A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...

[MotherOfBirds]

Let me tell you a story, about an attraction called "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea".

Awwwwwwwwww too soon.

 

[doctornick]

I feel like the only characters that would work are Tony Stark and Hank Pym....the rest is too alien for a park about human ingenuity. With those two you could at least pretend that their shenanigans have a basis in the real world.

Well, Reed Richards/the Fantastic Four would certainly fit. The basic premise of their early adventures were about exploration and discovery he's probably the most science-y guy in Marvel. Of course, much like Stark and Pym, he'd be off limits for Disney in Florida, unless there is a deal with Uni that allows previously unavailable characters to be used. (Off the cuff thought -- you could easily re-theme M:S to the FF exploration space if you wanted -- it even has four positions in the cockpit.)

We haven't see it in the movies yet, but Black Panther's Wakanda is supposed to be an advanced technological nation, albeit isolated. Then again, also a character that would not be available.

Also, time travel is a staple of comic books and you do some interesting historical/futuristic attraction based on the notion of fighting the likes of Kang the Conqueror.

Beyond all that, the most obvious -- and certainly available -- option for an Epcot appropriate Marvel IP is Big Hero 6. You can easily have a robotics themed area (with or without a medical themed aspect) with Hiro and Baymax.

 

[doctornick]

I think it's now generally accepted that the overall theme of EPCOT will need to change to better suit the sorts of attractions that more easily coordinate with merchandise sales and Disney's larger media efforts.

I cannot fathom a world without it, but how can Spaceship Earth survive in a park with lots of Marvel IP that doesn't fit in with the theme of Epcot?

I think it is worth noting that Epcot doesn't have to fully change. It's possible to keep part of FW with a "futuristic" theme and ideal (I prefer a name switch to something like Discoveryland for FW, but that's minor) while having part of FW "break off" into a different concept/land. There's no obligation for Epcot to have to be divided/labelled in the same way that it historically has been.

If they are really thinking about some Marvel area for Epcot, they could make Energy and WoL into such a theme (perhaps also including M:S or the northern part of Innoventions East) and that be separate from the rest of FW.

I'm skeptical as to how well they would integrate Marvel into the park as a whole -- if it is even on the table -- but you could use Marvel characters to "entertain, inform and inspire" if there was a will to do so.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I think it is worth noting that Epcot doesn't have to full change. It's possible to keep part of FW with a "futuristic" theme and ideal (I prefer a switch to something like Discoveryland for FW, but that's minor) while having part of FW "break off" into a different concept/land. There's no obligation for Epcot to have to be divided/labelled in the same way that it historically has been.

If they are really thinking about some Marvel area for Epcot, they could make Energy and WoL into such a theme (perhaps also including M:S or the northern part of Innoventions East) and that be separate from the rest of FW.

Just retheme Test Track while you're at it

 

[1023]

Seeing as how they could possibly be re-theming the ToT, it would not surprise me one bit if RnR were to follow, creating an entire Marvel Land. Up that one side of the park you would then have ML, TSL and SWL - 3 IP based areas within what will become Disney's IP Park. Bonus for Disney, since it would be overlays as opposed to brand new builds, it could be done much cheaper. Not so much of a bonus for the many die hard fans out there though.

You are on a scary (but correct) path.

*1023*

 

[Disneyhead'71]

That's never really been the issue. Just what marvel IP can be used. As more IP has been introduced not covered by the contact then the choice for WDW has grown.

Expect changes to the original contract anyway. Not that the details may ever be fully made public.

Epcot v3 seems to be the long term home of Marvel IP in WDW. DHS may have minor diversions but the meat is proposed to be in the second gate.

So Disney has figured out that 80% of WDW fans give zero Flips about consistent theming and all they really want is more "Magic Kingdom!"

Well, Iger does likes pleasing the fans.

 

[flynnibus]

Things aren't always the way they should be.

Well some customers aren't willing to just bendover and keep giving them money for inferior product... They can try to figure that one out.

I think Disney fans' often fail to realize how tepid a lot of the contemporary reaction to EPCOT was

I was there... so I do realize. But that really has nothing to do with the idea of 'if you are going to change it... then change it' and not this half-azzed version we have been fed... and people like yourself preaching 'oh well, we should just love it for what it is'

Screw that. I don't owe the company anything. If they put out junk, no one should go 'aww.. lets love it because they had the heart to give us something'. I'm a customer and fan... not a blind dependent.

 

[LukeS7]

You are on a scary (but correct) path.

*1023*

So are you suggesting that there are plans for DHS and Epcot that involve Marvel?

 

[Disneyhead'71]

That's why Africa is better than Diagon Alley.

Better at what?

 

[doctornick]

So Disney has figured out that 80% of WDW fans give zero Flips about consistent theming and all they really want is more "Magic Kingdom!"

Still never understand comments like this. If people wanted "more" Magic Kingdom, that would mean less theming not more. The castle parks have far more cohesive theming in their lands than the "other" parks in the worldwide docket. Personally, I'd welcome "another Magic Kingdom" at WDW -- the secondary park that is most like a castle park in terms of theming is TDS and I think most on here would love to have another gate in Florida that is of what scale and quality.

What you are saying is that people want is "more IPs" but that is far different from being some sort of copy of the castle parks.

The one way I do think that people want "more Magic Kingdom" though is that they want the other parks to have a lot more rides than they do.

 

[lazyboy97o]

think Disney fans' often fail to realize how tepid a lot of the contemporary reaction to EPCOT was. Nerdy kids like me loved it, but most people weren't after edutainment then, and certainly aren't now. There's a reason reason Disney hasn't cloned that park or even sections of it elsewhere on the planet- it was never really what the public wanted.

The response was not tepid. EPCOT Center was the scapegoat in the rewriting of Disney's post-Walt downfall by those more dedicated to the film studio, starting the ongoing view that themed enterment must follow cinema. Even then, WestCOT and even Disney's America were in the vein of EPCOT Center. Then there are the museums that have all embraced the EPCOT Center model. The issue is not a lack of audience but Disney's growing unwillingness to bother with such an audience.

 

[Bairstow]

Well some customers aren't willing to just bendover and keep giving them money for inferior product... They can try to figure that one out.



I was there... so I do realize. But that really has nothing to do with the idea of 'if you are going to change it... then change it' and not this half-azzed version we have been fed... and people like yourself preaching 'oh well, we should just love it for what it is'

Screw that. I don't owe the company anything. If they put out junk, no one should go 'aww.. lets love it because they had the heart to give us something'. I'm a customer and fan... not a blind dependent.

I'm not saying anyone has to love it.

I'm just saying that people like us would be happier the sooner we accept the changes- most people will be.

That's the weird thing about being a theme park fan- parks are very widely enjoyed entertainments and Disney's are becoming more popular and more profitable all the time, even though, subjectively, they trend in a lot of ways to being more and more artistically comprised.

Assuming you see theme park design an artform, you have to also understand that theme parks aren't an artform that can be enjoyed like music or literature or movies- You can just buy a blue ray set of Kubrick and Kurosawa if you're disgusted with what's in the theaters now. With parks, though, you either have to learn to appreciate what's operating and open now or just give up on the artform and stay home until the trends change again.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm not saying anyone has to love it.

I'm just saying that people like us would be happier the sooner we accept the changes- most people will be.

I don't know about you... but I don't pay a 30-40% premium and dedicate my resources of time and money into things that 'Id be happier to just accept'. Disney is not the only game in town for entertainment and recreation. I don't need to accept Disney's changes to be happier in life. If they throw away what made the product and history interesting to me... I'll be 'happier' to just move on.

That's the weird thing about being a theme park fan- parks are very widely enjoyed entertainments and Disney's are becoming more popular and more profitable all the time, even though, subjectively, they trend in a lot of ways to being more and more artistically comprised.

How popular something is.. is not a metric for quality or enjoyment. It can be artificial (hey, its the only place in town), it can be forced (we all must goto the DMV), it can be dollar driven, it can be legacy, it can be marketing, it can be lots of things.

With parks, though, you either have to learn to appreciate what's operating and open now or just give up on the artform and stay home until the trends change again.

No, I'll just go elsewhere. Which is why our last Disney vacations were on a boat, not WDW. Why I've done WDW and Disneyland with just my wife instead of my whole family. Why our vacations have been to many different places and things like my reading or research has been into other eras of Disney.. not the last 20 years worth of Disney.

Spending your leisure time with something 'because its all we have' is a horrible way to find enjoyment. Expand your horizons.

 

[Bairstow]

I don't know about you... but I don't pay a 30-40% premium and dedicate my resources of time and money into things that 'Id be happier to just accept'. Disney is not the only game in town for entertainment and recreation. I don't need to accept Disney's changes to be happier in life. If they throw away what made the product and history interesting to me... I'll be 'happier' to just move on.



How popular something is.. is not a metric for quality or enjoyment. It can be artificial (hey, its the only place in town), it can be forced (we all must goto the DMV), it can be dollar driven, it can be legacy, it can be marketing, it can be lots of things.



No, I'll just go elsewhere. Which is why our last Disney vacations were on a boat, not WDW. Why I've done WDW and Disneyland with just my wife instead of my whole family. Why our vacations have been to many different places and things like my reading or research has been into other eras of Disney.. not the last 20 years worth of Disney.

Spending your leisure time with something 'because its all we have' is a horrible way to find enjoyment. Expand your horizons.

Yet you're still interested enough to read and write on this forum?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

What you are saying is that people want is "more IPs" but that is far different from being some sort of copy of the castle parks.

Exactly. Magic Kingdom does not have lands based on single IPs, nor was it built with rides mostly based on movies.

What we're getting is Disney's take on the Universal Studios model.

 

[flynnibus]

Yet you're still interested enough to read and write on this forum?

Do you comprehend cost vs return?

I also think to be able to judge something, you should be versed in the subject. I think you'd be a fool to say you wouldn't goto some place because of info that is no longer relevant and or representative. To follow Disney's trends as leader in this industry, you must know what they are up to. This is one of the best places on the net to do so.

When I make my next trip to the Cayman Islands... it won't be because I was happy to just accept what the Caymans offered.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Yet you're still interested enough to read and write on this forum?

This forum (heck, these threads) cover a wide variety of topics, including, but not limited to, other aspects of TWDC. There's plenty of topics to be invested in beyond what's happening to Disney's Florida resort and even then the opinions of the members here make, if nothing else, for an entertaining read.

I can't speak for others, but even though I haven't been to WDW in two years, it's still enjoyable to follow the news, construction photos and posts by the members and administrators of this forum/website.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

A lot of Marvel properties do have a lot to do with science. If done well, I could see some Marvel characters being added to Epcot in a way that fits very well. I dont necessarily know how Guardians makes sense (but I'm willing to reserve judgement till we know more details). BUT if Marvel is gonna play ball with Universal, maybe Iron man could be coming.

I vould totally see the Wonders of Life Pavilion becoming the Stark Expo. Make the big "lobby" area like a new innoventions (even try to get real companiespresenting new technologies mixed in with fake companies lile Pym tech and Oscorp). Add the Iron Man ride from Hong Kong or build a new one. Maybe have some other Avengers ride too themed around the Stark Expo. Or an Ant Man play area sorts like the old Honey I shrunk the kids play area.

Stark Expo could be a fun mix of edutainment and a celebration of scientific progress in the lobby and then some exciting rides off to the sides.

I don't think Marvel's pseudo-science is a good fit.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Things aren't always the way they should be.

I think Disney fans' often fail to realize how tepid a lot of the contemporary reaction to EPCOT was. Nerdy kids like me loved it, but most people weren't after edutainment then, and certainly aren't now. There's a reason reason Disney hasn't cloned that park or even sections of it elsewhere on the planet- it was never really what the public wanted.

And yet WestCOT was what DL looked at for their second gate throughout the nineties. Then 1994 happened, when Eisner was abducted and replaced by an acid-drooling baby-eating alien, who subsequently deemed WestCOT too expensive, building DCA instead. Look how that turned out.... :lookarou

 

[flyerjab]

You are on a scary (but correct) path.

*1023*

The next question in my mind is if something like that were to happen, what would occur in the space between TSL and a ML, aka Animation Courtyard? Somehow I do not see that remaining.