A Spirited Perfect Ten

[WDWFigment]

Spirited Monday Musings:

I sat down here thinking I'd put out some interesting tidbits about Disney ... and I am struggling. WDW?!! I don't know what can be said. That the Harambe Marketplace was well done? Other than SQ issues with Disco Yeti, tree removal and needing more expansion, this IS the park for me when it comes to visiting WDW. Still cohesive, still true to its mission statement, still overflowing with detail. I've even heard that @WDWFigment has come around, although I fear he still enjoys the MK greatly (or maybe he says that because it helps his BRAND?)

I do still enjoy the MK. Immensely so, in fact. I say that here because I know this is one place, if any, that professing enjoyment of the Magic Kingdom isn't going to score me any of those coveted 'brand' points. (Moreover, I would hope by this point you've accepted that the opinions I share are the opinions I have, and not contrived for the sake of 'brand.')

For all of the (legitimate) criticism that there is of the Magic Kingdom, of the Walt Disney World parks, it still has the best slate of attractions and some well-themed areas. To be sure, there are areas of blight (Tomorrowland), but I don't think the situation is as dire as it's made out to be here.

I will also readily admit that I have a bit of a blind spot for some things in the Magic Kingdom thanks to nostalgia (Carousel of Progress, Peoplemover, etc.), but my recognition of that doesn't alter my belief that it's still a good--albeit flawed, as are they all--park.

 

[WDW1974]

Couple Thoughts. I'm enjoying the hell out of Golden State - Cleveland although I don't think @OSUgirl77 is convinced.

I got very tired of the LeBron circus after four years here. He's certainly an amazing talent and I give the Cavs and the man lots of credit. I thought they'd never get past Atlanta and they completely outmatched them.

I'm excited for Inside Out. Hopefully this means Pixar is back to its old self.

I don't think Pixar was ever gone. They put out what was largely a child's film designed to move merchandise (and it did and continues to!) on the heels of one of their best in TS3. Then followed it up with a very-troubled production in Brave that was still OK. And then came Monsters U, which was quite entertaining, but people expect greatness from them all the time. It's a very high bar.

Read Sandra's story for Uni's 25th. I really dont see Disney reacting to Universal at all, like that one quote alleges. Sounds like a daily story, rather than an in-depth analysis of what Disney is up to and their crowds. I like her and have noting against her, though I would like to see more in-depth pieces.

Disney is acting like its favorite BRAND advocate in Lou Mongello. Universal? I know not of what you speak! Except that do worry behind the scenes. ... The story had no substance, no meat at all to it. In an age where you can put unlimited content online, the idea of writing 18-24 inch business pieces is just dumb. I don't like or dislike her. Much like most of her predecessors, I think she is doing a lousy job. Of course, I'm willing to bet that the woman doesn't even make $50K a year. That's pathetic.

The Studios? Well despite them being my whipping boy and a really crappy first 5 months, SWW is pulling crowds and the data is showing that the Studios have been busier than the other parks on those days. They've had as many peak crowd days this month as they did in all of May. We'll see what trend continues here as the summer goes on, though they seem in lock-step with the resort as a whole right now, which has been slammed the past two weeks.

SWWs are the equivalent of HHNs at UNI. They greatly inflate the visitorship. What do we have? One more weekend? Then, it will be back to normal except for Guests who weren't there last year and can look at the Frozen offerings as new.

Here's a really fun question. Len makes his crowd data available to anyone for a subscription basis, like many other research companies. Why am I the only person looking at that as some sort of a metric as to how busy Disney is and where the people go? There has to be more than a cursory glance at the numbers, more than just lip-service to the TEA numbers. None of them mean much but they are indicators of whats going on.

I doubt that you are. You just are the only online guy who is taking the numbers apart. If the research is valuable, then it is being taken apart. Just like our posts. Depends on who's talking about what, but we are being read (some of us anyway) in all sorts of places.

As for surge-pricing? Thats just a surge into your wallet and going to be an guest service nightmare if they pull that baloney.

It's coming. Just a question of when, where and to what extent ... otherwise, it wouldn't have been leaked and pushed in the media. YOU know that!

 

[ItlngrlBella]

Your avatars are killing me, please stop. In a John Wayne Gacey/Ed Gein kind of way

I'm superstitious and my 'Hawks aren't doing as well as I had hoped right now (tied). I change avatars, hoping their luck will change. Lol.

I can't take these 4th period OT's and games that are running past midnight. I think I've developed an ulcer and though I've never taken Xanax, I think I need one.

When the Finals are over they'll be less manic.

 

[ItlngrlBella]

Oh crap, now it's 3-2 Bolts... With 3:11 in the 3rd. I can't take this.

 

[WDW1974]

He's alive! I just was trying to get your attention without shooting you a note! I damn well knew you'd say this. But I still disagree. Very much so. It would be my least favorite FL park if The Corpse of The Disney-MGM Studios actually had ... well ... what do you call them? Oh, yeah, attractions!

I do still enjoy the MK. Immensely so, in fact. I say that here because I know this is one place, if any, that professing enjoyment of the Magic Kingdom isn't going to score me any of those coveted 'brand' points. (Moreover, I would hope by this point you've accepted that the opinions I share are the opinions I have, and not contrived for the sake of 'brand.')

In my eyes, liking the MK is cause for you to lose BRAND cred. But I'm not Cupcake at CP!

For all of the (legitimate) criticism that there is of the Magic Kingdom, of the Walt Disney World parks, it still has the best slate of attractions and some well-themed areas. To be sure, there are areas of blight (Tomorrowland), but I don't think the situation is as dire as it's made out to be here.

Would you really say that the MK is not the weakest castle park in the world, except, perhaps, in number of attractions?

Would you also not say that MK has the worst show quality (not talking peeling paint, dead bulbs or potholes in walkways) of any castle park?

Would you not say that MK has the most limited entertainment offerings -- and the most stale -- of any castle park?

Sir, you are under oath.

I will also readily admit that I have a bit of a blind spot for some things in the Magic Kingdom thanks to nostalgia (Carousel of Progress, Peoplemover, etc.), but my recognition of that doesn't alter my belief that it's still a good--albeit flawed, as are they all--park.

I think nostalgia can be a dangerous thing if it clouds judgment. I have a very weak spot for EPCOT (likely no surprise). But when I am walking around WS on one of our 67 nights where the temps and overall weather make it pleasant, I can almost forget that they totally destroyed FW and are fast at work on WS now. I think you've got it bad for the MK and simply ignore things. And you don't have the old pre-2010 TB excuse of not having comparison views since you've now visited all the parks that Disney IP appears on the globe.

I'd rather be in almost any Disney or non-Disney park than MK now because it in no way resembled the park I visited in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

 

[WDW1974]

Here is another article I found that I thought was interesting. I believe that it is older (2012) but it is still more than relevant to what has been going on regarding the development of the idea of a Shanghai park and how Disney is going about its business. I does highlight that even thought he Shendi Group is the majority owner, the Disney Company still owns the majority of the overall managing group that controls the decision rights to the theme park.

http://www.amcham-shanghai.org/amchamportal/InfoVault_Library/2012/Insight-Mickey-takes-Shanghai.pdf

No one is disputing the fact that contractually Disney owns 70% of the management company.

What is in dispute is how much real control Disney actually has (my answer: not very much at all!)

 

[lazyboy97o]

No one is disputing the fact that contractually Disney owns 70% of the management company.

What is in dispute is how much real control Disney actually has (my answer: not very much at all!)

Because management is not executive leadership.

 

[WDWFigment]

Would you really say that the MK is not the weakest castle park in the world, except, perhaps, in number of attractions?

Would you also not say that MK has the worst show quality (not talking peeling paint, dead bulbs or potholes in walkways) of any castle park?

Would you not say that MK has the most limited entertainment offerings -- and the most stale -- of any castle park?

Sir, you are under oath.

Make no mistake--for what should be the flagship park of the flagship resort in the world, the Magic Kingdom doesn't meet the bar that it should.

Additionally, it cannot touch Disneyland or Tokyo Disneyland on any level.

So that leaves us with a comparison to DLP and HKDL...

In terms of attractions, I'd put it ahead of both DLP and HKDL.

In terms of general design and beauty, it is inferior to DLP and possibly HKDL.

In terms of SQS, it is superior to DLP but inferior to HKDL.

In terms of entertainment, that's a tough call because neither DLP nor HKDL charge for seasonal entertainment. I'm inclined to give them both the nod over MK as a result--and that they both have new seasonal entertainment.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

This should be shoved in the face of every Imagineer who says they are a "storyteller".
http://biblioklept.org/2015/06/08/the-artist-must-not-become-a-storyteller-balthus/

 

[WDW1974]

Actually... I was in DLP 8 days ago! (Currently in the middle of writing a Trip Report in the Trip Reports section!). I've been there many times... but mostly in the 90's. It did seem special then and I used to love visiting. I've only been twice in the last 10 years, 2011 and then last week. And I have to say though, even with re-investment (and I know there is a lot ongoing now, as well as more to come) that it still is in pretty rough shape- we just spent a day there, but it was enough for the time being. A lot of the problems that people people complain about here regarding WDW are a lot worse in DLP- maintenance, cleanliness, customer service, expense... we're not really inclined to go back for quite a long time.

Whereas, we still find a lot of value in Orlando, which is why we still spend 2-3 weeks there. Not all onsite, but often at least half the time. They're not discouraging us yet... so that's where I will disagree with you. Maybe if we only went to Disney and exclusively Disney for all our holidays it might decrease in value and appeal to us, I don't know. I honestly haven't noticed a huge bump-up in prices in our on-site stays in the last 5 years. So for now we're still happy to visit!
When in DLP I kept thinking- now I can see chipped paint, faded buildings, holes in the pavement, filthy restrooms, rude CM's, litter, a lack of atmosphere, QS meals that were 3x the price of those in the US parks... And this is what is described of WDW, yet when I'm at WDW myself, I honestly do not see most if not all of the main complaints. I can see them in DLP so I'm not a crazy brand addict... so I don't know.

One resort has teetered on the edge of the financial abyss for much of its two plus decades and has been hamstrung with debt. The other is a virtual ATM for its parent corp. I would expect WDW to be in far better shape, far better run than DLP. In some ways it is, in others it is not.

The dollar has fallen recently but not enough for prices to be higher than back home... I'm not sure that will happen really... Everything always appears cheaper! It may become similar in price perhaps, I don't think that prices will ever be more expensive than in the UK! Well, except for UK products in the US supermarkets! HOW much for a tin of baked beans and a jar of Marmite?!

WDW has been a HUGE bargain for UKers for much of the past few decades. If I lived in the UK, where the weather is gloomy about 80% of the year, and the options were going to Paris (where many UKers still hate the French and are fighting wars from the 1500s) where the prices are higher and the weather is similar or 'exotic' O-Town with sun and as much as a 75% off advantage, I'd be getting on that Virgin 747.

Trust me, the prices for food here are insane for actual Americans. Just spent $100 at Publix and I don't see any actual food here.

Edited to add: I guess I'm more of a grey area person- I don't see why everything has to be "Disney is awesome" vs "Disney is rubbish- look at all the other places you could go instead! Why would anyone go or waste their money?!" instead of "There's lots of great things and places to see all over... you could go to this state which is great, or this country which is great, or experience this unique thing over here... or, if you're looking for a theme park holiday, Disney/Orlando is a great place to go."
Disney is still far ahead of a lot of theme park resort destinations (not getting into a Uni vs Disney debate, I like and enjoy both tremendously). For example, as I have recently seen- Disneyland Paris. WDW is miles ahead. And so if a theme park resort holiday is what you're wanting to go for, then Orlando is the place to visit. If it's not, then go somewhere else, of course! Or, like we do... do both.

I had a great holiday visit to DLP in early 2014 (caught the last few days of Christmas stuff too) and stayed at Sequoia Lodge's Golden Forest Club. It was a wonderful trip and almost across the board showed improvement from my prior visit in 2012. Slowly but surely they are getting the place in shape.

But like I said, I'm not a Brit. If I were, then I certainly get the appeal of a Florida holiday!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

WDW has been a HUGE bargain for UKers for much of the past few decades. If I lived in the UK, where the weather is gloomy about 80% of the year, and the option were going to Paris (where many UKers still hate the French and are fighting wars from the 1500s) where the prices are higher and the weather is similar or 'exotic' O-Town with sun and as much as a 75% off advantage, I'd be getting on that Virgin 747.

Don't forget the other Orlando parks, the nearby beaches, ports for Caribbean cruises and cheap (for them) shopping. None of which is offered in or around DLP.

They associate "Disney" with a sun holiday. DLP, no matter how attractive or convenient to Paris, can never give them that (not even in the French summer).

This is the one thing that absolutely would have been different had DLP been built in Spain.

 

[WDW1974]

Make no mistake--for what should be the flagship park of the flagship resort in the world, the Magic Kingdom doesn't meet the bar that it should.

Do not place this statement of absolute truth on the first page of your Blog. Truth can be hard to digest.

Additionally, it cannot touch Disneyland or Tokyo Disneyland on any level.

Except for food portion size in Tokyo, which is much smaller (although the variety and quality sorta make up for it!) than MK and DL.

So that leaves us with a comparison to DLP and HKDL...

In terms of attractions, I'd put it ahead of both DLP and HKDL.

In terms of general design and beauty, it is inferior to DLP and possibly HKDL.

HKDL is easy to say because they still need another 3-4 major attractions (one coming next year!) But DLP. I'll take that attraction roster over MK's. I'd say DLP is more beautiful in design, while HKDL is more beautiful in terms of location and natural beauty.

In terms of SQS, it is superior to DLP but inferior to HKDL.

After my 2012 DLP visit, I would have agreed. But after last year's visit combined with 5-6 visits to WDW since then, I'd disagree. SQSs were noticeably higher in 2014 and with a few exceptions (Mansion and HoP and the new mine train) MK's attractions are all in fair to should be shutdown immediately show shape. Only Small World had that look in Paris last year, although they had changed the bulbs on the outside flume where literally 91% of them were dead in 2012. BTMRR had some issues, but has so many more effects to begin with in Paris and the MK version has had lots of issues.

In terms of entertainment, that's a tough call because neither DLP nor HKDL charge for seasonal entertainment. I'm inclined to give them both the nod over MK as a result--and that they both have new seasonal entertainment.

Agreed.

And that's why my castle park rankings are as follows:

1.) DL (started it all, NoS/Club 33 redo aside, all recent moves have been positive);
2.) TDL (the way things should be run the world over);
3.) DLP (the most beautiful MK of them all);
4.) HKDL (location, service, seasonal offerings and unique high quality E-Tix make up for small attraction roster);
5.) MK (not the fairest of them all, unless you mean the park gets a grade of 'fair');

 

[invader]

Yep. I agree. I have one 10 minutes away that gets a lot of business from me.

Trust me, the prices for food here are insane for actual Americans. Just spent $100 at Publix and I don't see any actual food here.

Faux 1%er, Grand Lux 10 minutes away from you, and shopping at Publix? You wouldn't happen to be from the Boca area would you..?

 

[Cesar R M]

He's not in the show....

dont ruin my moment dave!

 

[Cesar R M]

So you disagree that you should treat people with respect and courtesy? OK. I will chose to treat everyone with respect and common courtesy until they give me a reason not to do so.

not online, I remain neutral.
Maybe you do not have the experience I have in online "interactions".
and you again confused things.. Respect is one thing. Giving Courtesy is another.

 

[Cesar R M]

Couple thoughts....

Oh "Disney Parks" ..... part of the "OneDisney" initiative. Its why I hate marketing people. Behind the scenes? Makes perfect sense to have the same IT and basic HR procedures. But marketing? Thats insane. As barstow said, it was a hairbrained idea and perhaps... just perhaps we have gotten to the point where we push away from it. I will gladly accept the generic, recycled napkins over something that says "Disney Parks" on it. Another example of how an attempt to save money just upsets the fans.

A Lou/Rickey/lifestyler documentary? Well, hope they can fund it. Kickstarter isnt the way. Find someone with a trust fund, get some financing and sell it to NetFlix. The odds of this being anywhere near balanced are zero....

And the Stock. $110/share as the "Dizzznneeeeee is a business" crowd loves to tout, strutting around like a bunch of peacocks thinking they're Mick Jagger wanting to nail that Caitlyn girl in the front row.... One would think that with the current success of the stock, overall growth of the company and all the happy talk inside Glendale that they would have a Summer promotion at WDW. "Frozen Summer Fun Part 2: The Frozening" just doesnt work for me. Although a quick look at Len's observed crowd data, says the parks have been hopping with Studios just getting killed of late. Good problem (Its Busy, more people, yay!) yet bad problem (more revenue, we dont need to actually start construction anytime soon on anything and can keep dragging our feet) But would the stock split before Star Wars? The trailer itself moved the stock price. Think about that just for a second... a 2 minute movie trailer moved the stock price. Has that ever happened before? No. They're going to keep riding this train until it finishes the Kessel Run.

Regarding kickstarter and other similar initiatives..
you will be surprised how many people donate for completely dumb things.

But then.. you know the saying.. a fool and their money...

 

[Cesar R M]

Well, documented by this group on the boards. No facts back it up and there could be other reasons for the change. Could be cost, could be to curtail the handfuls that disappear and are taken home as souvenirs, could be ecological, but, it really doesn't matter what you wipe the ketchup off your face with and then promptly throw in the trash can (or with today's crowd, the ground). An embossed paper napkin never has logically added to anyone's enjoyment of the parks.

Even if it is a cost cutting method that some think is trivial, it is because of the inability to see the big picture and realize how many of those things that they basically, due to the nature of the product, throw away every single day.

When I think of the napkins and cups, I always think about people buying Packages of napkins or cups for their home or for parties.
I dont think the generic ones are attractive in that aspect.

 

[Cesar R M]

They have UNIVERSAL ORLANDO BUTTER!!! It brought back so many memories of the "D globe" butter from the old WDW days. I'm sure it was a direct shot from someone at Universal Creative and I LOVE IT

so they have butter, will they have branded elbow grease too?

Is that the parade that was "glowing away" in the mid-1990s. It's still running at the busiest theme park in the world in 2015? Surely, you can't be serious.

He's surly not, and dont call him shirley.
anyway...be nice.. he's sheltered..

 

[Cesar R M]

Just a hunch, but I see DCL's new ships coming aboard in 2021 and 2023.

I wonder, will they be a mixture of the smaller and the bigger ships (as in design).
or will they have bigger changes?

The Castle float did die though, didn't it?

nope, still used in the 24 parties.
They used it to move the frozen gals

 

[Cesar R M]

I can't read it online, because it's behind the OS paywall (paying for the Sentinel's content warrants a ).

But it's not surprising that the story was slanted that way. Mickey is untouchable in the Orlando economy. The Sentinel's reporters have always treated WDW with kid gloves, so I'm not surprised that Sandra was knighting up for the pixie dust.

I'm surprised she didn't mention Avatar is "coming soon" (in a mere two years!) -- even Potter in Hollywood is opening before then (next spring). I guess it takes time to achieve blue cat-people attraction greatness.

Speaking of Avatar, I stumbled across the official Avatar Twitter page today. Evidently, it's main purpose is to teach you "Avatar" language (what is that, Navi'ian or some garbage)? Side note: Oh my gosh, the weirdos who are going to show up for the grand opening should make for some incredible people watching.

Anyway, the lolz part is Avatar's official page has 29k followers. That's 29,000.

By way of comparison, the official Harry Potter page has 1.72 million followers. Only 1.69 million more than Avatar. That's a crude metric, but I was shocked. I thought Avatar would have had a bigger online presence. Even the news this week that HP would be involved with creating some digital world with Avatar seemed to land with a thud. The comments I read were pretty dismissive and more along the lines of, "Huh?"

Is Iger gonna still be around when this thing opens?

I wonder if the Naviían language will give a run to our amazing (and full of laughs) Trovaltizing language (from John Travolta of Adele Dassem popularity)

Now that would be a cool themed bathroom.

If a bathroom played like that. I dont think even the most constipated man on earth... will leave without crapping himself.