A Spirited Perfect Ten

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
OK...I was shopping on Oxford Street in January. The Star Wars dresses were in one of Selfridge's (huge)main windows (for men/foreigners ;), Selfridges is *probably* the most important/influential department store in England). There was a Luke Skywalker dress that was particularly striking, but women (of all ages/stations) were queuing up to have their photograph taken in front of all the dresses. Queuing up. So obviously they captured the attention of us XX chromosome types.

I remember thinking...those are SO INCONGRUOUS AND FUNNY...but where could I wear one? Does Comic Con even have a formal night? :D

So I DO find it credible that a woman could find the dresses striking and would think...hey, the Oscars...that's probably one of the FEW places I could wear that Yoda dress.

I think WB is in a bit of a Calpurnia situation here (as @Bolna tried to describe). Caesar's wife has to be more than just not guilty in FACT, she also has APPEAR not guilty of any shenanigans. And this was at the very least, bad timing. :cautious:

One woman's opinion only. But I tell you now (and you married men know this already ;))...if a woman wants a special frock, she's going to find somewhere to wear it in order to justify its purchase.
seems they're doing perfect synced and proactive advertisements for the following star wars movies.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
True. It may actually be less than 5%. I would think Hong Kong is a lot more likely than Shanghai. I know I am very unlikely to ever visit.

I do have an interest in what goes on there even without planning on visiting. It may be more of an academic interest than a practical one. If TWDC is going to spend money on P&R projects anywhere I am interested. Success or failure could have a major impact on the domestic parks. The issues with Euro Disney had a major impact on the stripped down version of DCA that eventually opened. If this project is a flop and it's a drain on P&R results and capital spend it could be very bad news for future projects at DHS or further down the road at EPCOT or even a WDW 5th gate. If the park is a smash hit it makes justifying future P&R capital spend a lot easier. This project has the size and scope to potentially set the company back a decade or more if it's a real train wreck. I know people want Iger to look bad, but as a fan of WDW I can't see how failure on this project would be a good thing.
I believe it's also the reason they cut back on Animal Kingdom and why Beastly Kingdom was pushed to "phase 2" and then just cut indefinitely. It's probably the root of a lot of things we don't like about how WDW is run today.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I believe it's also the reason they cut back on Animal Kingdom and why Beastly Kingdom was pushed to "phase 2" and then cut indefinitely.
Could be. These major projects have a ripple effect across the company. Not unlike MM+ Cost overruns being rumored to have caused delays in major plans. I assume if it wasn't for issues with Shanghai and MM+ we would have already broken ground on SW at DHS and Avatar might even be opening next year. The success of Carsland and FLE are at least positives towards future projects for WDW.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It just goes to show what you and I know about fashion. As it turns out Yoda and SpongeBob Squarepants are the fashion rage this year!
Rita-Ora-in-Leicester-Square_3_31_14_01.jpg
The Star Wars dresses were kinda cool in a Star Wars geek kinda way...this is just...no
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I believe it's also the reason they cut back on Animal Kingdom and why Beastly Kingdom was pushed to "phase 2" and then just cut indefinitely. It's probably the root of a lot of things we don't like about how WDW is run today.

With Disney in China a fiscal train wreck is more likely than a runaway success...
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
This bit of news from Box Office Mojo ties into the overall discussion of Disney in China:

"Big Hero 6 opened to $14.8 million in China this weekend, which is the biggest debut ever for a Disney animated release. Overall, it took in $21.6 million for a new total of $351.3 million.

The Disney Animation movie has now earned $572 million worldwide, and will absolutely be passing $600 million by the end of its run."


I would suspect the reason BH6 is doing well in China is that the movie has more in common with the recent slate of Marvel movies (which do big business in China, unlike Japan for some reason) vs. traditional Disney fare like Frozen.

Paraphrasing Hulk after using Loki as a dog toy, "Puny Box office..." Compare the 21.1 Million that BH6 did to NBC/Universal's Transformers which did 300+ Million in China, Seems like the Chinese are kind of "meh to Disney's products
 

DisneyDrum

Well-Known Member
With Disney in China a fiscal train wreck is more likely than a runaway success...

That's the scary part. Wall Street hasn't yet figured out that Disney is shoveling money into Shanghai. When they have to actually account for the additional spending or attendance underperforms (which it will), the real budget cuts will start. Many of us want Disney to have new leadership, but that road is going to be really painful...
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Paraphrasing Hulk after using Loki as a dog toy, "Puny Box office..." Compare the 21.1 Million that BH6 did to NBC/Universal's Transformers which did 300+ Million in China, Seems like the Chinese are kind of "meh to Disney's products

Why would you compare the total gross of Transfromers 4's run vs just the opening weekend of BH6?

For that matter, are you saying any US release in China that doesn't make around $300 million is a disappointment? Because pretty much any movie would be by comparison. GotG made around $100 million in China and Iron Man 3 $121 million, does that mean they're "meh" on Marvel?
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Why would you compare the total gross of Transfromers 4's run vs just the opening weekend of BH6?

For that matter, are you saying any US release in China that doesn't make around $300 million is a disappointment? Because pretty much any movie would be by comparison. GotG made around $100 million in China and Iron Man 3 $121 million, does that mean they're "meh" on Marvel?

Yes, That's EXACTLY what I mean in China the pattern has been that Disney movies make 1/3 or less than an equivalent picture by NBC/Universal. So I'd say that is a strong indicator that Disney does not UNDERSTAND the Chinese market well enough to make money there.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
That's the scary part. Wall Street hasn't yet figured out that Disney is shoveling money into Shanghai. When they have to actually account for the additional spending or attendance underperforms (which it will), the real budget cuts will start. Many of us want Disney to have new leadership, but that road is going to be really painful...

Yes it is - and If the China train wreck happens I would not be surprised to see a 'Closed for Refurbishment' sign hung on DHS gate because the cuts needed to survive will be enormous.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Yes, That's EXACTLY what I mean in China the pattern has been that Disney movies make 1/3 or less than an equivalent picture by NBC/Universal. So I'd say that is a strong indicator that Disney does not UNDERSTAND the Chinese market well enough to make money there.
unless they're pulling the same mentality of the US parks in to the chinese market

aka the "meh, good enough" kind.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
unless they're pulling the same mentality of the US parks in to the chinese market

aka the "meh, good enough" kind.

Possible but that can backfire big time as a LOT of companies are bringing their 'A' game and team to China because they are hungry and WANT to succeed, They don't have the Disney mindset that success is preordained because they are the TWDC.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Yes, That's EXACTLY what I mean in China the pattern has been that Disney movies make 1/3 or less than an equivalent picture by NBC/Universal.

What NBC/Universal movies in China have made $300 million? Transformers is a Paramount release, and the highest grossing ever in China.

That's like saying Avengers was a dud because Avatar made more.
 

Tigger1988

Well-Known Member
Yes, That's EXACTLY what I mean in China the pattern has been that Disney movies make 1/3 or less than an equivalent picture by NBC/Universal. So I'd say that is a strong indicator that Disney does not UNDERSTAND the Chinese market well enough to make money there.
You compared an opening weekend total to a total gross and completely invalidated any point you were attempting to prove.

Not to mention Transformers wasn't even a NBC/Universal release, as Animaniac mentioned.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
What NBC/Universal movies in China have made $300 million? Transformers is a Paramount release, and the highest grossing ever in China.

That's like saying Avengers was a dud because Avatar made more.

Well Excuuussse Me for incorrectly stating the studio And the invincible Frozen made a paltry 49.1 Million in china. yeah Disney is a rousing success there. Visit china soon, Check out the characters you see - they are not DISNEY but Hello Kitty is everywhere from babies to urban professional women.

But we all know Disney will be number one in China because they are Disney, Right - That seems to be your point. Having BEEN there myself I don't see Disney's success as inevitable more of a coin toss which can go either way
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Well Excuuussse Me for incorrectly stating the studio And the invincible Frozen made a paltry 49.1 Million in china. yeah Disney is a rousing success there. Visit china soon, Check out the characters you see - they are not DISNEY but Hello Kitty is everywhere from babies to urban professional women.

But we all know Disney will be number one in China because they are Disney, Right - That seems to be your point. Having BEEN there myself I don't see Disney's success as inevitable more of a coin toss which can go either way
I agree that I'm nervous about the prospects of this project. That opinion hasn't changed for me since the beginning. I don't think anything that has happened so far in the construction process is surprising or unprecedented. Disney projects run over budget and behind schedule. It's a given.

One slight point of contention I have with your post. I don't think having been to China makes you an expert on the market. I've been to Vegas a bunch of times but I wouldn't know the first thing about running a casino;). It's quite possible for people to understand a market without frequently traveling there.
 

John

Well-Known Member
I agree that I'm nervous about the prospects of this project. That opinion hasn't changed for me since the beginning. I don't think anything that has happened so far in the construction process is surprising or unprecedented. Disney projects run over budget and behind schedule. It's a given.

One slight point of contention I have with your post. I don't think having been to China makes you an expert on the market. I've been to Vegas a bunch of times but I wouldn't know the first thing about running a casino;). It's quite possible for people to understand a market without frequently traveling there.


But if you were in Vegas doing business with a casino you would know what its like to do business in Vegas with a casino....Still might know what its like to run a casino.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
But if you were in Vegas doing business with a casino you would know what its like to do business in Vegas with a casino....Still might know what its like to run a casino.
Agreed. If you work on theme parks in China or even worked on setting up American retail stores you would have a lot more knowledge of the market. Just traveling there for either pleasure or unrelated business doesn't guarantee you know the market there well.
 

John

Well-Known Member
I am not going to defend ford......he is a big boy and can defend himself....I don't want to come across doing so....but my point was that you said he wasn't an expert, I don't know if he is or isn't....do you? What we do know if we were taking his post at face value is that he has had business dealings in China. That right there makes him more of an "expert" then most of us. Is building and operating a theme park different then just having some widgets manufactured or what ever type of business he was dealing in different? Sure, but even the most uniformed poster ( such as myself) knows that doing business in China means doing business with the Chinese government. Which gives ford a certain insight most of us don't have. Is he an expert? Does he have to be?

How many on here comment about WDW and its operation here in the states? How many of them are experts on running a theme park in the United States?
 

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