A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...

the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Tim Delaney on WDI Budgets:

"But you really need.. I mean one of the problems we had to be quite honest with you, we were building Disney's California Adventure at the same time they were building Tokyo DisneySeas and they were two extreme ends of the spectrum. ... I'm going to give you my personal opinion on this. I think that those are two extreme ends of the spectrum and I don't think either end of the spectrum is business that we should be in. I think we should we certainly need more money than Disney's California Adventure had and probably not as much money as Tokyo DisneySea had."

The Season Pass Podcast #116 - The Tim Delaney Interview Part 3: California Adventure and Hong Kong Disneyland
 
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rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
So to be clear:

You can't compare Indy's total cost to FJ's ride system cost.

Indy costing $90 million for the entire project in 1995 would be closer to $150-180 million today.
Forbidden Journey was $150+ million (Martin's claim of $90 million is ONLY for the ride system).
Similar costs no matter how you slice it.

Cars Land cost $260 million, and you got an e-ticket, 2 minor flat rides and several stores/restaurants.
Diagon Alley cost $360 million, and you got an e-ticket, a transport ride and several stores/restaurants.

Again, very easy/obvious examples of Disney overspending and under delivering are all over the place. But Indy vs FJ or even Carsland vs Diagon are extremely bad examples.
 
truecoat

truecoat

Well-Known Member
Rogue One twitter impressions are through the roof! I think it's going to beat the box office predictions. I had medium to low expectations for this movie but hat has changed.

Here is a twitter response by Germain Lussier formerly of SlashFilm and now at I09 and Gizmodo.

Holy crap did I love Rogue One. It’s gonna take days to wipe the smile off my face. So many surprises and so much fun. Get excited.
 
BrerJon

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
Direwolf27 said:
They're planning to build 3 parks in 2 years??? :eek::eek::eek:
I understand that DreamPlay will be inside, but still.
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DreamPlay sounds just like the Shrek experience in London, with basic 3d films, small rides and character meets. I suspect all these 'parks' are on the scale of the I-Drive 360 attractions, as opposed to being full day themed experiences with tons of different attractions within them.
 
brb1006

brb1006

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder said:
Tim Delaney on WDI Budgets:

"But you really need.. I mean one of the problems we had to be quite honest with you, we were building Disney's California Adventure at the same time they were building Tokyo DisneySeas and they were two extreme ends of the spectrum. ... I'm going to give you my personal opinion on this. I think that those are two extreme ends of the spectrum and I don't think either end of the spectrum is business that we should be in. I think we should we certainly need more money than Disney's California Adventure had and probably not as much money as Tokyo DisneySea had."

The Season Pass Podcast #116 - The Tim Delaney Interview Part 3: California Adventure and Hong Kong Disneyland
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The Season Pass Podcast needs more love
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
lazyboy97o said:
Reports seem to have the US version tracking north of $250 million. Where is all of that going?
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Financially dodgy companies all have a division where they hide the losses by transfer payments to that organization, That department will also be saddled with 'expenses' which have NOTHING to do with that departments function which is why they are so expensive when they bill out services.

I suspect at Disney that department is WDI which is one of the only rational reasons WDI is SO expensive relative to the rest of the industry this is especially true since nearly all of the 'Big Name' Imagineers and their staff have been kicked to the curb and WDI no longer has the in house industrial capacity to internally produce things and AA design/production has been outsourced to Garner Holt. So what DOES today's WDI do exactly which costs SO MUCH???

So in the normal course of business WDI should have become MORE competitive with the industry at large yet they are increasingly uncompetitive to the point where it's becoming a bone of contention with OLC and other non-Disney entities.
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Cletus said:
The words, Harry Potter, Universal and "screwed" don't belong in any discussion. No matter the order. ;)
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Not even, "the shops in Universal's Harry Potter area screwed my wallet?" ;)
GiveMeTheMusic said:
Indy costing $90 mil in 1995 is not the same as FJ costing $90 mil in 2010, if for no other reason than Indy would have cost $200 mil+ under current WDI standards. There's no getting around that Universal Creative, in this decade, is getting more bang for their buck than WDI, who are incapable of delivering anything at or under budget.
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I wonder what Disney would be paying for exactly the same Nintendo expansion. USJ just came out and said it's costing $430 million so that's straight from the horses mouth. Would it be another billion dollar land?
the.dreamfinder said:
Tim Delaney on WDI Budgets:

"But you really need.. I mean one of the problems we had to be quite honest with you, we were building Disney's California Adventure at the same time they were building Tokyo DisneySeas and they were two extreme ends of the spectrum. ... I'm going to give you my personal opinion on this. I think that those are two extreme ends of the spectrum and I don't think either end of the spectrum is business that we should be in. I think we should we certainly need more money than Disney's California Adventure had and probably not as much money as Tokyo DisneySea had."

The Season Pass Podcast #116 - The Tim Delaney Interview Part 3: California Adventure and Hong Kong Disneyland
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Is he putting down TDS?
the.dreamfinder said:
UNI Moscow lives!!
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...fies-as-dreamworks-signs-local-partner-955621
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Starting construction next year and opening in 2018? That can't possibly be right.
rushtest4echo said:
So to be clear:

You can't compare Indy's total cost to FJ's ride system cost.

Indy costing $90 million for the entire project in 1995 would be closer to $150-180 million today.
Forbidden Journey was $150+ million (Martin's claim of $90 million is ONLY for the ride system).
Similar costs no matter how you slice it.

Cars Land cost $260 million, and you got an e-ticket, 2 minor flat rides and several stores/restaurants.
Diagon Alley cost $360 million, and you got an e-ticket, a transport ride and several stores/restaurants.

Again, very easy/obvious examples of Disney overspending and under delivering are all over the place. But Indy vs FJ or even Carsland vs Diagon are extremely bad examples.
Click to expand...
I've read that RSR alone cost them $300 million and I just went searching to back it up and it didn't take much time at all to find it.
TP2000 said:
While I couldn't agree more, I don't think Disney has ever had a ride system that could handle 4,000+ per hour, and certainly not an E Ticket. They seemed to have maxed out around 3,000 an hour in the 1960's, and then crashed towards 1,500 an hour for E Tickets since the 1990's.

But at 2,500 riders per hour the old school Imagineers and park operations guys did their jobs much, much better in the 1960's and 70's than the current crop of MBA execs and Celebrity Imagineers! do in the 21st century.

It's A Small World opened at the World's Fair in '64, and then Disneyland in '66, with an hourly capacity of 2,500+. Carousel of Progress opened at the World's Fair in '64 and Disneyland in '67 with an hourly capacity of 3,000. Pirates opened at Disneyland in 1967 with a capacity of 2,800+ an hour. PeopleMover opened at Disneyland in '67 with an hourly capacity of 2,900. Haunted Mansion opened in '69 with 2,300 per hour, the same as Adventure Thru Inner Space that opened in '67.

Then fast forward to the 21st century when Anaheim alone has triple the attendance of the 1960's and they spent $300 Million on Radiator Springs Racers and it only has a capacity of 1,500 an hour. Frozenstrom will have an hourly capacity of 900 per hour. Both of those rides were, or will be, subject to massive marketing campaigns that will create demand of over 3,000 per hour in very busy theme parks. Children will cry, parents will fume.

The delusional MBA boneheads in TDA/TDO and Celebrity Imagineers! in Glendale who design and approve those things are simply not good at their jobs and clearly have no idea how to run a theme park that respects its customers and employees. That's all there is to it.
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@TP2000 is a pretty respected member here and though I don't know if he has sources he also doesn't seem like the type to just spout random numbers.

I've also read that Diagon was closer to $450 million.
 
Princess Leia

Princess Leia

Well-Known Member
truecoat said:
Rogue One twitter impressions are through the roof! I think it's going to beat the box office predictions. I had medium to low expectations for this movie but hat has changed.

Here is a twitter response by Germain Lussier formerly of SlashFilm and now at I09 and Gizmodo.

Holy crap did I love Rogue One. It’s gonna take days to wipe the smile off my face. So many surprises and so much fun. Get excited.
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I am so excited for that movie :D
 
R

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
Mike S said:
I've read that RSR alone cost them $300 million and I just went searching to back it up and it didn't take much time at all to find it.

@TP2000 is a pretty respected member here and though I don't know if he has sources he also doesn't seem like the type to just spout random numbers.

I've also read that Diagon was closer to $450 million.
Click to expand...

Internet numbers are silly garbage regardless of who they came from.

Carsland's costs have been totally conflated into the placemaking and other projects happening around DCA at the time. RSR was an expensive attraction, one of the most expensive Disney's ever done, but so are the other 5 slot car attractions (including the two Indys and Dinosaur since they share a huge amount of hardware and programming with the slot car rides). Adjusting for inflation, Test Track, Indy, Cars and Journey to the Center of the Earth are all budget busting mega attractions but they all had similar budgets accounting for inflation.

Diagon's cost is accounting for the Hogsmeade station for Hogwarts Express, the employee parking structure, and the superfund levels of cleanup that were needed for Jaws's constant fuel, chlorine, and peroxide leaks. Gringotts ride system was a tad under $130 million, same for the queue and show building.
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
rushtest4echo said:
Internet numbers are silly garbage regardless of who they came from.

Carsland's costs have been totally conflated into the placemaking and other projects happening around DCA at the time. RSR was an expensive attraction, one of the most expensive Disney's ever done, but so are the other 5 slot car attractions (including the two Indys and Dinosaur since they share a huge amount of hardware and programming with the slot car rides). Adjusting for inflation, Test Track, Indy, Cars and Journey to the Center of the Earth are all budget busting mega attractions but they all had similar budgets accounting for inflation.

Diagon's cost is accounting for the Hogsmeade station for Hogwarts Express, the employee parking structure, and the superfund levels of cleanup that were needed for Jaws's constant fuel, chlorine, and peroxide leaks. Gringotts ride system was a tad under $130 million, same for the queue and show building.
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I guess the same would apply to you too.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
ford91exploder said:
Financially dodgy companies all have a division where they hide the losses by transfer payments to that organization, That department will also be saddled with 'expenses' which have NOTHING to do with that departments function which is why they are so expensive when they bill out services.

I suspect at Disney that department is WDI which is one of the only rational reasons WDI is SO expensive relative to the rest of the industry this is especially true since nearly all of the 'Big Name' Imagineers and their staff have been kicked to the curb and WDI no longer has the in house industrial capacity to internally produce things and AA design/production has been outsourced to Garner Holt. So what DOES today's WDI do exactly which costs SO MUCH???

So in the normal course of business WDI should have become MORE competitive with the industry at large yet they are increasingly uncompetitive to the point where it's becoming a bone of contention with OLC and other non-Disney entities.
Click to expand...
The origin of the high costs at Walt Disney Imagineering are not difficult to find and require none of your conspiracies.

Any decision at Disney involves a lot of stake holders. The more people involved in making a decision means more people paid related to the project and more time for a decision to be made.

Disney works out everything in far more detail. Some of that time is duplicated as the various consultants wil still need to do their own work.

Disney loves expensive materials. Sometimes finishes like paint or roof tile patterns are chosen in the field, meaning someone is paid to go a bunch of variations on the existing construction so that a decision can finally be made. Sometimes those expensive materials get used in odd, non-typical ways, which means lots of work to conceal a method that works. Or it could mean something like buying very expensive bricks of various colors from all over the place, painstakingly arrange them in a very specific pattern, pay someone to install this very specific pattern of very expensive bricks only for it to be decided that they should be painted over in a single color. Compare that to Duff Gardens at Universal Studios Florida, which is sculpted concrete that can be painted a solid color or a unique brick pattern.

Walt Disney Imagineering remains headquartered in Glendale and all big projects remain there as well. There are advantages to a single location but it also means Fisney will do things like temporarily relocate employees of contracted third parties to California, providing housing and per diems.

Disney likes to try to keep things moving by using a fast track process, but that requires solid decision making. The contractors don't care because they're being paid on a cost plus fee basis, so they are more than happy to keep redoing work.

Even the outsourcing is not really a per project cost savings due to the level of work Disney requires. Many more man hours are still demanded, Disney just doesn't carry the costs between projects.
 

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