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A Spirited Valentine ...

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
What about accepting that what's going to happen is still going to happen regardless of if we respect the medium ourselves?
Recognizing what is and accepting it are not one and the same. Acceptance involves agreement. It is therefore a contradiction to state that themed entertainment is a legitimate medium and accept that themed entertainment is not a legitimate medium.
 

FigmentForver96

Well-Known Member
Recognizing what is and accepting it are not one and the same. Acceptance involves agreement. It is therefore a contradiction to state that themed entertainment is a legitimate medium and accept that themed entertainment is not a legitimate medium.
Exactly! This. I can't change what's happening but I sure can sound off about it. I try to uphold my standards
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
Sound off all you want. But does it change what they're doing? Some of us have acknowledged we don't agree with some of their decisions but I'm not going to keep going on about it and dwelling on it and making myself hate everything they do because I sit on some moral high horse that I know what's best for the parks and I don't look down on those who have accepted reality, doesn't mean I don't long for them to do things differently, to me no it doesn't have to be either or. I think my standards are set very high for the parks but what's done is done and what will be will be. But to each their own. Complain away if it makes you feel better but don't put down those who aren't going on about it, I don't appreciate being told I'm "settling" or "not a real fan" or that I don't have high standards for the park because I don't spout about the differences in themed entertainment vs decoration vs. whatever.

I know this won't be a popular post but the whole "I'm a real fan because I cling to the past and hold them accountable" is getting old.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Exactly! This. I can't change what's happening but I sure can sound off about it. I try to uphold my standards
Last sentence is one of those that ticks people off and I think it is something worth discussing. There is a false nobility assigned to the notion of "theme park" (self promotion: more thoughts on that here). Personally, I do not care if someone just like the rides and doesn't care about anything else. What far more bothers me is passing this off as appreciation for themed entertainment and/or telling others to not care about themed entertainment.

A lot of this ties into why I have come to rather hate the word "themed/theming." As the term is so widely used, it is part of casting doubt onto the legitimacy of themed entertainment. This is seen repeatedly in statements like "add theming" or "retheme." "Theming," as it is so widely used, reduces theme from the eternal concept which binds and drives all into a sort of decorative layer that can easily be switched out with little to no meaningful impact. Theming is everything. The spatial organization is an expression of the theme. The music is an expression of the theme. The lighting is an expression of the theme. The hinges on the door are an expression of the theme. The color of the mortar between the bricks is an expression of the theme. Theme is not any one of these expressions, but how they work together to convey a message. Using "theming" to describe a layer of props and ornament robs the word of its significance to the entire concept of themed entertainment.

This loss of meaning and significance in the term "theming," along with the loading of the false nobility, is important to this notion of standards and the tempers such comments flare. Preference for Disney or Universal for any reason is attributed to "the theming" and to be less interested in "the theming" is misaligned to other areas. Not caring about theming doesn't mean one dislikes beautiful buildings or large scale rides or cleanliness or good customer service.
 
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FigmentForver96

Well-Known Member
Last sentence is one of those that ticks people off and I think it is something worth discussing. There is a false nobility assigned to the notion of "theme park" (self promotion: more thoughts on that here). Personally, I do not care if someone just like the rides and doesn't care about anything else. What far more bothers me is passing this off as appreciation for themed entertainment and/or telling others to not care about themed entertainment.

A lot of this ties into why I have come to rather hate the word "themed/theming." As the term is so widely used, it is part of casting doubt onto the legitimacy of themed entertainment. This is seen repeatedly in statements like "add theming" or "retheme." "Theming," as it is so widely used, reduces theme from the eternal concept which binds and drives all into a sort of decorative layer that can easily be switched out with little to no meaningful impact. Theming is everything. The spatial organization is an expression of the theme. The music is an expression of the theme. The lighting is an expression of the theme. The hinges on the door are an expression of the theme. The color of the mortar between the bricks is an expression of the theme. Theme is not any one of these expressions, but how they work together to convey a message. Using "theming" to describe a layer of props and ornament robs the word of its significance to the entire concept of themed entertainment.

This loss of meaning and significance in the term "theming," along with the loading of the false nobility, is important to this notion of standards and the tempers such comments flare. Preference for Disney or Universal for any reason is attributed to "the theming" and to be less interested in "the theming" is misaligned to other areas. Not caring about theming doesn't mean one dislikes beautiful buildings or large scale rides or cleanliness or good customer service.
God so well put I might cry
 

MisterPenguin

Fully Pfizered!
Premium Member
Thanks. But you will have a bit of a wait. That's why I put a few quick thoughts out (BTW, since this thread had to be a film one in my absence, did I miss something or was the first Spidey film in the MCU not quite the gazillion dollar success it was supposed to be? I mean, we all know most online fans will rip the Cars franchise, so the fact Cars 3 has pretty much eaten dust at the box office likely makes most happy. But Marvel? C'mon ... )

SM Homecoming had a much larger debut than expected which made the fall off look unusually big. It has already passed the half a billion mark and still is taking 3-10 billion dollars a day during this summer. It will wind up making as much as the other S-Ms while garnering critical acclaim. That sets up nicely a sequel.

Cars 3, however... The best thing that can be said for it is that it's better than Cars 2.



As to fighting battles, I am done. Too old for that. Not interested.

Wow. You should tweet that. Since it seems like the exact opposite of everything you post. Such as what you then immediately said...

If I want a quality Disney Parks experience in every way, then I'll save my nickels and dimes (down in Mom's basement I have a huge pickle jar full of change!) and go back to Tokyo because I know exactly what I am going to get: namely the best theme park product in the world.

Are they starting Halloween in August like desperate Disney is? Just wondering?

Sounds like you're picking battles.
 

Jones14

Well-Known Member
Mike, did you visit USH on your recent trip to CA? I've only seen Potter there, and not Orlando, and I'm curious to know how the Hogsmeade areas compare.
To go over it VERY briefly, the setup of the land is weaker. It is right around the corner from the surrounding areas, and the transition is painfully abrupt. With that said, I'd put the theming about on par with Orlando's. Shrek's showbuilding is obscured by an obviously painted on mural of trees, and you can see California offices from the land. This compares with seeing Sindbad and the showbuilding for FJ in Orlando's version.

However, Forbidden Journey blows ours out of the water. It made me understand again why people were blown away by Hogsmeade back in 2010. The projections are crystal clear, there's so many dementors, and their showbuilding is painted the same color as the rockwork it surrounds. Yay for no more go away white!

Also, Ollivanders is in a better spot over on the west coast. Whole package? Ours, because of Diagon and the train. But their Hogsmeade's attractions and internal layout are better (to me).
 
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Mike S

Well-Known Member
Last sentence is one of those that ticks people off and I think it is something worth discussing. There is a false nobility assigned to the notion of "theme park" (self promotion: more thoughts on that here). Personally, I do not care if someone just like the rides and doesn't care about anything else. What far more bothers me is passing this off as appreciation for themed entertainment and/or telling others to not care about themed entertainment.

A lot of this ties into why I have come to rather hate the word "themed/theming." As the term is so widely used, it is part of casting doubt onto the legitimacy of themed entertainment. This is seen repeatedly in statements like "add theming" or "retheme." "Theming," as it is so widely used, reduces theme from the eternal concept which binds and drives all into a sort of decorative layer that can easily be switched out with little to no meaningful impact. Theming is everything. The spatial organization is an expression of the theme. The music is an expression of the theme. The lighting is an expression of the theme. The hinges on the door are an expression of the theme. The color of the mortar between the bricks is an expression of the theme. Theme is not any one of these expressions, but how they work together to convey a message. Using "theming" to describe a layer of props and ornament robs the word of its significance to the entire concept of themed entertainment.

This loss of meaning and significance in the term "theming," along with the loading of the false nobility, is important to this notion of standards and the tempers such comments flare. Preference for Disney or Universal for any reason is attributed to "the theming" and to be less interested in "the theming" is misaligned to other areas. Not caring about theming doesn't mean one dislikes beautiful buildings or large scale rides or cleanliness or good customer service.
One of my favorite bits of "theming" (sorry not sure what other word to use to describe it) is the path of brown in Liberty Square and pointing out to others what it's supposed to represent.
To go over it VERY briefly, the setup of the land is weaker. It is right around the corner from the surrounding areas, and the transition is painfully abrupt. With that said, I'd put the theming about on par with Orlando's. Shrek's showbuilding is obscured by an obviously painted on mural of trees, and you can see California offices from the land. This compares with seeing Sindbad and the showbuilding for FJ in Orlando's version.

However, Forbidden Journey blows ours out of the water. It made me understand again why people were blown away by Hogsmeade back in 2010. The projections are crystal clear, there's so many dementors, and their showbuilding is painted the same color as the rockwork it surrounds. Yay for no more go away white!

Also, Ollivanders is in a better spot over on the west coast. Whole package? Ours, because of Diagon and the train. But their Hogsmeade's attractions and internal layout are better (to me).
I really hope we get those Dementors eventually. Ours will also be even better once we have the new coaster open.
 

Daveeeeed

Well-Known Member
What's cool about the hardcore Disney community is you have people like myself, @Mike S, and @Kman101, who love the parks deeply but want to continue enjoying them, so we have accepted most of the change while still loving the past. You have other fans that lament the misguided changes and from my understanding, don't want anything to change. And you have fans like @jt04... 'nuff said. But the misguided changes have positives as well (I'm sure everyone realizes this but there's not enough credit given IMO). TRON is not the best choice in that the park needs, but the positives are that it could allow SM to go under for an overhaul, add the first E-ticket in 27 years, and it's thematically appropriate. At least for me, it does not justify the action to be disappointed. There's a new Main Street theater which is EXACTLY what the park needs, yet people feel like it's worth critiquing every detail.

The only announcement that is so far universally loved is the Star Wars Hotel it seems:p.

You can still enjoy something you're passionate about and criticize it, but some people on this forum seem like they are Universal & SeaWorld employees. The shift to IP based entertainment has already happened. I am not going to throw a fit when Ratatouille goes to the France Pavilion. It's a decent IP placement. Now, I am very disappointed with Gotg's placement, but I am happier that it will not go in Tot, and it also seems that side of FW will be more Space focused as a whole. Again, not advocating for Gotg's placement, but it's an E-ticket, and I REALLY CANNOT BE SO NEGATIVE ABOUT SOMETHING I AM SO PASSIONATE ABOUT. My life would be too negative I guess. Maybe that's my reason, it's most likely not yours.
Pandora is a recent example that Disney still has it, and as Joe Rhode is tied to Marvel I have stronger faith that it will be better simply because he is at the helm.

Why don't we slam the GMR getting replaced for budgetary reasons, which will actually make HWS an inferior park to WDS until Toy Story Land opens (how is this even possible?) Criticize parks being left stagnant for well over a decade, and also if Disney does not give Figment an attraction. The Mickey Ride will be epic, Ratatouille is a faaar better placement than Frozen will ever be. Yes, there's a small amount of settling involved, but you end up being a lot happier and still have the ability to lash out against decisions.
I just wish people would criticize, but more sparingly to give more reason for Disney to acknowledge us. When we criticize every single thing, of course they have no reason to listen, but if we also mention the positives in things, instead of continuously listing the negative, I really do believe that's our best bet to getting thematically superior parks in the future. I just hope whoever is the next CEO does not appoint a retail guy as the head of the parks.
 
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Princess Leia

Well-Known Member
Thanks much. But not back yet. Call this a cameo and preview. It may well be a few weeks before I have the thread ready as I also would like to confirm a few things and I was out of the loop until recently.

But, please, tell the bois that NO Mary Poppins ride is being built or added to ANY Disney Park in the world right now as that seems a popular thought.

Also, how has Volcano Bay been doing since its disastrous (and it was) opening? Has UNI finally just admitted that they built an unfinished water park and then added a ridiculous system with five-hour waits for water slides and called the thing groundbreaking? That was Disney level arrogance there!

Oh, and anyone want to tell me how I was wrong about SW being much behind in FL? Or did I mishear my good pal Chappie say that it will first open in Anaheim and months later ... in Orlando (at least parts of it will)?
Hey Spirit, welcome back. Could I use your Poppins quote in the U.K. Pavilion thread? It seems like the most logical choice for the attraction, but you, along with other insiders, have said it's not happening.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
As the term is so widely used, it is part of casting doubt onto the legitimacy of themed entertainment. This is seen repeatedly in statements like "add theming" or "retheme." "Theming," as it is so widely used, reduces theme from the eternal concept which binds and drives all into a sort of decorative layer that can easily be switched out with little to no meaningful impact. Theming is everything. The spatial organization is an expression of the theme. The music is an expression of the theme. The lighting is an expression of the theme. The hinges on the door are an expression of the theme. The color of the mortar between the bricks is an expression of the theme. Theme is not any one of these expressions, but how they work together to convey a message. Using "theming" to describe a layer of props and ornament robs the word of its significance to the entire concept of themed entertainment.
This is part of why I feel the DCA makeover was only a mild success -- sure the park looks better and has some more things worth doing, but it is still deeply marred by the foundational mistakes built into its layout and its themes. The very best work done to the park is still either A) Constrained by these things or B) Dismissive of them. Carsland is a boon for the park, but is only tangentially tied to the theme and is not served by the arrangement of the spaces around it. At this point the park doesn't show any signs of trending in a more positive direction on either front, with Marvel relating to California in no clear meaningful way and the organization of the park being perhaps as clunky as it was from day one. You can't just up what's there and call it themed. It's usually not that simple.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
First of all, I have been out of the country for longer than FoP has been open so I won't presume to assume what demos FoP is or isn't pleasing. Hell, I won't even comment on the fact that WDW is having a dreadful summer because if 30% off food deals for the next two months and lifting weeks of blackouts for lower tier APs doesn't show that (along with shorter than normal park hours at big dog MK) than nothing will, Cap.

But my comment, which I will discuss further in an upcoming thread is that Tron is very slow loading in a park where I saw one ECV in two full days -- and this was a person who needed it and wasn't morbidly obese and riding anyway -- and no double-wide strollers. Loading is complex and requires one individual crossing behind seating, which both American lawyers and dumb Guests will have difficulty with.

And let's not even talk about how lazy this is. This is akin to fanboi fantasies that Mystic Manor will be cloned and come to MK. Because in every real sense, Tron IS SDL's Space Mountain. So, WDW will have ancient Space Mountain next to Modern Space Mountain. It was a bad choice for this park unless Disney is planning on shutting down (or doing something major) with Space ... even then, it is dumb.
Tron also has dual load/unload though doesn't it? That's gotta help with efficiency from a load standpoint.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
A couple of things that will make either myself or your pal Derek Burgan very happy
Also, how has Volcano Bay been doing since its disastrous (and it was) opening? Has UNI finally just admitted that they built an unfinished water park and then added a ridiculous system with five-hour waits for water slides and called the thing groundbreaking? That was Disney level arrogance there!
Any idea what capacity is for this "park"? Is it as low (or lower) than 6000 as was reported at opening?

Oh, and anyone want to tell me how I was wrong about SW being much behind in FL? Or did I mishear my good pal Chappie say that it will first open in Anaheim and months later ... in Orlando (at least parts of it will)?
I understand they're not building it in exactly the same order, but it appears that Florida is about 3-5 months behind, does that sound right?
 

Princess Leia

Well-Known Member
Speaking of Ollivanders, I remember taking my little cousin to UNI (in an AP there as well) and she got picked. I thought "oh great, she's gonna get a free wand." As soon as I think that a lady comes up to me telling me that I can buy the wand for $40. :banghead:
Ooooh thanks for clearing that up. Idk why, but I was also under the impression that the kids picked would get free wands. :oops:
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
This is part of why I feel the DCA makeover was only a mild success -- sure the park looks better and has some more things worth doing, but it is still deeply marred by the foundational mistakes built into its layout and its themes. The very best work done to the park is still either A) Constrained by these things or B) Dismissive of them. Carsland is a boon for the park, but is only tangentially tied to the theme and is not served by the arrangement of the spaces around it. At this point the park doesn't show any signs of trending in a more positive direction on either front, with Marvel relating to California in no clear meaningful way and the organization of the park being perhaps as clunky as it was from day one. You can't just up what's there and call it themed. It's usually not that simple.
Spending a decent amount of time there recently I fully agree. Pixar Pier will only make things worse.
Ooooh thanks for clearing that up. Idk why, but I was also under the impression that the kids picked would get free wands. :oops:
Don't the kids in the stories actually pay for theirs as well?
 

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