A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...

[GiveMeTheMusic]

People seem to only dislike Frozen Ever After because it goes against the "original" concept of the park. Sorry, but it's not like it's sacrilegious or anything, it wasn't Walt's original plan anyway. What bothers me about FEA is that they didn't take the time to update the ride system. I know they wanted it out as quick as possible, but this will cost them in the years to come, especially since it's already causing problems. Say what you want about Maelstrom, but it was not a classic ride. Equivalent to the current Imagination which does have its own fans, but again, not a classic.

The thing is, when you disregard theme, it's no longer a theme park. It's in the name.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I guess I will just never understand the attitude that continues to complain about something that is a done deal. It's not changing, it's not going away, we don't like the placement, but everyone needs to move on. Sorry, but that's the deal.

Both fans of EPCOT and of Frozen got the short end of the stick. EPCOT's integrity is undermined (Frozen in WS is akin to Baloo the Bear showing up in Pirates of the Caribbean), while Disney now has to serve a massive demand and even bigger expectation with a low capacity ride in a what is at best a semi-Frozen area.

If Tokyo and Anaheim open killer Frozen areas, with high capacity, the issue may be raised again whether Frozen shouldn't get a presence elsewhere.

Poor EPCOT though will never recover, it will get worse, sitting on the brink of being turned into superhero princess land, which on a spreadsheet covers multiple demographics so well, including the diehard fan, who will forgive everything because Dreamfinder returns in Imagination 3.0.

 

[Brer Oswald]

The thing is, when you disregard theme, it's no longer a theme park. It's in the name.

Epcot is clustered theme-wise already. I know it's not ideal or realistic, but Frozen fits the theme of Norway. Again, not realistically, but in the same way Pinocchio would fit Italy, or Three Caballeros Mexico. Not every ride has to directly teach you something.

 

[lazyboy97o]

People seem to only dislike Frozen Ever After because it goes against the "original" concept of the park. Sorry, but it's not like it's sacrilegious or anything, it wasn't Walt's original plan anyway. What bothers me about FEA is that they didn't take the time to update the ride system. I know they wanted it out as quick as possible, but this will cost them in the years to come, especially since it's already causing problems. Say what you want about Maelstrom, but it was not a classic ride. Equivalent to the current Imagination which does have its own fans, but again, not a classic.

Frozen Ever After is a bad attraction all on its own, even without the issue of its placement. The changes to the pavilion are also poor on their own.

Theme is not only valid if it can be tied to Walt Disney.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Epcot is clustered theme-wise already. I know it's not ideal or realistic, but Frozen fits the theme of Norway. Again, not realistically, but in the same way Pinocchio would fit Italy, or Three Caballeros Mexico. Not every ride has to directly teach you something.

Pinocchio and The Three Caballeros take place in Italy and Mexico, respectively. Frozen takes place in a fictional kingdom that was partially inspired by Norway, but is not Norway. It doesn't belong in Norway, it belongs in Fantasyland or DHS. Just like Aladdin doesn't belong in Morocco (so far off the mark), but Ratatouille makes sense in France. If we're going to go down the road of shoving in cartoon rides because of the countries they take place in, Frozen doesn't fit the bill.

But it was the cheapest way they could think of to get a ride going, so that's why they did it. They could have done the right thing and taken the time required, but they didn't. As a result, every other Disney resort will at some point get very nice, well done, in-theme Frozen attractions. WDW, again, got the short end of the stick.

 

[Bairstow]

That's not true at all. Morocco is the only pavilion with active participation from the host country's government. Yes, I am bitter about the placement. I'm terribly sorry that you have no concept of themed design or (apparently) what the purpose of World Showcase is. Belittling me isn't going to change the fact that Frozen doesn't belong there at all.

Frozen totally belongs in the World Showcase... in the Denmark Pavillion.

 

[DinoInstitute]

Frozen Ever After is a bad attraction all on its own, even without the issue of its placement. The changes to the pavilion are also poor on their own.

Theme is not only valid if it can be tied to Walt Disney.

Just curious on your thoughts on Frozenstrom just as an attraction in a vacuum ignoring placement? I think personally that it is a pretty good attraction on its own, with nice effects, sets, and a simple but fun story.

 

[asianway]

Maybe... but hasn't Disney already tested the legal waters by having the characters appear there years ago?

Curiously they were promoted on the park blog while dr strange was not.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Frozen Ever After is a bad attraction all on its own, even without the issue of its placement. The changes to the pavilion are also poor on their own.

Theme is not only valid if it can be tied to Walt Disney.

Your point about theme being tied to Walt Disney is definitely true, after all, we've seen many great thematic lands and attractions in the last 50 years. FEA shouldn't be completely counted out though. It's animatronics and effects are remarkable, although the attraction as a whole is lazy. It's still an improvement over maelstrom in my opinion.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

I

Both fans of EPCOT and of Frozen got the short end of the stick. EPCOT's integrity is undermined (Frozen in WS is akin to Baloo the Bear showing up in Pirates of the Caribbean), while Disney now has to serve a massive demand and even bigger expectation with a low capacity ride in a what is at best a semi-Frozen area.

If Tokyo and Anaheim open killer Frozen areas, with high capacity, the issue may be raised again whether Frozen shouldn't get a presence elsewhere.

Poor EPCOT though will never recover, it will get worse, sitting on the brink of being turned into superhero princess land, which on a spreadsheet covers multiple demographics so well, including the diehard fan, who will forgive everything because Dreamfinder returns in Imagination 3.0.

It seems like it's a Food and Wine park

 

[The Empress Lilly]

It seems like it's a Food and Wine park

Food and Swine

 

[LuvtheGoof]

That's not true at all. Morocco is the only pavilion with active participation from the host country's government. Yes, I am bitter about the placement. I'm terribly sorry that you have no concept of themed design or (apparently) what the purpose of World Showcase is. Belittling me isn't going to change the fact that Frozen doesn't belong there at all.

Considering I lived there and was at the opening of EPCOT, I know exactly what it was. That ship has sailed and likely never coming back. I may not like it, but I'm a realist about what I can change and what I can't. So instead of getting my blood pressure up over it, I enjoy the attraction for what it is.

And apologies, I never meant to belittle anyone.

 

[WDW1974]

Leave for a few days ... and the inmates trash the asylum. I'd love to catch up ... back on page 40-something, but I have no desire tor arguing with trolls who want to rip Walt (if someone is blatantly trolling, report them to the mods, folks, unless you want to read more crap and less substance) and argue about films etc.

I'm planning on being around through the earnings call because I love watching people with unnatural connections to BRANDS and corporations acting like Cubs fans after 108 years.

BTW, make sure when you see Dr. Strange that you stay until after the credits for the scene with Thor because every Marvel film is simply a preview of the next.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Say what you want about Maelstrom, but it was not a classic ride. Equivalent to the current Imagination which does have its own fans, but again, not a classic.

Current Imagination fans are more of a "Better then the crap they tried in '99" and "A decent placeholder until Dreamfinder comes back" sort. Maelstrom had more of a cult following/meme worthiness then that.

 

[ford91exploder]

Leave for a few days ... and the inmates trash the asylum. I'd love to catch up ... back on page 40-something, but I have no desire tor argue with trolls who want to rip Walt (if someone is blatantly trolling, report them to the mods, folks, unless you want to read more crap and less substance) and argue about films.

I'm planning on being around through the earnings call because I love watching people with unnatural connections to BRANDS and corporations acting like Cubs fans after 108 years.

BTW, make sure when you see Dr. Strange that you stay until after the credits for the scene with Thor because every Marvel film is simply a preview of the next.

Dr Strange, How strange I really don't want to see it...

 

[MisterPenguin]

Maelstrom had the weight of human history behind it.

Maelstrom did leave me with the question: What ever happened to Norway's indigenous troll population?

Do you have the historical answer to that? Or should I check with Odin?

 

[WDW1974]

So back on topic ...

WDW debuted a new street show this weekend. Curiously, the company that held a press conference for new benches didn't make any sort of announcement. Nothing on the Disney Parks Blog or (official) Twitter, nothing even written on maps.

Curiouser, despite being an IP-driven one-man show, the character's name and source doesn't appear on any signage.

And most interesting and relevant to this thread--while many (including I assume @WDW1974) seem to think this character's status is clear, the Distinguished Competition clearly thinks otherwise. If they are right--and their contract lawyers have beat the Mouse's in every dispute so far--WDW's legal right to use the Guardians is far from clear as well.

A more Machiavellian mind that mine might suggest this whole thing was a feint to address that very question before dumping any more $$ into R&D.

First, thanks for an on topic post. I'd rather discuss 'that dude' Derek Burgan's Disney outlet (he buys way too much Disney crap, btw) columns here, then what the box office of tent pole films means today.

I wouldn't jump to any conclusion about Dr. Strange. If he couldn't be used at WDW, do you think he'd be there now making appearances? I don't know the status of the character. I was told he could be used by people, but no one who I would consider to have deep knowledge of the ins and outs. There is no clearer sign that he can be used than the fact he is being used. I don't see Comcast filing suit and seeking an immediate removal, do you?

Why isn't Disney publicizing it more? (Beyond the fact that it is small scale and they don't even have a themed location to hold this.) I can't say. Might it have to do with ongoing talks between the two? (None of which will result in Marvel giving up its rights, but might allow Disney a bit more wiggle room on small things ... like thus.) I dunno. Disney can also be very slow about talking about some things. You may recall that I had the entire SDL menu for opening day in mid-2013 and out here a few months later and it wasn't until two years later that Disney confirmed what was going into the park/resort. I don't have much faith in Dr. Blondie and Co to do much of anything beyond throwing cupcake parties for bloggingwhores.

I can flat out say that Disney can use the GotG at WDW. It is absolutely only an issue to UNI fanbois (who should focus on the disaster that Beijing is starting out as ... familiar to anyone who watched SDL's development) who want to see Disney down. The reality is none of these attractions would have even been blue skied for WDW if they couldn't be used. Disney is wasteful, but not THAT wasteful.

But, believe me, if the GotG coming to WDW mean the end of ToT or UoE, then I hope I am so wrong on this. Only want them in Bob Iger's IP MAGIC park as a NEW BUILD.

 

[WDW1974]

I have to admit hearing that all the bloggers/Lifestylers who just had to be at the MK for the first performance of Once Upon a Time last night and got soaked and not great pics and video filled me with laughter. That means, they have to choose between seeing it tonight or going to the last night of HHNs (have I ripped UNI enough for this? Halloween ended Monday night!) or a Saturday of spending $134 on tiny food samples and booze on trash cans at EPCOT. What tough life decisions, right?

BTW, heard they butchered the TDL import by destroying the Alice segment to throw in Frozen because they really don't have enough of that property at WDW.

 

[WDW1974]

The other pavilions, except Morocco, have private sponsors or no sponsors. And, bad design simply existing is not grounds for accepting or praising it.

Around here it is.

 

[WDW1974]

So don't go. Problem solved. Simple.

And the lines will be shorter for me and my family and ... isn't that how it goes?