Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
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A Spirited Perfect Ten
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Just a note on the relative 'popularity' of Shanghai's new flagship Disney Store. Read the below first:
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/soci...ing?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
Now imagine what kind of waits you'd have at the WoD in O-Town or, since some would say that's not a fair comparison even though it is, at the Times Square Disney Store IF you only let 50 shoppers in at a time ... or 100 ... or, hell, let's double that to 200. Think you might have hours long queues, angry shoppers and the appearance that a location might be 'the place to be' -- even if it wasn't?
Yeah, think about that.
Three other pieces of housekeeping, two apparently mentioned in PR releases ... oops, I mean interviews from Tom Staggs and Mary Niven with the LA Times over the weekend:
1.) The no Magic Bands at DLR ... I knew this and told ya this. MM+ isn't coming to DL, no matter how much attention Tom Amity craves. BUT ... aspects of it most certainly will. Some already have in the FP'ing of the Frozen gals meet-greet-and-sleet and Fantasmic. You can expect to see others, so if that is your definition then NGE is coming to DLR. As to it coming to HKDL?!?! I strongly doubt that and my sources in Asia are damn near perfect. The park only has two FP attractions now in Space Mountain and the Winnie the Pooh dark ride. You could argue that on about 300 days a year, you don't even need it on those. It was on Buzz Lightyear, which has never needed it, and was removed for Iron Man construction. (There are no plans to bring it back.) So, not sure what aspects of NGE will wind up there.
2.) The strange statement by Staggs about no classic attractions being removed for Star Wars expansion ... As of a few months ago, Toontown was still the place SW was going. I haven't heard a thing to suggest otherwise. And what is ''classic'' is certainly open to interpretation.
3.) I saw Micechat's Andy 'Fidel's Little Brother' Castro attempt some explanation for the disastrous 24-hour day Friday/Saturday. Now, first, let me be clear I am not saying Andy is doing PR for TDA. I truly respect the young man for being honest about his opinions and I know he's reporting what was given to him from (likely) a fairly well-placed source.
The thing is, though, it doesn't excuse the fact TDA was woefully under-prepared for the crowd that showed up. If I had been them, I would have planned for well over 200,000 people considering all the factors. They didn't plan this event correctly at all. They once again luck out that there wasn't a major incident/stampede where people are injured or even killed. They act like they have no idea how to plan for and control crowds when Disney wrote the book on it.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/soci...ing?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
Now imagine what kind of waits you'd have at the WoD in O-Town or, since some would say that's not a fair comparison even though it is, at the Times Square Disney Store IF you only let 50 shoppers in at a time ... or 100 ... or, hell, let's double that to 200. Think you might have hours long queues, angry shoppers and the appearance that a location might be 'the place to be' -- even if it wasn't?
Yeah, think about that.
Three other pieces of housekeeping, two apparently mentioned in PR releases ... oops, I mean interviews from Tom Staggs and Mary Niven with the LA Times over the weekend:
1.) The no Magic Bands at DLR ... I knew this and told ya this. MM+ isn't coming to DL, no matter how much attention Tom Amity craves. BUT ... aspects of it most certainly will. Some already have in the FP'ing of the Frozen gals meet-greet-and-sleet and Fantasmic. You can expect to see others, so if that is your definition then NGE is coming to DLR. As to it coming to HKDL?!?! I strongly doubt that and my sources in Asia are damn near perfect. The park only has two FP attractions now in Space Mountain and the Winnie the Pooh dark ride. You could argue that on about 300 days a year, you don't even need it on those. It was on Buzz Lightyear, which has never needed it, and was removed for Iron Man construction. (There are no plans to bring it back.) So, not sure what aspects of NGE will wind up there.
2.) The strange statement by Staggs about no classic attractions being removed for Star Wars expansion ... As of a few months ago, Toontown was still the place SW was going. I haven't heard a thing to suggest otherwise. And what is ''classic'' is certainly open to interpretation.
3.) I saw Micechat's Andy 'Fidel's Little Brother' Castro attempt some explanation for the disastrous 24-hour day Friday/Saturday. Now, first, let me be clear I am not saying Andy is doing PR for TDA. I truly respect the young man for being honest about his opinions and I know he's reporting what was given to him from (likely) a fairly well-placed source.
The thing is, though, it doesn't excuse the fact TDA was woefully under-prepared for the crowd that showed up. If I had been them, I would have planned for well over 200,000 people considering all the factors. They didn't plan this event correctly at all. They once again luck out that there wasn't a major incident/stampede where people are injured or even killed. They act like they have no idea how to plan for and control crowds when Disney wrote the book on it.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
At least Bob can be consoled by his millions... and Willow.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ngers-age-of-ultron-china-20150526-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ngers-age-of-ultron-china-20150526-story.html
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I think it will be successful simply because it's something new...,
Hope all had safe and happy extended weekends. Don't really think anything overly newsworthy happened over the weekend beyond Tomorrowland's disappointing debut. I could tell this was coming for the last month or two as the cost of the film (originally pegged as high as $225 million) kept dropping in the trades and THR had it down to $180 million going into the weekend and talking about how it should rule the weekend with a take in the $40-45 million range. Disney originally expected it to open to far better. I haven't seen it yet and will be this evening, so I'll leave that discussion here.
Before moving on to talk of how Bob Iger has no ego and went to China to hide (and not deliver briefcases full of money!), I do want to address something that I have before: namely, that these forums and we posters/community members and what we write isn't important at all. That we're largely simpletons who enjoy theme parks and like to sit back, with no understanding or perspective of media, entertainment, business, hospitality or just about anything outside of Mom's basement in Toledo, while criticizing good people be they executives, Imagineers, reporters, PR specialists or social media bloggers, who are all smarter than we are and better and, naturally, we want to be them.
I'd advise anyone who feels this way to leave the site immediately because ... well, you clearly have to be a loser and you are wasting time here that would better be spent trying to improve yourself so that one day you'll be able to shine the shoes (or do the dry cleaning) for the amazing and superior people above. You won't get this time back at the end when sitting on that cloud at the Pearly Gates.
The rest of us actually engage each other for intellectual stimulation or, at the very least, to chat with friends and inform and entertain ourselves and others (BTW, looking at the traffic here, there are many that fall into that 'others' category).
At least speaking to the Spirited threads, information is delivered, news is broken, and sometimes even knowledge is gained here. As Internet forums go, this is the deep end. And that tugging that you feel? That's the drain, especially if you're suggesting that this is mostly substanceless fluff or the ramblings of wannabe never-beens, pulling you down. And it just might be a sign that you shouldn't be on the thread or engaging posters here.
I have even read people here advance the ludicrous notion that we can't possibly know as much as the business analysts who follow Disney. As much?!?!?! Folks, there's no comparing our knowledge with the limited information (and all of it from a financial view, obviously) that they work off of. These analysts seek to ingratiate themselves into the families who run these companies. They are often embraced by these companies, even if it is more in a Godfather-like way than the other kind. They don't feed the masses. They are fed by the companies they cover and they regurgitate small amounts of what the companies want them to.
If social media gets the tuna, then the analysts get served up the finest caviar.
It's incredibly insulting to the forum, to the community as a whole and even to MAGICal Steve (aka @wdwmagic) to suggest we're all a bunch of losers tossing theories against the walls like a two-year-old left on the potty by themselves to see what will stick.
Again, if you don't respect the forum, your fellow members or the purpose of discussion, then you really should leave ... I hear Twitter is all the rage these days.
Oh, and as to all those people being superior to all of us here, they're not. Some of them are the same (we have media people, analysts, Imagineers, consultants ... right here among many others who also often have valid points or opinions or just interesting views).
Now, moving on to the Far East ...
Before moving on to talk of how Bob Iger has no ego and went to China to hide (and not deliver briefcases full of money!), I do want to address something that I have before: namely, that these forums and we posters/community members and what we write isn't important at all. That we're largely simpletons who enjoy theme parks and like to sit back, with no understanding or perspective of media, entertainment, business, hospitality or just about anything outside of Mom's basement in Toledo, while criticizing good people be they executives, Imagineers, reporters, PR specialists or social media bloggers, who are all smarter than we are and better and, naturally, we want to be them.
I'd advise anyone who feels this way to leave the site immediately because ... well, you clearly have to be a loser and you are wasting time here that would better be spent trying to improve yourself so that one day you'll be able to shine the shoes (or do the dry cleaning) for the amazing and superior people above. You won't get this time back at the end when sitting on that cloud at the Pearly Gates.
The rest of us actually engage each other for intellectual stimulation or, at the very least, to chat with friends and inform and entertain ourselves and others (BTW, looking at the traffic here, there are many that fall into that 'others' category).
At least speaking to the Spirited threads, information is delivered, news is broken, and sometimes even knowledge is gained here. As Internet forums go, this is the deep end. And that tugging that you feel? That's the drain, especially if you're suggesting that this is mostly substanceless fluff or the ramblings of wannabe never-beens, pulling you down. And it just might be a sign that you shouldn't be on the thread or engaging posters here.
I have even read people here advance the ludicrous notion that we can't possibly know as much as the business analysts who follow Disney. As much?!?!?! Folks, there's no comparing our knowledge with the limited information (and all of it from a financial view, obviously) that they work off of. These analysts seek to ingratiate themselves into the families who run these companies. They are often embraced by these companies, even if it is more in a Godfather-like way than the other kind. They don't feed the masses. They are fed by the companies they cover and they regurgitate small amounts of what the companies want them to.
If social media gets the tuna, then the analysts get served up the finest caviar.
It's incredibly insulting to the forum, to the community as a whole and even to MAGICal Steve (aka @wdwmagic) to suggest we're all a bunch of losers tossing theories against the walls like a two-year-old left on the potty by themselves to see what will stick.
Again, if you don't respect the forum, your fellow members or the purpose of discussion, then you really should leave ... I hear Twitter is all the rage these days.
Oh, and as to all those people being superior to all of us here, they're not. Some of them are the same (we have media people, analysts, Imagineers, consultants ... right here among many others who also often have valid points or opinions or just interesting views).
Now, moving on to the Far East ...
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
There are a lot of folks betting on Avatar right now. Fox and Disney about $600 million each. Cirque? Who knows. But I'd guess about $100 million. And I am just getting a bad feeling for where the GP is at with the IP. I think the land will be really well done. And yet it really won't move the needle. But I think Disney will be happy if it siphons off some of the evening load from the MK.
The big question is the sequels. They really do have the potential to be the biggest flop(s) ever. Something about the whole thing just doesn't feel right.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
You said it yourself when talking about how Harry Potter was promoted, the land itself was the selling point. If (once again, big if) what Disney creates is anything like this,
coupled with rides that get people talking, promoting the land could be no problem. One problem could be what could they do with food and merchandise? More of the same won't cut it. Another problem could be a repeat of New Fantasyland's style over substance.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I'd never heard of the guy until all the Avatarland threads started here. Then it was explained that he also did Titanic in 1997, and I said "Oh."
Go down to your local Target or Toys R Us big box store. Try and find anything Avatar related. Avatar merchandise doesn't exist because there's no demand for that product. Star Wars exists in big box stores, so does Potter and Cars and Princesses and Marvel and Frozen. But not Avatar.
And there's also my semi-famous annual Halloween tally. In my Villa Park, California neighborhood full of trick or treaters (I go through at least three big bowls of candy every year), I have never seen anyone dressed up as anyone from Pandora. Ever.
That's the part that worries me about WDW putting all this money and focus on Avatarland. There's no market for that product at the nations big box stores, and free consumers choosing to be their favorite character on Halloween never choose someone from Pandora. Quite simply, Avatar is not a thing.
And yet WDW is planning for Avatarland to be this huge driver of attendance and attention. Did no one on the planning team go down to Target to see what the demand was like? Does Bob Iger not answer his own door on Halloween? It's not rocket science; Avatar is not a thing.
Nemo14
Well-Known Member
and not tied in to Frozen...
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I'd never heard of the guy until all the Avatarland threads started here. Then it was explained that he also did Titanic in 1997, and I said "Oh."
Go down to your local Target or Toys R Us big box store. Try and find anything Avatar related. They don't exist because there's no demand for that market. Star Wars exists in big box stores, so does Potter and Cars and Princesses and Marvel and Frozen. But not Avatar.
And there's also my semi-famous annual Halloween tally. In my Villa Park, California neighborhood full of trick or treaters (I go through at least three big bowls of candy every year), I have never seen anyone dressed up as anyone from Pandora. Ever.
That's the part that worries me about WDW putting all this money and focus on Avatarland. There's no market for that product at the nations big box stores, and free consumers choosing to be their favorite character on Halloween never choose someone from Pandora. Quite simply, Avatar is not a thing.
And yet WDW is planning for Avatarland to be this huge driver of attendance and attention. Did no one on the planning team go down to Target to see what the demand was like? Does Bob Iger not answer his own door on Halloween? It's not rocket science; Avatar is not a thing.
I'm sure Willow and Bob are off at a party on Halloween. If he was home, I'm sure one of the staff would get the door....
OK, now that we're finished with that ... let's welcome everyone back from the official start of summer for most of the USA (it started for most Floridians back in March, but what's a few months with global warming?)
I have seen an amazing amount of misstatements, mischaracterizations, obfuscations and general confusion, so I hope this helps clear things up regarding Disney in China. There's been a fair amount of trolling too, but that's to be expected. I thought I'd use numerals and a Top 10, in homage to David Letterman, to help clarify points.
Here goes:
1.) There seems to be mass confusion that somehow an insignificant 'wittle Spirit such as myself is the cause of all this Shanghai talk. That it isn't very important. That it pales in comparison to say the next 31 films Marvel will release or that DCA and Pandora are far more important to P&R and TWDC as a whole than Shanghai Disneyland Resort is.
I am not the one who never misses a chance to tell Wall Street analysts and reporters how important Shanghai Disney is to growing the Disney BRAND in mainland China. I am not the one who never fails to tout how important this is to my legacy when talking to reporters and analysts. I am not the one who crows how it will positively affect P&R results in fiscal year 2016.
That would be Robert A. Iger. ... If you need evidence on this, then I am sure it will take @ParentsOf4 about 10 seconds to dig it up for you.
So, let's not make it out to be a Spirited issue. China is HUGE for the future of TWDC, regardless of who is or who isn't talking about it.
2.) Bob Iger and Tom Staggs went to China to not be seen, heard or quoted. You would have to be an idiot or a troll to believe this. They planned this trip to be Disney's coming out party in the Mainland and were sent home with a tail between their legs (and not a Pandoran blue one, either).
They went to Shanghai to be on hand and officiate at the topping off ceremony of Storybook Castle and the opening of the Disney Store. They weren't allowed to do either. They were sent packing; hence, Bob appearing disheveled at DL after jetting in from the PRC ... and appearing to be wearing the same pants and jacket as he did in that Disney Store photo that wasn't supposed to be released. (I'm not sure on this and would need style expert @TP2000 to check on it.)
Disney planned to spread photos and video and quotes throughout the WESTERN media. What did you get? A Disney Parks Blog post allegedly written by Thomas Smith that was actually written by the evil, vile, Godless, pinko Commies in China (to be clear, I love 'em and can't wait to work over there again!)
Once more, the press was supposed to be in the WEST. Stuff that the CCP could have easily censored in China if they had issues with it. No, they had issues with Bob and Tom and Disney and its plans, so they didn't allow any media. (It just boggles the mind that people like Ben Fritz and Brooks Barnes can simply ignore this, yet they do.)
Much like no one commented on having a ground-breaking ceremony in the ballroom of a Communist-owned hotel many miles away from the SDL site. Again, they broke 'ground' by shoveling sand in boxes that was brought into a ballroom ... and no one thought to ask 'why?'
With a forum with many who lean right, it amazes me that having Communists dictate the words of the head of the Walt Disney Company -- the largest American ... the largest entertainment and media company in the world -- gets a 'So, what? No biggee' Just the cost of doing business in China.' reaction from folks. Really? Is that what y'all think?
3.) Bob isn't shy and like any/every media mogul, he loves the spotlight (unless he's being interviewed by Chinese TV ... then, he appears as if someone is pointing a gun at his head). He didn't go over to steal the spotlight or be disrespectful to anyone. He went over to introduce his BRAND to the local masses in JOINT ceremonies with local officials. That was not allowed.
Again, look at the man's history if you think Bob doesn't want the spotlight. This isn't matter of opinion either. This, once more, is moving into the realm of debating facts.
Who used the word ''launch'' to describe the events last week in Shanghai with regard to the Disney BRAND? Who said, this was the 'beginning of the campaign' for SDL? It wasn't the Spirit. Those were the words Bob Iger used repeatedly in conference calls and interviews with reporters and analysts, during which he announced that he and Tom would be heading to Shanghai shortly. Do you think he told them that so they would expect absolutely nothing coming from Disney?
4.) As of yet, the media hasn't questioned Bob on where the $800 million capital influx went or what it was/is being spent on or whether he asked his wife to remove the 'Disney CEO Fumbles Entry to China' Op-Ed in the HuffPo. Again, these issues may not be important to you, but as a First Amendment proponent and Disney shareholder, those issues are concerns of mine.
I do know Bob asked Willow (with Zenia all up in this) to silence the writer. I know that Disney has made no public accounting of where the $800 million went. I'm sure $800 million doesn't mean much to you, but I didn't get to be a Faux Top One Percenter by letting huge sums of money go ... go ... into the Fairy Money Cloud?
For those who would like to state that we have no official release from Disney as to what is going into SDL (in fact, the world only has the planning menu that I put out on this site and, as @wdwmagic will attest to, was borrowed by every blogger, site owner and Disney Twit out there) what we do have is a timeline (and construction photos and video). The infusion was added at a particular point in time and earmarked for additional attractions and expanded capacity. Yet, sticking to the facts only, we have satellite imagery verifying nothing being built that wasn't on the 2013 planning menu. Nothing post Iger's announcement.
And, you don't think that's odd?
Let's turn things around and imagine that $800 million had been earmarked for the MK. Now, 14 months later with no announcements and no construction, you wouldn't find it odd in the least? You wouldn't be questioning where that money was going? C'mon, be honest ...
Don't worry, they get shorter now ...
5.) Way too many posts here focus on small items, like a Bob Iger picture in Shanghai without discussing the context and why it is important. Been down this road for over a year since I told you how bizarre things had gotten and are in Disney's relationship with 'Shendi'.
It isn't the photo that matters. It's the fact that Shendi is dictating that Bob and Company can't publicize their (and by their, I mean, Disney's) resort to westerners.
You can take a thousand and one pics of Bob touring the site and if the Great Firewall doesn't want them seen in China, which would still be odd considering this is a joint venture that is huge in nature, they wouldn't be. This is the CCP not allowing Disney to run its own PR operations in the USA.
Again, you think that isn't a wee bit odd? Tell me, how many times are we going to have people (people who have never even visited China, let alone worked there and lived there and some of us even did both in a media capacity) say that Bob and Tom's ghostly profile was out of deference to their partners at Shendi? For the uninformed or under informed, the Chinese love ceremony. They even like sharing the spotlight with their international partners. It's validating, reassuring, and, ultimately, declares their importance on the world stage. And, yeah, America still has a certain prestige over there. This is such a profound departure from what normally occurs in these partnerships ... I'm not sure how to put this ... it puts cracks in the very foundation of how these relationships have traditionally worked.
In deference to San Andreas opening this week (I like the Rock, but love California, so I don't want to see it destroyed even in the movies) it isn't just big, but seismically so.
6.) No, this isn't just about a theme park or a retail outlet. This is about Disney entering the Chinese Mainland. And how well Disney does or doesn't do will ripple through every facet of TWDC for years to come. Yes, it means that much. This is all about the BRAND ... about the BRAND ... not a park.
There is no Disney Channel. There is no affinity for the BRAND. Most people don't know the majority of Disney IP. Some don't know any ... even those cartoon mice. That's why getting that IP out there is so vital and its absence is so worrisome.
7.) Perhaps this should be higher, but while Disney is a minority owner (43 to 57%) in SDL, they have majority control of the management (70 to 30%) according to the contract details that they released to the media. That would mean, or should mean, that Disney should be making most of the decisions and it would certainly make one believe they are not impotent and making very few decisions.
Yet, by allowing all of these open questions, which are serious and deep whether or not anyone in journalism ever has what it takes to truly look into them, they make it seem as if they have almost no power at all.
What's that about having to negotiate day-of to have Mickey and Minnie at the Disney Store launch? .... That will have to wait a bit ...
8.) The situation in Shanghai is incredibly different from EVERY international resort Disney has opened. Indeed, they have more control in Tokyo where they don't own ANY of the resort, than they do in Shanghai due to contractual covenants. In Shanghai, the CCP is just taking control and doing what it wants regardless of the contract ... and, you can see why Disney would not want that narrative shared in western media.
In Paris, Disney has had effective control of management for years dating to the original creation of Euro Disney SCA. After the recent restructuring, Disney has in effect total majority ownership and, beyond having to adhere to French laws about issues such as labor, can do what it wants in running it. That's why money has been pouring into the resort and will continue to do so. Unlike in Shanghai, you can see where that money is going.
In Hong Kong, Disney largely had its way in both the original negotiations, which were almost entirely held when HK was still a British colony, and in the early days of running the resort. It's only been in the last 5-6 years that the government has become quite pushy (Yes, they made Disney pay the entire $900-million plus expansion costs themselves) due to Disney cutting vast swaths of the park menu out after signing the contracts. In other words, Disney didn't deliver what it said it would and the SAR and, now the CCP as well, finally took note. But no one stops Bob Iger or Tom Staggs from having photo opps at HKDL.
9.) No, the government isn't going to take the resort over and steal it from Disney. That isn't what this is about. But it is about control. And if you see Disney announcing still more money is headed to Shanghai, then the logical conclusion is the entry fee to the Mainland just went up. Bottom line, it's about the cost of bringing Disney IP over to the mainland. And that cost just seems to keep getting higher and higher and higher ...
Let's not even begin to open the discussion of even if SDL is a huge success, how little of the returns will reverberate in Burbank, which makes it rather odd that Bob and Tom are talking as if 2016 is going to show any Shanghai returns (beyond the buildout costs falling away, which @ParentsOf4 can explain as I think he got an A in Economics 101 when I only got a B -- really, that was my grade, but I hated 8:15 a.m. classes!)
10.) While I have every intention of continuing the discussion, I'm done arguing facts. If you want to argue that Bob didn't want to be seen or that SDL really isn't important to Disney in the big picture or the like, then have at it (so long as it isn't against forum rules) but don't expect me to engage you. I'm done arguing facts. If you aren't interested in the discussion, and you're taking part, then you are trolling and I won't play anymore.
I have seen an amazing amount of misstatements, mischaracterizations, obfuscations and general confusion, so I hope this helps clear things up regarding Disney in China. There's been a fair amount of trolling too, but that's to be expected. I thought I'd use numerals and a Top 10, in homage to David Letterman, to help clarify points.
Here goes:
1.) There seems to be mass confusion that somehow an insignificant 'wittle Spirit such as myself is the cause of all this Shanghai talk. That it isn't very important. That it pales in comparison to say the next 31 films Marvel will release or that DCA and Pandora are far more important to P&R and TWDC as a whole than Shanghai Disneyland Resort is.
I am not the one who never misses a chance to tell Wall Street analysts and reporters how important Shanghai Disney is to growing the Disney BRAND in mainland China. I am not the one who never fails to tout how important this is to my legacy when talking to reporters and analysts. I am not the one who crows how it will positively affect P&R results in fiscal year 2016.
That would be Robert A. Iger. ... If you need evidence on this, then I am sure it will take @ParentsOf4 about 10 seconds to dig it up for you.
So, let's not make it out to be a Spirited issue. China is HUGE for the future of TWDC, regardless of who is or who isn't talking about it.
2.) Bob Iger and Tom Staggs went to China to not be seen, heard or quoted. You would have to be an idiot or a troll to believe this. They planned this trip to be Disney's coming out party in the Mainland and were sent home with a tail between their legs (and not a Pandoran blue one, either).
They went to Shanghai to be on hand and officiate at the topping off ceremony of Storybook Castle and the opening of the Disney Store. They weren't allowed to do either. They were sent packing; hence, Bob appearing disheveled at DL after jetting in from the PRC ... and appearing to be wearing the same pants and jacket as he did in that Disney Store photo that wasn't supposed to be released. (I'm not sure on this and would need style expert @TP2000 to check on it.)
Disney planned to spread photos and video and quotes throughout the WESTERN media. What did you get? A Disney Parks Blog post allegedly written by Thomas Smith that was actually written by the evil, vile, Godless, pinko Commies in China (to be clear, I love 'em and can't wait to work over there again!)
Once more, the press was supposed to be in the WEST. Stuff that the CCP could have easily censored in China if they had issues with it. No, they had issues with Bob and Tom and Disney and its plans, so they didn't allow any media. (It just boggles the mind that people like Ben Fritz and Brooks Barnes can simply ignore this, yet they do.)
Much like no one commented on having a ground-breaking ceremony in the ballroom of a Communist-owned hotel many miles away from the SDL site. Again, they broke 'ground' by shoveling sand in boxes that was brought into a ballroom ... and no one thought to ask 'why?'
With a forum with many who lean right, it amazes me that having Communists dictate the words of the head of the Walt Disney Company -- the largest American ... the largest entertainment and media company in the world -- gets a 'So, what? No biggee' Just the cost of doing business in China.' reaction from folks. Really? Is that what y'all think?
3.) Bob isn't shy and like any/every media mogul, he loves the spotlight (unless he's being interviewed by Chinese TV ... then, he appears as if someone is pointing a gun at his head). He didn't go over to steal the spotlight or be disrespectful to anyone. He went over to introduce his BRAND to the local masses in JOINT ceremonies with local officials. That was not allowed.
Again, look at the man's history if you think Bob doesn't want the spotlight. This isn't matter of opinion either. This, once more, is moving into the realm of debating facts.
Who used the word ''launch'' to describe the events last week in Shanghai with regard to the Disney BRAND? Who said, this was the 'beginning of the campaign' for SDL? It wasn't the Spirit. Those were the words Bob Iger used repeatedly in conference calls and interviews with reporters and analysts, during which he announced that he and Tom would be heading to Shanghai shortly. Do you think he told them that so they would expect absolutely nothing coming from Disney?
4.) As of yet, the media hasn't questioned Bob on where the $800 million capital influx went or what it was/is being spent on or whether he asked his wife to remove the 'Disney CEO Fumbles Entry to China' Op-Ed in the HuffPo. Again, these issues may not be important to you, but as a First Amendment proponent and Disney shareholder, those issues are concerns of mine.
I do know Bob asked Willow (with Zenia all up in this) to silence the writer. I know that Disney has made no public accounting of where the $800 million went. I'm sure $800 million doesn't mean much to you, but I didn't get to be a Faux Top One Percenter by letting huge sums of money go ... go ... into the Fairy Money Cloud?
For those who would like to state that we have no official release from Disney as to what is going into SDL (in fact, the world only has the planning menu that I put out on this site and, as @wdwmagic will attest to, was borrowed by every blogger, site owner and Disney Twit out there) what we do have is a timeline (and construction photos and video). The infusion was added at a particular point in time and earmarked for additional attractions and expanded capacity. Yet, sticking to the facts only, we have satellite imagery verifying nothing being built that wasn't on the 2013 planning menu. Nothing post Iger's announcement.
And, you don't think that's odd?
Let's turn things around and imagine that $800 million had been earmarked for the MK. Now, 14 months later with no announcements and no construction, you wouldn't find it odd in the least? You wouldn't be questioning where that money was going? C'mon, be honest ...
Don't worry, they get shorter now ...
5.) Way too many posts here focus on small items, like a Bob Iger picture in Shanghai without discussing the context and why it is important. Been down this road for over a year since I told you how bizarre things had gotten and are in Disney's relationship with 'Shendi'.
It isn't the photo that matters. It's the fact that Shendi is dictating that Bob and Company can't publicize their (and by their, I mean, Disney's) resort to westerners.
You can take a thousand and one pics of Bob touring the site and if the Great Firewall doesn't want them seen in China, which would still be odd considering this is a joint venture that is huge in nature, they wouldn't be. This is the CCP not allowing Disney to run its own PR operations in the USA.
Again, you think that isn't a wee bit odd? Tell me, how many times are we going to have people (people who have never even visited China, let alone worked there and lived there and some of us even did both in a media capacity) say that Bob and Tom's ghostly profile was out of deference to their partners at Shendi? For the uninformed or under informed, the Chinese love ceremony. They even like sharing the spotlight with their international partners. It's validating, reassuring, and, ultimately, declares their importance on the world stage. And, yeah, America still has a certain prestige over there. This is such a profound departure from what normally occurs in these partnerships ... I'm not sure how to put this ... it puts cracks in the very foundation of how these relationships have traditionally worked.
In deference to San Andreas opening this week (I like the Rock, but love California, so I don't want to see it destroyed even in the movies) it isn't just big, but seismically so.
6.) No, this isn't just about a theme park or a retail outlet. This is about Disney entering the Chinese Mainland. And how well Disney does or doesn't do will ripple through every facet of TWDC for years to come. Yes, it means that much. This is all about the BRAND ... about the BRAND ... not a park.
There is no Disney Channel. There is no affinity for the BRAND. Most people don't know the majority of Disney IP. Some don't know any ... even those cartoon mice. That's why getting that IP out there is so vital and its absence is so worrisome.
7.) Perhaps this should be higher, but while Disney is a minority owner (43 to 57%) in SDL, they have majority control of the management (70 to 30%) according to the contract details that they released to the media. That would mean, or should mean, that Disney should be making most of the decisions and it would certainly make one believe they are not impotent and making very few decisions.
Yet, by allowing all of these open questions, which are serious and deep whether or not anyone in journalism ever has what it takes to truly look into them, they make it seem as if they have almost no power at all.
What's that about having to negotiate day-of to have Mickey and Minnie at the Disney Store launch? .... That will have to wait a bit ...
8.) The situation in Shanghai is incredibly different from EVERY international resort Disney has opened. Indeed, they have more control in Tokyo where they don't own ANY of the resort, than they do in Shanghai due to contractual covenants. In Shanghai, the CCP is just taking control and doing what it wants regardless of the contract ... and, you can see why Disney would not want that narrative shared in western media.
In Paris, Disney has had effective control of management for years dating to the original creation of Euro Disney SCA. After the recent restructuring, Disney has in effect total majority ownership and, beyond having to adhere to French laws about issues such as labor, can do what it wants in running it. That's why money has been pouring into the resort and will continue to do so. Unlike in Shanghai, you can see where that money is going.
In Hong Kong, Disney largely had its way in both the original negotiations, which were almost entirely held when HK was still a British colony, and in the early days of running the resort. It's only been in the last 5-6 years that the government has become quite pushy (Yes, they made Disney pay the entire $900-million plus expansion costs themselves) due to Disney cutting vast swaths of the park menu out after signing the contracts. In other words, Disney didn't deliver what it said it would and the SAR and, now the CCP as well, finally took note. But no one stops Bob Iger or Tom Staggs from having photo opps at HKDL.
9.) No, the government isn't going to take the resort over and steal it from Disney. That isn't what this is about. But it is about control. And if you see Disney announcing still more money is headed to Shanghai, then the logical conclusion is the entry fee to the Mainland just went up. Bottom line, it's about the cost of bringing Disney IP over to the mainland. And that cost just seems to keep getting higher and higher and higher ...
Let's not even begin to open the discussion of even if SDL is a huge success, how little of the returns will reverberate in Burbank, which makes it rather odd that Bob and Tom are talking as if 2016 is going to show any Shanghai returns (beyond the buildout costs falling away, which @ParentsOf4 can explain as I think he got an A in Economics 101 when I only got a B -- really, that was my grade, but I hated 8:15 a.m. classes!)
10.) While I have every intention of continuing the discussion, I'm done arguing facts. If you want to argue that Bob didn't want to be seen or that SDL really isn't important to Disney in the big picture or the like, then have at it (so long as it isn't against forum rules) but don't expect me to engage you. I'm done arguing facts. If you aren't interested in the discussion, and you're taking part, then you are trolling and I won't play anymore.
Nemo14
Well-Known Member
bet she's wearing the Yoda dress too.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Sure. But if he really wanted some expert market research before he had his company pay big bucks to James Cameron in his September, 2011 Avatarland agreement, he should have waited six weeks and watched who the kids were dressing up as on Halloween. He could have saved himself a lot of money and focused on the Star Wars thing instead.
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Darth Sidious
Authentically Disney Distinctly Chinese
I intended to write this earlier but at my firm the analysts don't even cover just one company. Typically they are assigned a sector, ala Media, and they just listen to what the CEOs and CFOs say on the investor calls. Analysts from large banks do not criticize (usually because I think there is a handful of occasionally pesky ones, perhaps one notable one from Deutsche) the companies they follow. You would get in some trouble if you tried grilling a CEO with anything but softballs.
Again, this is generally... There have and will be times where this isn't true and it's usually when it's too late (ala Lehman Brothers).
TalkingHead
Well-Known Member
I don't know. It just looks like a variation of the DAK aesthetic with more vines and trees. It's not terribly distinctive. Hogwarts was a recognizable and mysterious place people wanted to visit. Diagon Alley is a bustling place that is the secretive wizarding market.
That picture? It looks like the viney and leafy archway. I'd be concerned with it resonating in commercials and print ads.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Bob was indeed wearing the same trousers and sport coat at Disneyland on May 21st that he was seen wearing in Shanghai on May 20th. His sport coat needed a good steam. He changed his shirt at least.
But his trousers are the dead giveaway; at Disneyland on Thursday night they appeared tired and in desperate need of a pressing. He also needs to see his tailor to have a half inch taken out of the inseam, as the break is too bunchy. It could be the fabric was just tired after being worn for two days and needed to be cleaned and pressed to get them back in shape. Summer weight wool needs pressing after just one wear.
To Bob's credit, his Botox man does good work, and his smile and complexion looked good last Thursday in Anaheim. Facial rejuvenation products for older men have made huge strides in the last decade. Trust me.
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doctornick
Well-Known Member
In terms of food, there is some conflicting info as to how that will work. WDW1974 stated that he heard no food or may be just a quick serve is going into Pandora. Others have stated that it would have a "flex" dining as quick serve during the day and table service at night, but that was reported a log time ago and may have changed.
More recently, it was noted that Pizzafari is expanding to include table service in addition to quick service. This is right across the bridge from Pandora. I'm guessing that this will be the "table service" for Pandora and they'll probably have a small quick serve somewhere in the land proper.
As for merch, I think there is some potential there (especially with "bioluminescent" light up stuff) but maybe Disney is banking on Pandora (and RoL) simply increasing park attendance and then making up food/merch money elsewhere in DAK?
Oh, I see you using the Razor that Ozzie says Sharon uses on her legs here ... it's just terrible when facts get in the way of people's very off opinions. Thanks for adding your perspective ...
On behalf of the entire cast of WDWMAGIC.com, welcome to The WDW Talk Kingdom of the World.
And I'd like an answer to No. 2 myself (leave the pooh jokes out, please ... yes, Dave, I'm looking at you!)
Well, all of those organizations have business relationships (or their parent companies do) with the CCP. They see what's going down with Disney. One could gather they don't wish to wind up with a similar fate.
Also, there are stories that are easier to ignore. The measles (not smallpox!) outbreak would have been tougher. And since it wasn't Disney's fault, it really (EDIT: adding a word that was left out: didn't) harm them. I'd be shocked if 1,000 people canceled trips/visits during the height of the outbreak.
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