A Spirited Perfect Ten

[Mike S]

In order for the toddlers to be begging them, Disney needs to get some info out there about this. Isn't this supposed to open early 2016?

Yes and we haven't gotten a peep since the announcement. Meanwhile other projects are getting announced left and right with some opening a year or more after Frostrom with concept art to boot, including stuff for Tokyo Disneyland. Very strange.

 

[Next Big Thing]

DAK opened in 1998. Excluding timeshares, between the opening of DAK and the opening of WWOHP (a 12-year timespan), WDW added 2 hotels: AKL in 2001 and POP in 2003.

IOA opened in 1999.

It's misleading to write "try to remember that the previous 15 years they did almost nothing while WDW added an entire park and a gazillion resort hotels."

Eh, they may be timeshares, but you can still pay cash for them and they've added thousands of rooms to the resort so I think it's fair to account for them...

 

[Next Big Thing]

Someone suggested to me that Disney is internally projecting 15-20% attendance growth at Epcot because of that one ride.

I'm gonna suggest 5-7% IMO

Yes, but even if it does grow 15-20%, where is that coming from? Is that new attendance, or just people skipping out on DHS/DAK?

 

[Next Big Thing]

I missed Staggs' comment, but I also wouldn't consider Roger Rabbit a classic attraction. I love the IP and as such, I have a fondness for the attraction but for me it's like replacing Jaws... it stinks to lose a personal favorite but it truly sounds like something better is coming.

Jaws should not be compared to Roger Rabbit Spin in this manner at all. Jaws was a true classic attraction that unfortunately took up way too much space at a resort in desperate need of it. Roger Rabbit Spin takes up very little space and is much less of an experience.

 

[ford91exploder]

So, are you saying that wdw talent (imagineers) want out of Orlando and would hope to get assigned to other places, like SDL for example, to do projects?
Or are they jumping ship entirely and heading to other theme parks/careers?

In my case I was speaking about the CM attitudes more than anything as you can tell when you are dealing with a happy employee and except for AK (where most still seem to enjoy their jobs and interacting with guests) the vibe is definitely downbeat.

But there have been a LOT of high profile departures from WDI to UNI creative and regional parks and chains.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Yes, but even if it does grow 15-20%, where is that coming from? Is that new attendance, or just people skipping out on DHS/DAK?

I just repeat what I hear.... My personal guess/opinion is just taking from other parks. Probably 5% new attendance growth from the attraction itself.

So in this scenario, Epcot becomes a 40k/day park and has a huge demand for an attraction that has a 900/hr HRC. 10,800 guests over 12 hours..... 3/4ths of the daily audience will miss out.

There's going to be some upset little girls and some insanely long lines.

 

[bcoachable]

In my case I was speaking about the CM attitudes more than anything as you can tell when you are dealing with a happy employee and except for AK (where most still seem to enjoy their jobs and interacting with guests) the vibe is definitely downbeat.

But there have been a LOT of high profile departures from WDI to UNI creative and regional parks and chains.

This is scares me more than Iger screwing up Disney entry into China...
No offense, Spirit...

 

[BrianLo]

I just repeat what I hear.... My personal guess/opinion is just taking from other parks. Probably 5% new attendance growth from the attraction itself.

So in this scenario, Epcot becomes a 40k/day park and has a huge demand for an attraction that has a 900/hr HRC. 10,800 guests over 12 hours..... 3/4ths of the daily audience will miss out.

There's going to be some upset little girls and some insanely long lines.

Do you know what bump DHS received from Frozen? That's probably as good as an indication as we'll get.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Do you know what bump DHS received from Frozen? That's probably as good as an indication as we'll get.

Not numbers wise, but anecdotaly and personal observation? It saved Studios last summer.

This summer? IDK.

 

[BrianLo]

Not numbers wise, but anecdotaly and personal observation? It saved Studios last summer.

This summer? IDK.

I actually don't doubt Frozen will post big numbers to Epcot, and I'm actually kind of afraid that it will move the meter more than Kong (as sad as it is).

But - I am absolutely with you that unless capacity increases in a spectacular manner, it's going to be causing more guest dissatisfaction than it is worth. That's on top of concerns of whether it will actually be a passable attraction...

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Late Night Mug Musing:

Just saw on the main page here that Disney has LOWERED the price of those darn refillable mugs at the value resorts and Port Orleans from $17.99 to $16.49 and eliminated the option for 1-2-3 days at lesser prices.

Gee, when Disney lowers pricing for something you know it's because there's clearly a disconnect between what they want to charge and what Guests are willing to pay (yes, it happens so infrequently).

Or maybe ... Guests want a mug that is quality and is resort specific. Or maybe they just have 'mug fatigue' ... a clinical condition whereby Guests get tired of having to buy a new one for every visit.

I don't know. I steal the stuff where I can. And where I can't, I buy what is either called a 'small' or a 'kid's' depending on location (it was 99 cents, now it's $1.29 -- and, yes, Disney is making a HUGE profit at that price) since my 'lifetime mugs' are no longer good and I get plenty at that point. If I knew the system was off at the Mara last month, then I could have saved that $1.29!

 

[PhotoDave219]

I actually don't doubt Frozen will post big numbers to Epcot, and I'm actually kind of afraid that it will move the meter more than Kong (as sad as it is).

But - I am absolutely with you that unless capacity increases in a spectacular manner, it's going to be causing more guest dissatisfaction than it is worth. That's on top of concerns of whether it will actually be a passable attraction...

Well @marni1971 knows details of Frozenstrom. I dont.

They have to somehow expand capacity or they're gonna be hosed.

Then they need to drop 500M on Future World and Make it Rain.

 

[WDW1974]

I agree. It's funny that you mention that because when we were in Orlando this past weekend, I was thinking about what a heck of a rebound there has been in Orlando since 9/11 (and we lived there before and after for several years in Orlando at the time) and wondered about if any type of conflict would cause a huge disruption in what has been built back up there.

Yeah, it took until 2005 to get totally back to normal (and then some) ... and it kept building right through 2008. Then, it crashed along with the economy again. I still can recall the last truly empty day at the MK I experienced on a wonderfully gloomy December 2009 day.

 

[ford91exploder]

I just repeat what I hear.... My personal guess/opinion is just taking from other parks. Probably 5% new attendance growth from the attraction itself.

So in this scenario, Epcot becomes a 40k/day park and has a huge demand for an attraction that has a 900/hr HRC. 10,800 guests over 12 hours..... 3/4ths of the daily audience will miss out.

There's going to be some upset little girls and some insanely long lines.

And so the 'Premium FastPass' was born, Want to see Frozen pay 9.99 (non-refundable and payable 90 days in advance...)

 

[TP2000]

So in this scenario, Epcot becomes a 40k/day park and has a huge demand for an attraction that has a 900/hr HRC. 10,800 guests over 12 hours..... 3/4ths of the daily audience will miss out.

There's going to be some upset little girls and some insanely long lines.

I remember a few years ago watching the Maelstrom waterfall outside the Norway pavilion, and noticing how infrequent the boats appeared and then got sent backwards over the falls. And the boats only seat 12 people max; three people each in four rows. With a boat appearing every 45 seconds or so. I didn't do the exact math, but it's a relatively low capacity ride.

Your 900 riders per hour figure sounds about right, assuming it's operating at peak efficiency and every row has 3 people instead of 2 and there are no breakdowns.

900 per hour for the new Mega-Hype Frozen Ride in a park that routinely gets 50,000+ daily visitors during busy times of year. Yikes!

 

[StageFrenzy]

Well @marni1971 knows details of Frozenstrom. I dont.

They have to somehow expand capacity or they're gonna be hosed.

Then they need to drop 500M on Future World and Make it Rain.

Like many people on this board I am giddy with excitement picturing the opening of frozen and the maelstrom of complaints at guest services.

 

[WDW1974]

On one of the forums discussing this survey, they said a question was included about willingness to pay a higher rate to guarantee lower attendance. So would you be willing to pay that additional $20 to guarantee that you were in the park on a high demanded day with less crowds? I know I would.

I'd like to pay based on the quality provided at said park versus what it was in years past.

Last night I put up a detailed post about a schedule I found from an October 1994 trip. I'd suggest that prices should be less than they were then based on the quality Disney is offering. No attractions at the MK were even mildly offering poor show quality back then, FW at EPCOT wasn't a ghost town and Disney-MGM had a full day of things to see and do ... when it was $38 a day to get in. Why should people pay so much more now for so much less?

Ask George Kalogridis. The man knows.

 

[PhotoDave219]

And so the 'Premium FastPass' was born, Want to see Frozen pay 9.99 (non-refundable and payable 90 days in advance...)

I mean if a bunch of amateur them-park ops people on a message board can easily point out the fatal flaw and people inside didnt? You've got issues and You've clearly cultivated the wrong culture to support your park with.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Like many people on this board I am giddy with excitement picturing the opening of frozen and the maelstrom of complaints at guest services.

I'm really not. Guest Relations doesn't deserve the abuse that is created by the actions (and inaction) of the P&R leadership team from Glendale.

The people who made the decisions and deserve to be blasted will never interact with a guest. EVER.

 

[WDW1974]

And the British. British tourism kept the place afloat as well.

Alas.... Disney has alienated the locals and the AP holders....

They must have forgotten that one of the first post-9/11 moves that TDO made was to give EVERY APer a free three months on their existing passes. How quickly they forget ...