartbreaking thing about all of this is that Disney already has a bunch of franchises and IP that are as popular, or more popular, and more marketable than Avatar. Star Wars would move more merchandise than Avatar, and Indiana Jones would probably be a better fit for Animal Kingdom (turn Camp Minnie-Mickey into the Amazon Rainforest, or something. Make an Indiana Jones boat ride. Done. Half the budget of Avatarland, doesn't disrupt the park, you get your animal exhibits and your merchandise revenues.)

 

[wedenterprises]

I think the points y'all are making about Avatar not proving its sustainable position in pop culture are important, but I also think they might be understating things. I think we're beyond the point of Avatar being irrelevant. It's a punchline now. Everyone saw it, mostly because the 3D was hyped and it was marketed so well, but how many people actually still like it now? How many people talk about Avatar in ways other than making fun of it for the weird blue alien cats, or the Dances With Wolves/Space Pocahontas aspects, or the general self-indulgent goofiness of the whole movie? How many people, shown a picture of Sam Worthington, can identify him as "the guy from Avatar," much less tell you his name?

The most heartbreaking thing about all of this is that Disney already has a bunch of franchises and IP that are as popular, or more popular, and more marketable than Avatar. Star Wars would move more merchandise than Avatar, and Indiana Jones would probably be a better fit for Animal Kingdom (turn Camp Minnie-Mickey into the Amazon Rainforest, or something. Make an Indiana Jones boat ride. Done. Half the budget of Avatarland, doesn't disrupt the park, you get your animal exhibits and your merchandise revenues.)

This about this for a second though: Who was the real star of that movie? What was the most memorable thing about it?

The environment.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

The environment.

But at what cost? Should Disney really be paying all that extra $$$ for an IP that few care about when they could put that money into fresh new attractions and renovations?? The licensing will be very expensive and a well done generic (read: non IP) mythic creatures land can make just as much money without those fees on top of it.

 

[wedenterprises]

But at what cost? Should Disney really be paying all that extra $$$ for an IP that few care about when they could put that money into fresh new attractions and renovations?? The licensing will be very expensive and a well done generic (read: non IP) mythic creatures land can make just as much money without those fees on top of it.

I'm not saying Pandora would be my first choice, but the IP brand isn't as weak as some are assuming. It IS the highest grossing film of all time. Merchandise sales leave much to be desired, so I'm not sure how Disney will deal with that. However, what they lack in merch sales they could make up for by keeping people in the park longer.

 

[tomman710]

I think the points y'all are making about Avatar not proving its sustainable position in pop culture are important, but I also think they might be understating things. I think we're beyond the point of Avatar being irrelevant. It's a punchline now. Everyone saw it, mostly because the 3D was hyped and it was marketed so well, but how many people actually still like it now? How many people talk about Avatar in ways other than making fun of it for the weird blue alien cats, or the Dances With Wolves/Space Pocahontas aspects, or the general self-indulgent goofiness of the whole movie? How many people, shown a picture of Sam Worthington, can identify him as "the guy from Avatar," much less tell you his name?

The most heartbreaking thing about all of this is that Disney already has a bunch of franchises and IP that are as popular, or more popular, and more marketable than Avatar. Star Wars would move more merchandise than Avatar, and Indiana Jones would probably be a better fit for Animal Kingdom (turn Camp Minnie-Mickey into the Amazon Rainforest, or something. Make an Indiana Jones boat ride. Done. Half the budget of Avatarland, doesn't disrupt the park, you get your animal exhibits and your merchandise revenues.)

I think this is a valid point.

Yes I think Avatar was a terrible movie, no characters, blah blah blah ...

I think the biggest point that TDO and maybe alot of us are missing is that even if you like Avatar or not, whether you think they can still make a great attraction off subpar IP, or even if you like the idea of Avatar ...they have better IP and original ideas available to them. EXAMPLE: Imagine they have an amazing ground breaking ride for Avatar, people love it but imagine the exact same ride themed around Star Wars ... people love it more. Same principle, Forbidden Journey, if it was a generic wizard ride people would still love it but they love it more because its HP, they buy more, they visit more ... Avatar may turn out fine but it could be better.

I think the feeling is they are settling on something substandard because they are attributing box office gross with enthusiasm ... but I don't see how even the most sheltered neophyte could argue that Avatarland would be more successful than say a Star Wars land.

 

[wedenterprises]

I think the feeling is they are settling on something substandard because they are attributing box office gross with enthusiasm ... but I don't see how even the most sheltered neophyte could argue that Avatarland would be more successful than say a Star Wars land.

Hopefully the plan is to have both.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I'm not saying Pandora would be my first choice, but the IP brand isn't as weak as some are assuming. It IS the highest grossing film of all time. Merchandise sales leave much to be desired, so I'm not sure how Disney will deal with that. However, what they lack in merch sales they could make up for by keeping people in the park longer.

I'm just saying that the fees that will be charged aren't worth it.

 

[Condorman]

Al Lutz is a clueless idiot whose prejudicial bias towards all-things Anaheim and his abhorrence towards anything Orlando has been documented time and again. If TDO handed out a million bucks to everyone passing through their turnstiles, he'd complain that the prize wasn't tax-free. His opinions are meaningless, and he has no greater insight into what happens in Florida than he does in SoCal. He has no internal connections. Trust me, I know.

 

[Yankeesfan5]

I'm not saying Pandora would be my first choice, but the IP brand isn't as weak as some are assuming. It IS the highest grossing film of all time. Merchandise sales leave much to be desired, so I'm not sure how Disney will deal with that. However, what they lack in merch sales they could make up for by keeping people in the park longer.

To me, it wouldn't be the highest grossing movie of all time if it weren't for the ridiculous 3D and IMAX upcharges. Therefore, it won't make the impact on the park that a good Star Wars land or an expansion to PIXAR Place would. People identify with those characters and I don't think that Avatar will be a big piece of pop culture by the time this land opens. Every point that Lutz makes in this article, aside from DCA 1.0, is valid.

 

[wedenterprises]

I'm just saying that the fees that will be charged aren't worth it.

Oh I see, sorry. Yeah I'm not sure how much they paid for it... is that info out there?

 

[HMF]

Good luck getting an answer from CountryBearFan.

Here's a hint: Lutz isn't wrong in that article. At all.

And I thought I did not care about the Country Bears before.

 

[wedenterprises]

To me, it wouldn't be the highest grossing movie of all time if it weren't for the ridiculous 3D and IMAX upcharges. Therefore, it won't make the impact on the park that a good Star Wars land or an expansion to PIXAR Place would. People identify with those characters and I don't think that Avatar will be a big piece of pop culture by the time this land opens. Every point that Lutz makes in this article, aside from DCA 1.0, is valid.

Yeah the 3D and ticket prices makes a big difference. But it was still such a marvel to look at. The immersive 3D... if you can do that in an environment and also a ride, then it's going to be pretty amazing.

Though I do agree about the characters. Don't forget there are 2(?) more Avatar movies coming. They could go either way in helping the AvatarLand cause (or further hurting it).

My argument in this or the other thread was that the weakness of the IP could be a strength because it wouldn't overshadow the park's brand or message, like Harry Potter did to IoA.

 

[Yankeesfan5]

Yeah the 3D and ticket prices makes a big difference. But it was still such a marvel to look at. The immersive 3D... if you can do that in an environment and also a ride, then it's going to be pretty amazing.

Though I do agree about the characters. Don't forget there are 2(?) more Avatar movies coming. They could go either way in helping the AvatarLand cause (or further hurting it).

My argument in this or the other thread was that the weakness of the IP could be a strength because it wouldn't overshadow the park's brand or message, like Harry Potter did to IoA.

That's true, and I understand all points. It has to be done well, with good attractions to go with the environment. But if the attractions aren't good and they don't figure out a way to get the environment correct, this land will be a waste of money that could've been used to build something that more people will connect with, like PIXAR, where the land can be immersive and you can pull attractions directly from each movie. Aside from the flight simulator with the Banshees, I don't see attractions coming from the movie. As great as the movie is, I just don't see it as a full land with 2-3 attractions, shopping and dining. It would be cool if they could have a restaurant inside the giant tree.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Oh I see, sorry. Yeah I'm not sure how much they paid for it... is that info out there?

No, you could certainly ask @Lee or @WDW1974 if they have a ballpark idea of it. We don't even officially know much the fees for Harry Potter were. But you can certainly bet that they weren't cheap!

 

[SirLink]

Al Lutz is a clueless idiot whose prejudicial bias towards all-things Anaheim and his abhorrence towards anything Orlando has been documented time and again. If TDO handed out a million bucks to everyone passing through their turnstiles, he'd complain that the prize wasn't tax-free. His opinions are meaningless, and he has no greater insight into what happens in Florida than he does in SoCal. He has no internal connections. Trust me, I know.

I would agree with you IF for ONE it wasn't that Al is the lap dog of Georgie K - and he may end coming to TDO - and SECOND IF the Yeti worked, if 80% of Splash's effects working(and mountain wasn't crumbling), if the infrastructure was modern and not failing, if CoP add updated the last scene to be relevant, if they fixed ToL rather closing trails and putting netting up.

 

[wedenterprises]

That's true, and I understand all points. It has to be done well, with good attractions to go with the environment. But if the attractions aren't good and they don't figure out a way to get the environment correct, this land will be a waste of money that could've been used to build something that more people will connect with, like PIXAR, where the land can be immersive and you can pull attractions directly from each movie. Aside from the flight simulator with the Banshees, I don't see attractions coming from the movie. As great as the movie is, I just don't see it as a full land with 2-3 attractions, shopping and dining. It would be cool if they could have a restaurant inside the giant tree.

And this is a valid point. Maybe Lutz has reason to believe it will NOT be done properly.

 

[wedenterprises]

No, you could certainly ask @Lee or @WDW1974 if they have a ballpark idea of it. We don't even officially know much the fees for Harry Potter were. But you can certainly bet that they weren't cheap!

I'd love to know the numbers for HP, too. But Universal sells SOOO many plastic sticks labeled as "wands" which makes up for it, right? Disney surely has a plan to sell merch or something with Avatar.

 

[Yankeesfan5]

And this is a valid point. Maybe Lutz has reason to believe it will NOT be done properly.

Maybe. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Lee]

Al Lutz is a clueless idiot whose prejudicial bias towards all-things Anaheim and his abhorrence towards anything Orlando has been documented time and again. If TDO handed out a million bucks to everyone passing through their turnstiles, he'd complain that the prize wasn't tax-free. His opinions are meaningless, and he has no greater insight into what happens in Florida than he does in SoCal. He has no internal connections. Trust me, I know.

Yeah...good luck selling that...

 

[jmb2676]

Al Lutz is a clueless idiot whose prejudicial bias towards all-things Anaheim and his abhorrence towards anything Orlando has been documented time and again. If TDO handed out a million bucks to everyone passing through their turnstiles, he'd complain that the prize wasn't tax-free. His opinions are meaningless, and he has no greater insight into what happens in Florida than he does in SoCal. He has no internal connections. Trust me, I know.

I don't necessarily agree with everything that Lutz says either, but what part of this quote about Orlando is untrue???
"The biggest problem may be that this appears to be the only major project on the immediate horizon for a resort that desperately needs to be freshened up with more new attractions and a major investment in infrastructure. Walt Disney World over the next decade will face some formidable competition from neighboring attractions. Queue enhancements, while nice, can’t compete with new rides. The Resort’s bus transportation system is in dire need of an upgrade or reconfiguration throughout the property. Current management must stop bending over to pick up pennies as dollars fly over their heads."