A Spirited Perfect Ten

[BrianLo]

How bad are the financial aspects?

They own 43% of the resort and are the majority shareholder of the company responsible for ops/management.

It's not exactly a secret they are in the passenger seat at this resort from an ownership perspective (though not to the extreme as Tokyo), why this is suddenly a shocking revelation in this thread, I don't know.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Or, one could say, how good are the financial aspects? We don't know, yet. But time will tell that tale. The problem I see with this analysis, is that worst case scenarios are being projected based upon casual observations without any evidence. I think we need to wait until the financial reports are generated.

Also, there is another assumption that has gotten some credence in this thread. That Iger made a bad deal in his entry to China. My question would be, would you prefer that TWDC had stayed away from China entirely? Isn't a "bad deal" better than no deal at all? I would think that TWDC has a general management plan that addresses international expansion. Right now and for the foreseeable future China is THE place for a company such as Disney to be. I don't fully understand why it has taken them so long to get there.

I'm not saying that going into China is a bad idea, much the opposite. They have an emerging middle class that needs to be captured. I've said that for quite awhile now.

Now is the right time..... but what are the terms? If China is calling the shots, how is that advantageous for TWDC?

Sure, Iger's public capitulation could be in exchange for some Chinese concession, but when have you ever heard of that happening.

 

[AEfx]

Its the Largest Media empire on the planet making its first Foree into China. Other CEOs would be front and center with their Chinese partners.

Iger's lack of appearance is very curious, considering he was there.

But would they, really?

I don't think they necessarily would, if they were smart (or had smart advisers).

Haven't you ever heard of the "diplomatic" technique of letting someone think they are getting what they want, that you have capitulated to them, earning you trust or at least something you can bank on later to get what you want - when in fact, what you "capitulated" to is something you didn't care about and would have given them anyway?

It's a pretty universal (no pun intended) practice - one that some folks master quite young, particularly in big families.

If this was indeed a demand made of him, I can see that conversation - "Mr. Iger is terribly sorry that you do not feel it is best for him to appear, as he was looking forward to the honor of demonstrating his respect to you and your people publicly." And then after, "Hey Bob - lucky you! Dodged that bullet. Should I have the hookers and blow delivered earlier than scheduled?"

I guess that's where my confusion is. Because it all seems so smart to me.

I'm going to risk being overly general saying this, but the American public really isn't going to have a more positive view of Disney/Iger/etc. by seeing the Largest Media Empire putting money into a foreign economy, and the Chinese public isn't really going to have a more positive view by seeing the leader of the Empire being paraded about like Darth Vader surveying the Empire's new acquisitions. And Wall Street just cares about the numbers. So who cares besides folks on Disney sites?

The more folks talk about this, the more it makes sense, really - basically, the criticism is that he was not a stereotype of the typical loud, in your face, presumptuous, American - not storming in there with a cowboy hat and a bullwhip serving hot dogs and apple pie playing Britney Spears records and being the center of attention, "look at me look at me!"

Is it really impossible that there is more nuance or strategy to this than "Iger is whipped by the Chinese"?

 

[PhotoDave219]

They own 43% of the resort and are the majority shareholder of the company responsible for ops/management.

It's not exactly a secret they are in the passenger seat at this resort from an ownership perspective (though not to the extreme as Tokyo), why this is suddenly a shocking revelation in this thread, I don't know.

Please don't play the pronoun game. Who is "They?"

 

[BrianLo]

Please don't play the pronoun game. Who is "They?"

Sorry, TWDC owns a 43% share, the other 57% is the Shanghai Shendi Group.

So yes, 'China' is calling the shots.

 

[AEfx]

Now is the right time..... but what are the terms? If China is calling the shots, how is that advantageous for TWDC?

I posted about that a few pages back, and actually WDW1974 agreed - because China is in the process of adding 1.4 Billion people to the "global marketplace", and IP rights are in flux there.

As a country, China is about to pick a road - one of those roads which provides ample protection and government/legislative assistance to corporations like Disney in making sure they can exploit their IP as profitably as possible. The other road results in conditioning these 1.4B new consumers and law enforcement, etc. that piracy and other things that damage IP are really formalities and not taken as serious threats or problems.

China is still China, basically - but those 1.4B folks have a potential to be very profitable for corporations like Disney in the long haul, so a little bowing and a little capitulation now can buy them a seat at the table that decides the future of how much or how little China falls in step with the rest of the major consumer markets when it comes to allowing corporations to exploit their IP to the fullest profit extent possible.

Basically, it's the opposite of what we usually criticize the Disney corporation for - usually we complain (rightly so) because they don't seem to think about anything but the next quarter earnings, but this very well could actually be some good mid-term strategy.

 

[Phil12]

I posted about that a few pages back, and actually WDW1974 agreed - because China is in the process of adding 1.4 Billion people to the "global marketplace", and IP rights are in flux there.

As a country, China is about to pick a road - one of those roads which provides ample protection and government/legislative assistance to corporations like Disney in making sure they can exploit their IP as profitably as possible. The other road results in conditioning these 1.4B new consumers and law enforcement, etc. that piracy and other things that damage IP are really formalities and not taken as serious threats or problems.

China is still China, basically - but those 1.4B folks have a potential to be very profitable for corporations like Disney in the long haul, so a little bowing and a little capitulation now can buy them a seat at the table that decides the future of how much or how little China falls in step with the rest of the major consumer markets when it comes to allowing corporations to exploit their IP to the fullest profit extent possible.

To wit:

 

[PhotoDave219]

Sorry, TWDC owns a 43% share, the other 57% is the Shanghai Shendi Group.

So yes, 'China' is calling the shots.

Thanks.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I posted about that a few pages back, and actually WDW1974 agreed - because China is in the process of adding 1.4 Billion people to the "global marketplace", and IP rights are in flux there.

As a country, China is about to pick a road - one of those roads which provides ample protection and government/legislative assistance to corporations like Disney in making sure they can exploit their IP as profitably as possible. The other road results in conditioning these 1.4B new consumers and law enforcement, etc. that piracy and other things that damage IP are really formalities and not taken as serious threats or problems.

China is still China, basically - but those 1.4B folks have a potential to be very profitable for corporations like Disney in the long haul, so a little bowing and a little capitulation now can buy them a seat at the table that decides the future of how much or how little China falls in step with the rest of the major consumer markets when it comes to allowing corporations to exploit their IP to the fullest profit extent possible.

Basically, it's the opposite of what we usually criticize the Disney corporation for - usually we complain (rightly so) because they don't seem to think about anything but the next quarter earnings, but this very well could actually be some good mid-term strategy.

It just makes me wonder. I have no problem if thats the case.

Disney needs a very healthy, working relationship to gain inroads to China. What I would have expected? Every "ceremony" I would have expected one posted photo with Iger and the head of SSG. Nothing big, nothing "flashy" but something that says "Bob was here" but always a photo of the two men together, signifing a strong partnership. Instead? Iger was pushed to the shadows and that just makes me so curious as to what the rest of the deal is.

As Phil pointed out, this is crucial. Bob can't mess this up. The future of this company is riding on how well this works, and I think it will eventually be a success. The past thing anyone wants is a repeat of Paris.

You have that Snyder article get killed, you have Bob nowhere to be seen, you don't even allow Disney Channel to be in the country and you really start scratching your head with what the deal is and how much capitulation has gone on.

Bob can't mess this up. And there are signs that just make you scratch your head with "Exactly what is going on?"

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I recently came across, for the second time if memory serves me correctly, a panel USC's East Asian Center held on theme parks in China in 2012. Panelists included lauded Chinese film producer Zhang Jizhong, Bob Weis of SDR fame and SPIRITED thread reader, UCLA B-School Professor Shi Zhang and attorney Thomas E McLain.

In light of our discussions around SDR, Thomas McLain's comments are of particular interest; which begin at 55:37. McLain served as a member of the Oriental Land Company's (Then controlled by Mitsui Real Estate and Keisei Electric Railway) legal counsel during the later portion of the negotiations for Tokyo Disneyland. He also led Universal's side of the negotiations to build their park in Osaka as well as many projects in East Asia since then. McLain was actually hired by OLC to respectfully exit negotiations with Disney over TDL because they felt they could not agree to terms. However, as Thomas recounts, both parties had agreed on most of the terms, they just didn't know how to communicate with each other. He laundry lists many of the pratfalls of building theme parks in China, but this, as well as the Chinese's reluctance to accept help, seem like the biggest problem for Disney or UNI. Building a resort in China should be seen as a beachhead for BRAND recognition and attachment, which is a whole 'nother can of worms, but as the foundation for a long term relationship between Disney and its Chinese partners. What we have seen this last week suggests things have gone really poorly, there's also a very good chance Disney has broken federal laws, yet the company has bet all its chips on this resort being what endears the public to Disney. Perhaps, given the difficulties, this was too much for SDL to bear by itself so soon; to establish a Disney quality resort and to be the means to formally introduce the Chinese populace to the BRAND. (I think Disney should have waited until the mid 2020s to build this resort and focused on building HKDL, both in terms of offerings and interest/attachment in the mainland, getting the Disney Channel into the mainland and having big theatrical runs of the classics like "Snow White" or "Pinocchio".)

Bob's response to Thomas' comments, at 1:18:20, are particularly interesting and show there are individuals in leadership on the Disney side of SDR who know what needs to be done, but may not have the support to see it through. It's also kind of startling to hear someone from Disney say OLC is more Disney than Disney.

 

[AEfx]

It just makes me wonder. I have no problem if thats the case.

Bob can't mess this up. And there are signs that just make you scratch your head with "Exactly what is going on?"

Agree, but at this point - giving the benefit of the doubt just because I can just as well see it as a strategic plan than an unexpected snub.

To be really honest, thinking about all this and how much, well, we might over-think such things, I really think that if Iger had been front and center, we would be having the same discussion with the opposite posts - we'd see photo memes from those clever beavers who like to make them with Darth Vader masks imposed over Iger, with variations of "Your White American Overlord Has Appeared!" And we'd be talking about how Iger just mucked this all up by going in there and acting like he was at an American park event when clearly the Chinese culture needs to be treated differently, particularly with how crucial this visit is.

While yes, as CEO, we can blame him for not taking a special (or much at all) interest in the stateside parks, in truth I think it's a lot more simply that internally, the company is seeing record profits and doesn't see the need for additional capital expenditures. As much as I hate to say it, and as misguided as I feel it is, it's probably really that simple.

But how the parks have been developed aside, Iger isn't an idiot. He somehow managed to complete the acquisitions of Pixar, Marvel, and Lucasfilm. Disney fans have varying opinions on those, but they were financial masterstrokes which have led to creative gains as well since Disney is also so seemingly hands-off when it comes to content (not trying to "Disneyify"). The guy is a winner when it comes to Wall Street - which is on one hand why we criticize him so, but on the other hand - that's his job, if he wasn't doing that, we would be complaining how he was losing money, he wouldn't be there long and they would find someone who could.

I'd be more than willing to believe he had some bloody knives stashed under a loose board in the closet, but as close as it seems we can get is catching him buying some ketchup. I think that's why some folks have previously made correlations to some political families when it comes to how folks go after him - when all indicators show that a good job is being done, by making smart investments that bring financial gain, or balancing a budget and making a surplus, folks start looking at turning every tiny thing into a "X-gate" because there is nothing to complain about when it comes to actual job performance.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Agree, but at this point - giving the benefit of the doubt just because I can just as well see it as a strategic plan than an unexpected snub.

To be really honest, thinking about all this and how much, well, we might over-think such things, I really think that if Iger had been front and center, we would be having the same discussion with the opposite posts - we'd see photo memes from those clever beavers who like to make them with Darth Vader masks imposed over Iger, with variations of "Your White American Overlord Has Appeared!" And we'd be talking about how Iger just mucked this all up by going in there and acting like he was at an American park event when clearly the Chinese culture needs to be treated differently, particularly with how crucial this visit is.

While yes, as CEO, we can blame him for not taking a special (or much at all) interest in the stateside parks, in truth I think it's a lot more simply that internally, the company is seeing record profits and doesn't see the need for additional capital expenditures. As much as I hate to say it, and as misguided as I feel it is, it's probably really that simple.

But how the parks have been developed aside, Iger isn't an idiot. He somehow managed to complete the acquisitions of Pixar, Marvel, and Lucasfilm. Disney fans have varying opinions on those, but they were financial masterstrokes which have led to creative gains as well since Disney is also so seemingly hands-off when it comes to content (not trying to "Disneyify"). The guy is a winner when it comes to Wall Street - which is on one hand why we criticize him so, but on the other hand - that's his job, if he wasn't doing that, we would be complaining how he was losing money, he wouldn't be there long and they would find someone who could.

I'd be more than willing to believe he had some bloody knives stashed under a loose board in the closet, but as close as it seems we can get is catching him buying some ketchup. I think that's why some folks have previously made correlations to some political families when it comes to how folks go after him - when all indicators show that a good job is being done, by making smart investments that bring financial gain, or balancing a budget and making a surplus, folks start looking at turning every tiny thing into a "X-gate" because there is nothing to complain about when it comes to actual job performance.

I generally agree, I just think that the deal needs greater scrutiny.

 

[ford91exploder]

Agree, but at this point - giving the benefit of the doubt just because I can just as well see it as a strategic plan than an unexpected snub.

To be really honest, thinking about all this and how much, well, we might over-think such things, I really think that if Iger had been front and center, we would be having the same discussion with the opposite posts - we'd see photo memes from those clever beavers who like to make them with Darth Vader masks imposed over Iger, with variations of "Your White American Overlord Has Appeared!" And we'd be talking about how Iger just mucked this all up by going in there and acting like he was at an American park event when clearly the Chinese culture needs to be treated differently, particularly with how crucial this visit is.

While yes, as CEO, we can blame him for not taking a special (or much at all) interest in the stateside parks, in truth I think it's a lot more simply that internally, the company is seeing record profits and doesn't see the need for additional capital expenditures. As much as I hate to say it, and as misguided as I feel it is, it's probably really that simple.

But how the parks have been developed aside, Iger isn't an idiot. He somehow managed to complete the acquisitions of Pixar, Marvel, and Lucasfilm. Disney fans have varying opinions on those, but they were financial masterstrokes which have led to creative gains as well since Disney is also so seemingly hands-off when it comes to content (not trying to "Disneyify"). The guy is a winner when it comes to Wall Street - which is on one hand why we criticize him so, but on the other hand - that's his job, if he wasn't doing that, we would be complaining how he was losing money, he wouldn't be there long and they would find someone who could.

I'd be more than willing to believe he had some bloody knives stashed under a loose board in the closet, but as close as it seems we can get is catching him buying some ketchup. I think that's why some folks have previously made correlations to some political families when it comes to how folks go after him - when all indicators show that a good job is being done, by making smart investments that bring financial gain, or balancing a budget and making a surplus, folks start looking at turning every tiny thing into a "X-gate" because there is nothing to complain about when it comes to actual job performance.

That certain family turns 100 into 100K, And has a ever lengthening list of bodies who were associated with them, Iger like those guys is really good at not getting CAUGHT. That being said that president was the last one where we had a decent economy in the US.

 

[ford91exploder]

I generally agree, I just think that the deal needs greater scrutiny.

It will not get it till it blows up and the shareholders take it on the chin, I've taken my profits from DIS I've taken the recent gains so I'm now back to my original holdings in DIS. Bulls and Bears profit and pigs get slaughtered.

 

[ford91exploder]

Yeah, and?

That's the part that many of us don't seem to get. OK, the folks in China are in charge and making the rules. Is this a problem? Why should any of us care? There are people on this thread making it seem like some "big deal" that there's no photo of Iger from China, but from my prospective it doesn't seem like anything of importance. All it does is reaffirm that Disney is letting Chinese officials call the shots because that is the business arrangement to get the access to China they covet.

If you do business in China it IS a big deal, While your Chinese partner would have the honored position and have the longest speech cutting out a partner entirely is an INSULT. Ceremony is VERY important in China.

Example when you give out your business card it should be in Chinese and presented with both hands as it it considered valuable. My chinese cards are english on the back and chinese on front.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I generally agree, I just think that the deal needs greater scrutiny.

It's always been described as being nearly the same as Hong Kong. Why is almost 20 years later the time for scrutiny?

 

[Hakunamatata]

It's always been described as being nearly the same as the Hong Kong. Why is almost 20 years later the time for scrutiny?

Slow Disney news cycle?

 

[stlphil]

Everyone that says Iger is just avoiding the spotlight due to his nature, or simply strategically laying low, is so missing the obvious it is laughable. If the above reasons were truly the case, he and Tom and entourage could have taken the long, exhausting, trip to Asia a couple of weeks from now, or a couple of weeks ago if all they wanted to do is take the pulse of how things are going, not back-to-back-to-back with a big movie premier and the Disneyland 60th kickoff. No, they chose to make that long trip specifically to coincide with the store opening and topping off ceremonies. Being no-shows screams that things didn't go as planned.

Now in fairness, none of this means that Disney's entry into the mainland is ultimately doomed to be a financial disaster. But would Wall Street be quite as bullish about Disney if they realized the extent to which their golden boy wasn't calling the shots?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/24/europe/cannes-winners-losers/
The Cannes audience is notoriously vocal -- equally capable of delivering a 15-minute standing ovation or walking out after the first 15 minutes of a film. They applaud the festival logo which appears before each screening. And during the opening credits of "Inside Out" they booed Disney and cheered Pixar.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Where's Igerbot?
http://www.gettyimages.com.au/detai...tomorrowland-premiere-at-news-photo/474385360