A Spirited Perfect Ten

Phil12

Phil12

Well-Known Member
Nubs70 said:
However, C-suite occupants operate under "The appearance of impropriety." Appearances lead to questions being asked that can lead to additional appearances. The Onion Effect.
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Indeed but there is no appearance of impropriety to impartial observers. For the partisan observers who desire to harm Iger, no rumor of misconduct is beyond the pale. If you wish to deal in rumor that's fine. After all this section of WDWMAGIC deals specifically with news and rumors. What becomes a problem is when rumors are repeated to the point that some people then assume those rumors to be fact. Then those rumors are used to support other conclusions that have no evidence to provide support.

I used an example before concerning quotations attributed to Walt Disney. I've seen some people state that Walt Disney said, "If you can dream it, you can do it!" Yet Walt Disney never said such a thing. But over the years some people have concluded that the phrase is a direct Walt Disney quote.

“News told, rumors heard, truth implied, facts buried.”
― Toba Beta, My Ancestor Was an Ancient Astronaut
 
Darth Sidious

Darth Sidious

Authentically Disney Distinctly Chinese
coolbeans14 said:
Let me just talk through this, and help me if I've misunderstood:






So This is how I'm understanding of this whole Shanghai thing:

Iger has potentially gotten involved with a corrupt member of the Chinese government, who gained personally from construction such as Disneyland. The government are now investigating and if he has gotten into dodgy water then it could have serious repercussions on him, and the company.

The Chinese have a majority ownership of the resort, and are now rubbing it into Iger's face? Now Iger has to pretend that he still has control of the situation, but China basically owns this now. (Also I'm guessing Gary is the Viacom chief?)


So did Iger's believe this park would help the relationship Disney has with China? Instead, has it opened him to humiliation. And does this have the potential to ruin his career at Disney?

If I've understood right, then:
A) Wall Street are going to love him a little less
B) the Disney board might avoid a yes man next time they choose his successor
C) Disney has more or less given China access to their IPs and that's potentially very bad news for them
D) they have gained nothing from this venture

Please correct me if I've got this wrong?

P.S. Also, imagine how good this would be as a House of Cards style political drama. Heck, just cast Kevin spacey as Iger doing the Frank underwood stuff! :D
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Gary is a writer who is related to the Redstone family who have controlling interest in Viacom and CBS.
 
Nubs70

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Phil12 said:
Indeed but there is no appearance of impropriety to impartial observers.
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Here is what is known:
  1. An announcement of $800MM in additional attractions for SDL.
  2. Evidence of additional attractions in plans or field preparations are not apparent.
  3. An article questioning the $800MM was written inferring malfeasance related to the $800MM.
  4. Said article was retracted.
  5. Ultimate authority to retract said article lies with the wife of the principle of said article.
  6. Efforts were made to scrub said article from existence.
  7. High ranking member of Chinese SDL related entity is now under scrutiny for graft related to SDL project.
Since the addition of point 7, the hypothesis of malfeasance gains additional validity. As I have said earlier, the pot is thickening but not to the point of solid. A simple forensic accounting of the $800MM would answer questions and undermine the validity of the hypothesis.

  • Are there plans for additional attraction?
  • Are there change orders to completed or planned construction?
If the costs associated with the bullet points above add up to $800MM, then the hypothesis will be proven false.

Until the hypothesis is proven false, the appearance of impropriety will remain.
 
culturenthrills

culturenthrills

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
Meanwhile...south of Cabana Bay...this is going on...

View attachment 89384
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I realize we haven't seen the full plans for the water park. It just seems like a small landlocked areas. I wonder if they are going for a smaller boutique(high end) water park. Also how are they gonna get people to the park. If they are talking about parking people in the garage and bussing them over seems like an operational nightmare.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Nubs70 said:
Here is what is known:
  1. An announcement of $800MM in additional attractions for SDL.
  2. Evidence of additional attractions in plans or field preparations are not apparent.
  3. An article questioning the $800MM was written inferring malfeasance related to the $800MM.
  4. Said article was retracted.
  5. Ultimate authority to retract said article lies with the wife of the principle of said article.
  6. Efforts were made to scrub said article from existence.
  7. High ranking member of Chinese SDL related entity is now under scrutiny for graft related to SDL project.
Since the addition of point 7, the hypothesis of malfeasance gains additional validity. As I have said earlier, the pot is thickening but not to the point of solid. A simple forensic accounting of the $800MM would answer questions and undermine the validity of the hypothesis.

  • Are there plans for additional attraction?
  • Are there change orders to completed or planned construction?
If the costs associated with the bullet points above add up to $800MM, then the hypothesis will be proven false.

Until the hypothesis is proven false, the appearance of impropriety will remain.
Click to expand...
The only problem is the article never actually mentioned the $800M. There was only 1 sentence that even mentions the issues with graft in China:

Under Mr. Iger's stewarding, Disney has partnered with the Shanghai Shendi Group, an umbrella name placed on a panoply of government-owned companies created to facilitate Western investment as a massive anti-graft campaign is just now rattling Beijing and beyond, to introduce a Disney 'branded' park to those consumers.

The connection between bribes and the $800M was suggested by people here but it wasn't in the article. It may be a logical conclusion and all of the other points except #3 are factual.

Since it was quite a few pages back that this was posted, here is the full article again:

Disney CEO Fumbles Entry to China
Posted: 02/18/2015 4:45 pm EST

Sorry Mickey, they're just not that into you. Minnie, you either.

For that matter, you can take the whole stable -- the "Fab Five" of Walt Disney's animated creations -- and, despite a media machine that churns a very different story, China has largely been a land where the fabled wishes, dreams and magic of the Walt Disney Company and its brand have virtually no connection with the consumer. As valued as that consumer is in the economic theater of globalism, the iconic brand synonymous with America has little appeal and less traction among the newly seated audience in the Chinese mainland.

To its 'vanilla on toothpaste' helmsman, Robert A. "Bob" Iger, who has shown himself to be an able cobbler of assets but a less than visionary leader of the media colossus that is the Walt Disney Company, this troubling if known and growing headwind threatens to undermine the content-heavy but culturally aloof purveyor of demographically unshackled product. For in his zeal to expand its library of content, Bob Iger has drop-kicked the Disney moniker to enter new and expanding marketplaces only to position a product that runs well afar of the expectation of the Disney bounce.

In so doing, the once unrivaled status of the Disney brand has become a catch-all for entertainment and its associated byproducts that are increasingly a strange and sometimes conflicted ragbag of franchised acquisitions presented as some sort of media mélange for all ages and all palates. Or, as John Dreyer, the longtime and immediate past head of corporate communications for the Walt Disney Company, said upon the publication of the column Disney CEO Readies Magic Carpet for Exit, "Disney losing its Disney way."

With the company making its grandest play for a market that dwarfs all others, Disney has found itself adrift in a crisis of identity that breaches the foundation of the castle upon which an empire was built. For as turrets were raised, wings were added and a moat of meticulously positioned whimsy was filled in to expand the Disney footprint, something that looks decidedly more pedestrian than the fantastical inspiration for one of the world's most coveted brands has emerged.

Leverage has become the arch of entry into the Disney-verse, while the brand has been marginalized into a holding vehicle for assets that are worth more separately than that vested in the castle itself.

As Mr. Iger said at the 2013 Fortune Global Forum held in Chengdu:

I think the first thing you have to do is you have to obviously be aware of what your most significant brand attributes are. What makes your brand your brand? Why is it great? You have to focus on quality and on those attributes that, again, created the value in the first place. You can't look to cut corners. You can't look to make something with your brand on it that's any cheaper simply because it's going into a market that may not be able to afford it the way another market may have. You can't compromise in that regard. So it starts with what I'll call quality and a respect for an allegiance to the very brand attributes that created the value in the first place.
Now, considering Shanghai Disney is preparing to make its 2016 debut as Disney's first foray into the renminbi rich Chinese mainland after a less than stellar arrival in the former British colony of Hong Kong in 2005, there are lessons aplenty to learn from that delayed embrace and the long stalled entry into the single largest consumer market on offer to the world -- the whole of China.

Under Mr. Iger's stewarding, Disney has partnered with the Shanghai Shendi Group, an umbrella name placed on a panoply of government-owned companies created to facilitate Western investment as a massive anti-graft campaign is just now rattling Beijing and beyond, to introduce a Disney 'branded' park to those consumers. A flag in the ground for Disney. A flag that has been in the works since the prime of Michael Eisner's reign at Disney and one that nearly collapsed entirely by the summer of 2006.

Indeed, Mr. Iger had to leave the annual Herb Allen retreat for media moguls, tech tycoons and other scripters of society in Sun Valley for an unscheduled trip to Shanghai that day in 2006, scrambling to save face and leading to a denouement worthy of great scrutiny by any company -- especially those entities whose trade is in intellectual property -- wanting to enter China.

Or, as Dalian Wanda Group Chairman Wang Jianlin, whose real estate and entertainment empire is building its North American headquarters adjacent to the Beverly Hilton at 9900 Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills, said on the same panel at the Fortune Global Forum:

[W]e have so many Western companies in China, but you cannot simply replicate the Western ideas and philosophies in China. They need to adapt to the Chinese realities... So for Fortune 500 companies in China it's very important, it's imperative for them to learn traditional culture in China and how is it interrelated with the modern business culture.

Curiously though, the world beyond the berm is told the 330 million or so Chinese within a three-hour trip to the site on the other side of Shanghai's Pudong International Airport cannot wait to queue up for a boat ride on "It's a small world" or whatever Disney is offering up for its reported $5.5 billion marker. As, no, there will apparently be no attraction of that name at Shanghai Disneyland.

Not in China. Not in a country where Mickey, Minne and the rest of the gang are barely known. In a country where Disney might as well be Smith or Jones or Johnson. Well, maybe not that last one as Johnson & Johnson is actually a reasonably well-known brand throughout China.

The Walt Disney Company has a history of stumbling if not outright tumbling in its efforts to export Disney's brand of Americana. For reference, look no further than Euro Disney -- now known as Disneyland Paris -- and Hong Kong Disneyland. Of the latter, it is worth note that Disney has been known to Hongkongers from the early days of the Disney Brothers Cartoon Studio. Yet, to this day, with a direct link by MTR line to points throughout Hong Kong, Disney is barely able to keep up with the brand devoid, geographically hemmed in and animal exhibit heavy Ocean Park in Aberdeen.

Over lunch earlier this month at Neptune's in the Grand Aquarium, Ocean Park Hong Kong CEO Tom Mehrmann, who began his career as a street sweeper at Knott's Berry Farm just up the road from Walt's original Disneyland, said, "Disney still has to explain to some of its guests exactly what a 'Disney Park' is. We don't have that problem."

To further illustrate this point, visit Disney's outpost on Lantau, a parcel of reclaimed land near Hong Kong International Airport, and you will notice a different Disney. Some call it 'Disney-lite'. Others refer to it as 'McKingdom'. Regardless, there is a definite feel of a diminished product -- of a diminished brand -- on stage for the public's consumption.

For, on a spit of land with an audience topping seven million attached by subway line having a familiarity and a kinship with the West, sits the real experiment of Disney's entry into the Chinese market. And there, on a recent day, at a performance of The Lion King in a theater designed for Disney's Animal Kingdom in Orlando dropped into the Walt Disney Company's first Disney branded park in China, the actors sought to lead the audience in a rendition of the hit tune from this classic of Disney's second golden age of animation: Hakuna Matata.

Hakuna Matata.
What a wonderful phrase.
Hakuna matata.
Ain't no passing craze.
It means no worries.
For the rest of your days.
It's a problem free philosophy.
Hakuna matata.

Arms raised high in the air, cast members -- on stage and off -- encouraged the capacity crowd to sing the infectious chorus. With lyrics blasting through the speakers and flashing on screens in the theater, they sought a simple singalong to the catchy and commercial hit written by Elton John and Tim Rice. Unmoved, the audience sat stone-faced. Child and adult alike.

Considering most individuals reading this are likely humming the tune or hearing it play as part of the soundtrack of their lives, that speaks poorly of Disney's penetration into the far less foreign landscape of Hong Kong. As for Shanghai, Mr. Iger continued on at the conference in Chengdu:

We're a brand that is viewed as good for me and good for my family. There are values to the Disney brand and what it stands for that have interested people all over the world. But, it's very, very important that while we bring Disney to a market we make sure that in that market it feels like, for instance, China's Disney.
In leaving the park on that recent evening, the dressed by and for Disney MTR cars filled with tired visitors exposed to, saturated in, that which is the Disney Parks experience offered up in Hong Kong. Looking to the left, to the right, all around, not one visitor had that uniquely American rite of passage positioned upon their head. Mickey ears. Not one.

And, in the second largest market for its product and the largest consumer market on the planet, Disney's Frozen, the highest grossing animated film ever having delivered over $1.27 billion in ticket sales and the fifth-highest grossing film of all time, earned little more than $48 million. Less than four percent of its global box office.

Welcome to China, Bob.

Gary Snyder is a member of the Redstone family, whose company, National Amusements, owns Viacom and CBS, among other media assets. He is an advisor on Western media and culture to China.
 
R

RandySavage

Well-Known Member
Nubs70 said:
Here is what is known:
  1. An announcement of $800MM in additional attractions for SDL.
  2. Evidence of additional attractions in plans or field preparations are not apparent.
  3. An article questioning the $800MM was written inferring malfeasance related to the $800MM.
  4. Said article was retracted.
  5. Ultimate authority to retract said article lies with the wife of the principle of said article.
  6. Efforts were made to scrub said article from existence.
  7. High ranking member of Chinese SDL related entity is now under scrutiny for graft related to SDL project.
Since the addition of point 7, the hypothesis of malfeasance gains additional validity. As I have said earlier, the pot is thickening but not to the point of solid. A simple forensic accounting of the $800MM would answer questions and undermine the validity of the hypothesis.

  • Are there plans for additional attraction?
  • Are there change orders to completed or planned construction?
If the costs associated with the bullet points above add up to $800MM, then the hypothesis will be proven false.

Until the hypothesis is proven false, the appearance of impropriety will remain.
Click to expand...

The key "known" in your list is completely false & fabricated (#3). That article never questioned the $800.
 
michmousefan

michmousefan

Well-Known Member
spacemt354 said:
You do realize the two images you've posted are taken from completely different angles and at different crowd levels during the day. Not only is the area still not complete but there appears to be some type of show or display in front of the castle, that everyone is viewing in the second photo, which is why there are so many people in the area.

Again, criticism is valid, but there's a way to do it properly.
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Plus, one of the photos is an image-optimized (very likely a Disney publicity shot) with trees in peak season and the sky optimized to look as blue as possible, and the other has plants that have just been planted and trees that are out of season. Not a good comparison at all. Give it a few years and then we can compare apples to apples.
 
SJN1279

SJN1279

Well-Known Member
Anyone else not interested in Shanghai Disneyland and possible corruption? The only thing about Shanghai Disney that interests me is the new Pirates ride. I'm hoping it becomes successful and we elements of the attraction make their way to the states.
 
JediMasterMatt

JediMasterMatt

Well-Known Member
Disneyhead'71 said:
See, Universal made one of these too.

dsc09430.jpg


You know what they didn't do?

Put it in front of Hogwarts Castle.
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What's that in the upper right corner of the picture just above the words "Harry Potter" then?

Just be thankful that these people in the picture are going to be safe from any flying objects from Rip Ride Rockit as Universal is making sure everyone goes through the metal detectors at the ride's entrance. Thankfully, cavity searches haven't begun yet.

I could see Disney taking a look at what Universal has done with the amphitheater and getting ideas. Just think of what they could do at the MK by knocking down a few attractions and put big screen TVs in for guests to watch the fireworks/parades/and Castle shows on.
 

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