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Aesthetic Analysis of Themed Design
- Thread starter wishesjake
- Start date
Lee
Adventurer
Ok.
I like Main St.
The music is nice, and it has a quaint, old-timey feel to it.
:shrug:
There. That pretty much sums up Main St.
Thank goodness the designers of AK thought more deeply about it than Eisner did.
I'm pretty sure 100% of the members of this message board feel the exact same way. The goal of this thread is to ask why.
SirNim
Well-Known Member
There certainly is a connotation of ignorance to the word naive, but then we must ask why Bucky chose that quotation as his personal motto. linky Was Bucky asking us to "Dare to be ignorant?" In his Synergetics he is telling us to dare to make connections, to take one seemingly unrelated path branching off from another. The fact that there is a series of discoveries already made, catalogued, and dissected does not preclude the possibility of infinitely more discoveries waiting to be made. In modern culture, cynicism is the prevailing attitude. Even though we keep discovering new species, building taller buildings, and faster computers, we still regard the intrinsic nature of our society and our morals as fixed. This is "just the way things are." How many times have we heard that? "Don't bother, that's just the way things are." What about the way things should be? I think that is what Bucky is hinting at, and what Main Street has been built in steel and glass to show.
MousDad
New Member
I like the thread and the discussion, but I disagree with the OP's initial premise.
I don't think the theme of MSUSA is freedom. I think the underlying design theme of the land is nostalgia. Hence the strict compliance to a very narrow period as source for the design and kinetic elements.
I could buy freedom as the underlying theme of the American Adventure pavilion in WS, but not MSUSA.
I don't think the theme of MSUSA is freedom. I think the underlying design theme of the land is nostalgia. Hence the strict compliance to a very narrow period as source for the design and kinetic elements.
I could buy freedom as the underlying theme of the American Adventure pavilion in WS, but not MSUSA.
I think ultimately we are dealing with semantics here. Is MSUSA optimitstic? Or is it naive? Whatever word we use we can agree about the principle message of the area.
Also, I think it would benefit the discussion if we would move away from the intrinsic message of Main Street now that we have somewhat defined it and try to figure out how Main Street portrays that message through elements of themed design.
If we move on to that subject, it may not alienate other members as much as the previous philosophical observations. We can start discussing details of Main Street and not abstract ideas.
Sorry, I have not communicated my opinion properly. I think the theme of MSUSA is Idealized America.
However we may disagree on the finer points because although nostalgia is a big part of MSUSA, I don't think it is the core meaning behind it's inclusion in the Magic Kingdom style parks.
Walt wanted us to look back nostalgically at MSUSA, but why did he want us to look back? What was important about it? I believe that he used nostalgia as a tool to get us to see how Idealized America would look.
To me, nostalgia is the tool being used to deliver the message.
Now I agree with the American Adventure being about Liberty. It's position in WS indicates that the American Adventure is saying "Look at us. Look what Liberty and Freedom hath wrought!"
SirNim
Well-Known Member
Details in the theming: Music, first and foremost. That music is legendary for setting quite a mood. Turn-of-the-century jazz, ragtime, popular music. Heavily structured, much like classical music. Bursting with major (happy) chords, with only a few minor (sad) chords thrown in from time to time, generally around the bridges of these songs. Generally meaning, the songs start happy, stay happy, get just a little melancholy in the middle, then get really happy again and finish happy. Seems to fit with the Main Street paradigm.
Train station. Trains are motion, movement, brute force visualized. Trains are where Mickey Mouse was born—and the Rhapsody in Blue. Click, clack, click, clack, click, clack, Casey Jr. comin' round the track. Trains manifested the destiny of Manifest Destiny. Trains really allowed America to stretch from Sea to Shining Sea (despite the fact that "A Mari usque ad Mare" is actually Canada's national motto) in a cohesively cultural way. Trains represent the great mechanical Era of Industry, beasts of metal upon metal rails, a shiny network of possibility. The Great Unifier, the Railroad. It is only fitting that that should be the first sight one sees not only upon entering Main Street USA, but also upon entering the entirety of the Magic Kingdom. I love it.
Train station. Trains are motion, movement, brute force visualized. Trains are where Mickey Mouse was born—and the Rhapsody in Blue. Click, clack, click, clack, click, clack, Casey Jr. comin' round the track. Trains manifested the destiny of Manifest Destiny. Trains really allowed America to stretch from Sea to Shining Sea (despite the fact that "A Mari usque ad Mare" is actually Canada's national motto) in a cohesively cultural way. Trains represent the great mechanical Era of Industry, beasts of metal upon metal rails, a shiny network of possibility. The Great Unifier, the Railroad. It is only fitting that that should be the first sight one sees not only upon entering Main Street USA, but also upon entering the entirety of the Magic Kingdom. I love it.
Wow, nice post.
Music is definitely a huge factor. As you mentioned, the music is light and peppy but not overtly sugary. It always throws me out of the Main Street mood when I here the music during the street car show. To here about "a kingdom full of endless dreams for every girl and boy" takes me off Main Street and puts me in a Disney commercial. The music is supposed to be relaxed and happy not in-your-face-magic-sunshine-sugarpops drivel. Anyway, music is a huge contributer because it makes the guest feel relaxed and happy which is the goal of Main Street to make you feel at home.
I can't say anything about the trains because you said it all: manifest destiny, a true example of Americana, Liberty conquers all, etc.
The train is a symbol of America and therefore must be a part of Main Street.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
Yeah, this about sums up this thread :shrug:...
Some individuals actually like to think about things they enjoy and discuss in a critical/theoretical way with others who may also share the same interests and also care to analysis the same topic. If you don't like that, not posting in this thread will speak louder than an image made by someone else. If you enjoy Disney but want to talk about simpler things there are a hundred billion other threads asking "what is the most magical x?" where you can post. A thread like this is most welcome to others who enjoy digging a little deeper and I appreciate the OP for starting this and the creators of Widen Your World and Passport to Dreams for their work too.
I'm sure you'd find such books as "Planet Simpson" to be intellectual jokes but they are enjoyed by others for a reason. If you can't/don't want to comprehend why you can just ignore us as it doesn't hinder discussion or distract you from what you think is important. If this much thinking hurts your head so much that you must post MS paint altered Disney clipart to feel better, I'm sure there are gifs and flash games to amuse you elsewhere online. :wave:
Back on topic, my opinion of WDW's MS is that it has little to do with Walt himself and more and collection of values and concepts that have shaped the quintessential nostalgic view of the 1890-1910 context in which MS exists.
I recall reading a quote form someone who remarked upon seeing WDW's MS that it felt like walking into a production of Meredith Wilson's The Music Man. Indeed, MS looks more like a movie set from the 60s (IMO most like the one form Hello, Dolly!) than any picture of Marcelline Missouri or even the original MS. This is likely a combination of the requirements of the parks design (bigger castle=bigger everything), the lessons learned from previous constructions, the freedom to spend more and likely the public's shift in attitude towards what Turn of the century America supposedly looked like probably from it's depiction found in movies made after Disneyland opened (which caused local communities to rethink their old buildings).
MS in terms of values is certainly not naive, but more a combination of nostalgia, and more importantly, comfort. Remember that MS is a public place that exists in modern times despite trying to emulate the idea of another time. The people who walk the street today are unlikely to associate well with the time period represented (the was genuine nostalgia for older guests when Disneyland opened but nobody is alive now from that time) so what makes MS endure despite nostalgia not really begin applicable for most guests now? It's comforting nature. This comes from all the senses begin considered in it's design. The colour pallet is soft and features a broad range of colours, the music is upbeat and even the smells of candies and cookies add to the feeling of MS begin a "pretty" and "really nice place". Everybody can appreciate and enjoy the sensory aspects of the street and think of the place as begin an experience instead of a large strip mall (which is likely why large strip/indoor malls have tried to copy it's design principles). It's sense of security from begin in a gated park also elevates this feeling of comfort which is universally appealing and that's why people still love MS after all this time. It's safe it's pretty, we feel we be happy without feeling ridiculous, it's great.
As for what modern Disney has done to MS it's clearly affected parts of it's perfection. While it's true that every business is booming it's clear that Emporium owner Osh Popum (name comes from Burl Ives character in Summer Magic, an example of Disney representing it's own takes on this "Old Time-E" nostalgic concept) is beating everyone else. So much so that he has the capital to wipe out the flower shop, force the barbers to move and get rid of an entire city side street to build an Edwardian building to show how hip, rich, trendy he is (now that's America!). Also the use of Suffragettes as walk around characters also disturbs the concept of the "Jim Dear and Darling" relationship the citizens supposedly have. While Suffragettes were used in Mary Poppins, it contributed to the story there (Mom focuses on rights movement so she ignores her kids) since it doesn't contribute to MS's story it hurts the seemingly perfect and intentionally un-PC (though not in a direct and therefore insulting way) tranquility of the couples relationships that supposedly exist behind the facades. Real world problems should not be addressed in the MS context which is why there is no hospital, funeral home, school etc.
kungfoosally
New Member
*tip toes backwards out of room slowly
hemloc
Member
EpcotServo
Well-Known Member
Let's talk about Animal Kingdom, that's a park that's more dripping with thought-provoking Theme and in my opinion the best park in terms of moving through three dimensional story.
Maybe a Servo Pop Quiz!
Q: A bench in Harambe Village has a date inscribed on it, and the Swahili word for "Freedom".
What does this allude too?
Maybe a Servo Pop Quiz!
Q: A bench in Harambe Village has a date inscribed on it, and the Swahili word for "Freedom".
What does this allude too?
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
:lol: Maybe he pulled a "Walt" and Pollenated the idea to WDI.
"In layman's terms, please, Dr. Lair."- Body Wars.:lol:
That's the general connotation of it, yes. I think that we are trying to look for hidden depth and symbolism here.
Lee, you once described Disneyland to me as being in the magic "thick".
I think that's what we want to talk about here for MK...*needs DL....
*Interesting! Honestly, I could see it as both. It's a representation of a simpler time(Nostalgia) and in that simpler time, we are a nation reveling in it's Freedoms. The Turn of the Century was a grand time for America. We were just emerging as a world power, we were industrializing, ad becoming more modern. Perhaps it is THAT freedom that is represented.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
While freedom to do and create is certainly represented in MS, don't forget that optimism and success and integral parts of it's themes. Anybody could in theory start up a business then, but MS says that you're guaranteed to succeed if you try. Which contradicts reality, but ads to the appeal of the street.