A Spirited Valentine ...

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
What an odd post...

Why are you agreeing with him that TZ is more well-known and then predicting that in a decade kids are going to think the trendy movie from before they were born is cool?

Because demographics. The older generation that knows of TZ and didn't get into the superhero movies will die off. Next generation will know of MCU as much as they know Star Wars and Potter because there will be more GotG Movies and they will get more eyeballs than TZ would ever have had.

If you think billion dollar Marvel Cinematic movies are just a trend and Disney will let them fade from memory... can I introduce you to some 70 year old princesses?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
C'mon guys arguing the merits of IP. Can you take it to a room? Or a PM? That debate shouldn't happen everytime the ToT redo is discussed. The redo didn't happen because of any issues with TZ whatsoever. It happened because it was a very cheap and quick way to have an E-Ticket Marvel attraction in the US parks. Simple as that. IP was only the issue in that the Bobs wanted Marvel in the parks.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
Because demographics. The older generation that knows of TZ and didn't get into the superhero movies will die off. Next generation will know of MCU as much as they know Star Wars and Potter because there will be more GotG Movies and they will get more eyeballs than TZ would ever have had.

If you think billion dollar Marvel Cinematic movies are just a trend and Disney will let them fade from memory... can I introduce you to some 70 year old princesses?

Well, isn't that the point? TZ has had almost as much staying power as the 70 year old princesses, and without a marketing task force behind it.

And though I doubt the MCU will become the next Star Wars, or even the next Potter, that would make Iron Man Luke and GotG some eewoks.

TZ has stood on its own. GotG still has to prove its not just "that thing from 10 years ago". I mean, it could be still relevant in a decade, but I wouldn't say it's a sure thing.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
How?, Other than the contrived "The Movie is about environmentalism" corporate reasoning.

It is still about nature. And while the ''all the animals that ever or never lived" mantra exists, no one ever said it had to be on this planet, especially when talking about mythical beasts. This area is going to be good. With Cameron's pushing this way overbudget and Rohde's oversight, it will be a great addition to WDW. This is not something to be angry about, but to enjoy. Now, it shouldn't have taken six years ... but that's just Disney.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
"Celebrate! A Street Party" was basically a buffer between Parade of Dreams and Soundsational; it ran for a year and a half from March 2009 to November 2010. By summer 2011, Soundsational was open.

Thanks. I didn't realize it even ran that long. I was only at DL 2-3 times during that period, but I know I saw it at least once. I have absolutely no recollection of it, though.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
That's ridiculous, The Twilight Zone is still one of the most beloved TV shows of all time. People for generations to come will still be watching the Twilight Zone for years to come.

Funny. I didn't say it wasn't beloved. Or that it won't ever stopped being watched by everyone.

But you did a really good job laying into those straw men. I give you five gold stars!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Welcome Back @WDW1974 Thanks for starting a new thread. It will help pass time till Season 3 of Better call Saul comes out. The talks of GotG taking over Ellen's Energy has gone quiet. Are they rethinking cloning GotG over at DHS and getting rid of the ToT? (which would be a shame)

Well, how can they? Chappie boldly came out (awkward pause) at some D23 event a few months back and took a shot directly at yours truly stating that the FL ToT would remain the way it is. Of course, fans being groveling, drooling addicts, nobody dared stand up and say "But you did say the same thing about DCA's Tower just a few months before you announced it" ... or "OK, so you aren't ready to announce it or have decided not to, but will you at least admit that Imagineers have worked up a WDW version?"

I'm not saying a darn thing about GotG at WDW at this time. We just must believe Chappie isn't lying ... this time.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Skimming through I thought I glimpsed spirit saying that Pandora will be a great new addition. Built with a massive budget and now the crown jewel in JR's crown of a theme park. Built in cooperation between Lightstorm and WDI.

We have come a long way from a project supposedly mired in creative hell because JC was too demanding and hard to get along with as Joe was being shoved towards the nearest exit.

Don't you just love happy endings?

Ah, Frank. You'll be the last one to shut the lights out on this MAGICal site when its time is over.
Not rewriting history. It was mired in creative hell as you put it. It almost withered on the vine. And since it has been way over budget and way behind schedule. You know the Weatherman said it would open in 2015, right?

As to Joe being shown the door, that was one individual here placing it online (and I think I know a bit how they came to that conclusion, but am not placing it here) irresponsibly and then another blogger in the fan community (my good friend who lives in Amity) also ran with it irresponsibly. Oh, I believe they both said Tom Fitzgerald had received the boot as well.

They are both gainfully employed with WDI.

I do hear rumors (so far just that) of Joe taking on a new role at WDI in the near future, but that is all it is right now. To be clear, Joe was never going to be fired over anything related to Pandora. Bad rumor that started on this site that I had nothing to do with.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I know we live in a post-facts society. But I have to at least try:

Aside from World Bazaar, Tokyo Disneyland's pathways, attractions and "weatherizing" are no different from the stuff here in the US- aside from a lack of decent air conditioning/heating in Tokyo. And yet- Tokyo receives around 20% more rainfall than Shanghai. Last year, Shanghai had some historic rains and flooding during the summer, but the fact remains: Tokyo receives more rainfall and has no more attention paid to protecting rides or guests from the elements. Shanghai also receives less snow than Tokyo as well.

C'mon, be nice, let's leave the post-facts jab out. I like to use facts as much as possible. I'd argue that putting 'aside' World Bazaar is an awful big thing to place to the side. It was created specifically to address a climate that receives lots of rain and occasional snow and sleet. It is an entire land. That's a pretty big deal. DLP went the arcade route, which I prefer, but they both are huge steps up in the design game to deal with weather. I still think they should have been added to MK instead of the horrible back alley that totally takes you off-stage ... And the point I was making was that SDL really didn't weatherize much at all. As a matter of fact because of the weird layout and large distances between areas with empty expansion pads, it would seem to be more of a factor to be stuck in rain in Shanghai than Orlando or Anaheim.

Well before Universal Beijing made public the park was stocked with Universal's "greatest hits". Creative sold Beijing on the greatest hits concept, it's what got the project moving. At some point, creative decided to slip a few unique elements in. These elements were rejected.

The unique elements that I am aware of were shot down by Creative's leadership, most notably -- Woodbury. Best of parks are fine. I love TDL, although it has gotten more unique now than it was in 1983 (it opened with two unique attractions, one a film that lasted all of two years I believe). Beijing is going to be a wonderful park. But not likely a must see by American fans because so much of it is literally cut and paste. I'd rather see unique, but I am not who this park is being built for.

And if you've never been to Universal Osaka, you probably should head out there just to experience the superior guests service. It may be the only park that I've visited where they make Tokyo's cast look downright poor (I'm only partially exaggerating). ;) Space Fantasy and Hollywood Dream are excellent rides that are (to me) worth the price of admission. To think that Hollywood Dream was supposed to be in Orlando still bugs me every time I see that eyesore and awful ride experience called Rip Ride Rocket. :(

You'll be able to see that Universal Osaka is also "not weatherized" (besides again, a covered entry) in the terms that you think are necessary in Beijing despite Osaka also receiving more rainfall. ;)

I know I will get there eventually. Just thinking it won't be on this trip. Only so much theme park time I want and between SDL, TDL and TDS, I think that's plenty.
 

Longhairbear

Well-Known Member
--- DVC Expansion in the swamps: First, we all know it is coming to CBR (or the property as it will be a separate resort) because Tom Amity said so ... like two years after I said so here, but who's counting? There are plans right now for DVC from the Contemporary to Coronado to EPCOT-adjacent. They are simply going to continue to turn WDW into The Timeshare Kingdom of the World, something I started calling it over a decade ago.

At age 26, DVC is showing no signs of slowing down. Just a decade ago, the only DVC presence near the MK was the beautifully integrated WLV. Bob Iger and his minions have added the cancer, what it truly is, to every MK resort and then returned to the WL and have taken the wilderness away. It is a quick money grab and a way to cover for the fact they simply can't sustain the price points they now command. The problem is Pop Century is a $49-69 a night property and most people pay closer to $150 a night to stay. Deluxe visitors dropped too the mods and mod regulars to the values with many people opting for off-site or no WDW at all. Now ... y'all do realize that Disney would be making money if it charged $99 a night for a standard room at the Poly, right?
I get that there is too much DVC at WDW, I am a member, and haven't been back to FLA in 7-8 years, I forget. My home resort is Wilderness, or whatever they are calling the villas now. We spend our points at DLR, mostly at the hotels because there are no rooms left at the villas at the 7 month window. I'm sounding like a broken record, and I've mentioned or asked you about another DVC in California.I know they want to sell out Aulani first, but new villas at DLR is where the interest in buying is, at least here. We go to the DVC salesroom in DTD, and they tell us the most often asked question is about more DVC to Disneyland.
 

Absimilliard

Well-Known Member
I have been thinking about the various comments said online about how WDI just can't build high capacity rides anymore and how they spend so much money on rides. Here is my long reflection on WDI and Universal Creative:

The reason why you rarely see high capacity rides as in say over 1500 guests an hour is two folds: ride safety regulation has gotten quite more severe and the guests slow down operation a lot.

On the ride regulation subject, look no further than Seven Dwarves Mine Train. Originally supposed to have comfortable T shaped lap bars, we ended up with the current tight U bars installed in a space not designed for them. Look at how many adults struggle to get the bar closed and then think of many lost dispatches you get over an hour. Splash Mountain received those lap bars and it made things difficult for cast members as unlike Tokyo, the Florida station was not designed for lap bars. Again, you slow things down and capacity suffer. Adding air gates to all the rides also slow things down.

On the subject of slow guests, think back say 25 years ago: how many guests did you see that required more time to load? Going back to Seven Dwarves Mine Train, even with the ADA seat, it is still a struggle for many guests and you end up with cases where with 5 trains on the ride.... two will be waiting behind the station and the fifth will probably stop at the top of B lift. By the time you get all the trains moving again on the correct interval, you've lost one or two dispatch (so 20 or 40 guests less that hour).

To give you an idea of how things used to be, I give you the example of Space Mountain at Disneyland Paris, prior to the 2005 refurb. For 10 years, that ride ran with 5 trains at once and with no air gates in the station, end result was a capacity on paper rated at 2400 guests an hour. To give you an idea, 2400 guests is pretty much a walk in the waiting line to the station with how fast you're loading guests on. Two cast members assigned seats in the double station and the robust Vekoma ride system even capable of adding and removing trains while the ride was running. With no air gates, guests stayed behind a red line and it was the load cast member and dispatch cast members duties to look at the guests to make sure no guests got too close. Disabled guests had two severe rules: you needed to be able to walk the length of the station to sit in the back car and you had to be able to go up and down stairs on your own. Temple Du Peril, Peter Pan's Flight and later Crush Coaster also had the same rules, but they were relaxed a few years ago.

So with all that in mind, how many guests was Space Mountain able to move in real life? 2350-2375 an hour. We simply could not run out of Fast Pass on busy days and guests would have maybe a return time 45-50 minutes later in the worst cases. Sadly, the 2005 refurb brought modernity to Space Mountain and it can now run only 4 trains on two stations or 2 trains on a single station, shrinking capacity to 1700-1800 guests for 4 or 700-800 for two. Air gates were also added and it made loading slower as well. So poor Space Mountain went from the highest capacity single track coaster in the world to one that struggles with lines all the time. I can't count the times where I waited close to 25-30 minutes with a fast pass now.

Walt Disney Imagineering has all those things to deal with when designing rides now. They sometimes hit homeruns like the separate ADA loading station and the ride system for Pirates in Shanghai. Other times, they miss completely and deliver to Operations rides with no capacity.

One time Universal Creative messed with a high capacity ride is at Universal Studios Japan. Picture this: they finally built a high capacity roller coaster that could do more guests per hour than DLP Space Mountain. Its a Bolliger & Mabillard Hyper Coaster (like Mako at SeaWorld Florida) with a double station like Big Thunder Mountain. They could run 5 36 passenger trains on Hollywood Dream at once and get numbers that would make any other parks red with jealousy. So what did our good friends at Universal Creative do? Let's add Backward trains and call it "Backdrop"! Only one slight problem: they kept forward trains as well...

End result is this operational disaster: one Universal Express line, a single riders line for Backdrop, a regular line for Backdrop and a regular line for plain forward facing Hollywood Dream. You end up with standard line that barely moves since they also split Universal Express tickets where you get specific Forward or Backdrop slots. They also had to modify all the trains since to keep the same capacity, they had to install a second mechanical release system in both stations for the Backdrop trains and this lead as well to losing the restraint sensors. They now work with low tech pieces of tape placed on the lap bar and someone able to fit on Mako would require the bar to be shoved a good inch further in. On average, each train has 1-2 guests who can't fit and this again slows down the lines a lot.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
I have been thinking about the various comments said online about how WDI just can't build high capacity rides anymore and how they spend so much money on rides. Here is my long reflection on WDI and Universal Creative:

The reason why you rarely see high capacity rides as in say over 1500 guests an hour is two folds: ride safety regulation has gotten quite more severe and the guests slow down operation a lot.

On the ride regulation subject, look no further than Seven Dwarves Mine Train. Originally supposed to have comfortable T shaped lap bars, we ended up with the current tight U bars installed in a space not designed for them. Look at how many adults struggle to get the bar closed and then think of many lost dispatches you get over an hour. Splash Mountain received those lap bars and it made things difficult for cast members as unlike Tokyo, the Florida station was not designed for lap bars. Again, you slow things down and capacity suffer. Adding air gates to all the rides also slow things down.

On the subject of slow guests, think back say 25 years ago: how many guests did you see that required more time to load? Going back to Seven Dwarves Mine Train, even with the ADA seat, it is still a struggle for many guests and you end up with cases where with 5 trains on the ride.... two will be waiting behind the station and the fifth will probably stop at the top of B lift. By the time you get all the trains moving again on the correct interval, you've lost one or two dispatch (so 20 or 40 guests less that hour).

To give you an idea of how things used to be, I give you the example of Space Mountain at Disneyland Paris, prior to the 2005 refurb. For 10 years, that ride ran with 5 trains at once and with no air gates in the station, end result was a capacity on paper rated at 2400 guests an hour. To give you an idea, 2400 guests is pretty much a walk in the waiting line to the station with how fast you're loading guests on. Two cast members assigned seats in the double station and the robust Vekoma ride system even capable of adding and removing trains while the ride was running. With no air gates, guests stayed behind a red line and it was the load cast member and dispatch cast members duties to look at the guests to make sure no guests got too close. Disabled guests had two severe rules: you needed to be able to walk the length of the station to sit in the back car and you had to be able to go up and down stairs on your own. Temple Du Peril, Peter Pan's Flight and later Crush Coaster also had the same rules, but they were relaxed a few years ago.

So with all that in mind, how many guests was Space Mountain able to move in real life? 2350-2375 an hour. We simply could not run out of Fast Pass on busy days and guests would have maybe a return time 45-50 minutes later in the worst cases. Sadly, the 2005 refurb brought modernity to Space Mountain and it can now run only 4 trains on two stations or 2 trains on a single station, shrinking capacity to 1700-1800 guests for 4 or 700-800 for two. Air gates were also added and it made loading slower as well. So poor Space Mountain went from the highest capacity single track coaster in the world to one that struggles with lines all the time. I can't count the times where I waited close to 25-30 minutes with a fast pass now.

Walt Disney Imagineering has all those things to deal with when designing rides now. They sometimes hit homeruns like the separate ADA loading station and the ride system for Pirates in Shanghai. Other times, they miss completely and deliver to Operations rides with no capacity.

One time Universal Creative messed with a high capacity ride is at Universal Studios Japan. Picture this: they finally built a high capacity roller coaster that could do more guests per hour than DLP Space Mountain. Its a Bolliger & Mabillard Hyper Coaster (like Mako at SeaWorld Florida) with a double station like Big Thunder Mountain. They could run 5 36 passenger trains on Hollywood Dream at once and get numbers that would make any other parks red with jealousy. So what did our good friends at Universal Creative do? Let's add Backward trains and call it "Backdrop"! Only one slight problem: they kept forward trains as well...

End result is this operational disaster: one Universal Express line, a single riders line for Backdrop, a regular line for Backdrop and a regular line for plain forward facing Hollywood Dream. You end up with standard line that barely moves since they also split Universal Express tickets where you get specific Forward or Backdrop slots. They also had to modify all the trains since to keep the same capacity, they had to install a second mechanical release system in both stations for the Backdrop trains and this lead as well to losing the restraint sensors. They now work with low tech pieces of tape placed on the lap bar and someone able to fit on Mako would require the bar to be shoved a good inch further in. On average, each train has 1-2 guests who can't fit and this again slows down the lines a lot.
Nice post.

In contrast, when you get beyond the pointless fastpass plus being added and it's merge point, see how well SSE still loads still using pretty much the same system it's had since 1982.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
The Pirates trailer was marketing genius. Easily one of the best Super Bowl movie trailers this decade. I mean just compare it to Transformers:hilarious:.

People may say otherwise, but for the majority... it really got people interested in a Pirates again.

Looking back at films (As a hobby I am really big into box office numbers) and depending on if the film is good I can easily see it again taking over a Billion. There's no way it will perform less than Hunger GamesCatching Fire unless it is bad or they fail to continue marketing it properly. I don't know when it is going to be released in China as potc and Transformers should do very well there. Domestically (again if it is good) there's no reason to expect it not to do 300M+ For people saying otherwise they have no idea how big the fanbase is for the franchise -- more casual though so don't expect lots of fans to have 2+ viewings like Star Wars or for the final Harry Potter.

It won't fail, but It's an ending/dying franchise. It sticks out sort of like a sore thumb amongst all the Marvel and Star Wars money makers. It's a different game. I really would be stunned to see a Pirates 6, but man, who knows? I liked the trailer but I had someone with me absolutely stunned Pirates was still around though ...

Glad to see more postings from @WDW1974 again! Welcome back! No questions at the moment .... but I want to point out that in one of your posts you mentioned, or maybe it was someone else, that it's like they don't even have a gameplan. Yep, that's exactly how they come across to me. Everytime Martin or another insider (not named you over the last year-ish) comes around and says, well, this is changing or they have stalled on this, or they can't decide what IP to stick where .... screams they are flying by the seat of their pants. Wouldn't, as a company, you have plans years out? You know what goes where and when and how much? In general? No?
 

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