A Spirited Perfect Ten

[RandySavage]

The thing is though, people like us who are connoisseurs of quality theme parks, know the importance of theming and the little details, but how important is this really to a completely foreign audience?

There are numerous instances of Disney in the USA parks dropping little details and thematic touches which fall into the 'you don't notice them but you would if they weren't there' category in the hope that people won't notice after all, and attendance figures seem to show that they didn't.

Now apply that to China, where the average person doesn't have a clue whether a street is an authentic representation of a 19th Century American town or whatever. Those details matter even less.

Disney is banking on crowds flocking to the park because of the tight theming and attention to detail that the other parks lack, but if the other parks are getting 80% of the way there, how important is that extra 20% to the average Chinese guest? That's what remains to be seen, and why some of us are doubtful that SDL will be the smash-hit most people seem to think it will be.

A good point, and this is how I'd address it, trying to keep it brief: Great design (of theme parks or anything else) is not only about the little details, ornament and all that, but about the big five foundational elements: Order, Proportion, Hierarchy, Balance & Scale. Since the beginning of civilization, human beings have experimented, refined and perfected these elements into the art of building - across a myriad of traditional styles. Few can articulate what separates good design from bad, but most can sense it - because it evolved from human & natural sensibilities.

Most of that went out the window with the advent of Modernism, when Classical Architecture was no longer taught in the arch. schools and which is why buildings today (everywhere) are shadows of their pre-modernist counterparts. Theme parks and movies are the most common places to see throwbacks to the traditional styles, so art directors, conceptual artists and production designers now have a better grasp of millenia of traditional architectural learning than actual architects do.

China, just like the West, had its traditional, element-based architecture with which the populace is still familiar (I'm assuming), if not personally, than through film or books.

Even if the audience is not familiar with the western storybook castle or pirate village, they should still be able to sense and appreciate the difference between a very well-rendered one (via the Five Elements) and a poorly-rendered one (the knock-off park in question aren't anywhere close to being "there", because while the first-glance appearance may be quasi-Disneyland, the underpinning elemental foundations are absent).

What I hope/think SDL brings to the table will be China's first artfully designed park that gets those key elements right.

 

[RandySavage]

I'm also curious, since there's been a lot of talk of the lack of awareness/care for the Disney brand, as to when the mega media blitz for SDL will begin, if it hasn't already. Has not the time for secrecy passed? The Disney Store (across the street from the Oriental Pearl) should open in the next couple months with a Preview Center - hopefully with the full park model on display - similar to what the Paris site had. The topping-off of the castle should also come sometime relatively soon, which would be another occasion for a big reveal.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I wonder about how/if the "older" crop of MBA's education had a large cultural component to their curriculum.

Why I ask is that in Chinese culture age begets credibility. If the older Disney MBA's did not have cultural awareness pounder into their heads, in the Chinese eyes, those at Disney with business credibility are cultural bafoons and are offensive.

The younger MBA's at Disney very well have had cultural awareness pounded into their heads but do not have sufficient credibility with the Chinese due to the age factor nor with Disney due to lack of tenure.

Disney is in a cultural pickle.

I just don't know.

I don't know how business is done in China.

But I see the arrogance of Wall Street with how they deal with average Americans. I can't see that going over well in another culture. I've seen the arrogance of how Disney does business for the past 15 years. I really can't see that going over at all.

So it makes me wonder if Disney was properly prepared to do business in China.

So does anyone have a primer (seriously) on how business in China works?

 

[FigmentJedi]

And before you think this is some bizarre Chinese issue, I can recall people spending the day at EPCOT Center in the early 80s and saying nothing much was there, just some giant buildings and replicas of countries. Yes, good old Americans never thought maybe I should walk into The Land or Journey Into Imagination.

Also partly explains short lines on rainy days: Most people forget that there's so many indoor attractions

 

[BrianLo]

People from the mainland are actually afraid to enter showbuildings at HKDL. It's why you'll see large lines for the flat rides and the train and even the stage shows. But MM may well be a walk-on even if the park is busy. Why is that? People are afraid of what's inside. Same with Space Mountain or even PhilharMagic.

And before you think this is some bizarre Chinese issue, I can recall people spending the day at EPCOT Center in the early 80s and saying nothing much was there, just some giant buildings and replicas of countries. Yes, good old Americans never thought maybe I should walk into The Land or Journey Into Imagination.

The Chinese might not *get* it day one, but neither did Americans as you said. It requires some re-training. That doesn't mean it cannot ever happen though.

As far as show buildings go at HKDL... Winnie the Pooh by far is the most popular ride, perhaps then followed by Autotopia. If Mystic Manor has difficulties drawing a crowd, it is first and foremost a placement issue. Getting there is not intuitive whatsoever. If any attraction is consistently light on crowds though it is Small World, but that I'd chalk up to capacity in part.

Since you mentioned Mystic Manor merch as well, I'd give it a solid B+. It's pure gold if you compare it to anything sold at Tokyo, so I was pretty satisfied with it overall.

 

[ford91exploder]

I just don't know.

I don't know how business is done in China.

But I see the arrogance of Wall Street with how they deal with average Americans. I can't see that going over well in another culture. I've seen the arrogance of how Disney does business for the past 15 years. I really can't see that going over at all.

So it makes me wonder if Disney was properly prepared to do business in China.

So does anyone have a primer (seriously) on how business in China works?

@WDW1974 is probably the person here most qualified to comment on that, I can tell you business there is very much based on personal relationships. Speaking the language even badly is also a requirement for success at higher levels. Most educated Chinese have a decent grasp of both spoken and written english BUT the act of learning the language confers honor and 'face' on the student as it shows respect for China and it's values and respect for authority/age/wisdom is a key element of Chinese culture.

One thing as a 'Gwai Lo' you will NEVER as a westerner be considered equal to the lowliest Chinese person in a business settng, You can be a friend or a trusted advisor. This of course does not apply to relations to indvidual Chinese as Sprit notes 'almost his brothers'.

 

[Hakunamatata]

One thing as a 'Gwai Lo' you will NEVER as a westerner be considered equal to the lowliest Chinese person in a business settng, You can be a friend or a trusted advisor. This of course does not apply to relations to indvidual Chinese as Sprit notes 'almost his brothers'.

So in business China you are not equal because your not Chinese? Hmmm. Sounds like we need to export some Western political correctness.

 

[Cesar R M]

I'm also curious, since there's been a lot of talk of the lack of awareness/care for the Disney brand, as to when the mega media blitz for SDL will begin, if it hasn't already. Has not the time for secrecy passed? The Disney Store (across the street from the Oriental Pearl) should open in the next couple months with a Preview Center - hopefully with the full park model on display - similar to what the Paris site had. The topping-off of the castle should also come sometime relatively soon, which would be another occasion for a big reveal.

I actually wonder why they didn't made a deal to set up a disney channel 5-10 years ago and blast movies/series nonstop to "brainwash" the chinese population and make the Disney brand popular.

or is there a channel already?

 

[Cesar R M]

So in business China you are not equal because your not Chinese? Hmmm. Sounds like we need to export some Western political correctness.

via atomic bombs?

 

[BrianLo]

Since the topic is China, and the potential hazards that Disney might face over there, I thought this little aside would be relevant.

I just stumbled onto this article on Facebook:
http://www.upworthy.com/everyone-wa...-views-later-its-still-up-watch-it-here?c=bl3

I've never been over to China so I can't say from personal experience, but....wow...they really have a problem with their air over there.​

Unfortunately (maybe Fortunately?), this is my only experience with Shanghai 1.5 years ago.

Which is why I have a hard problem accepting that pollution is going to make SDL unvisitable.


I think the general sentiment seems to be that everywhere in China is one amorphous blob of a country, when it really is not. Pollution is a problem, but it is not half the problem that it is in Beijing. Knowledge of Western culture is a problem, but not half the problem that it is in Beijing.

Shanghai for the most part is a very modern, mostly clean, more Western focused (with economic free-trade zones) than much of the rest of China.

If pollution and lack of knowledge (or even dislike) of Western culture is the main concern, at least Disney picked the right place to enter the market.

I'd frankly be far more concerned for Universal, they will face twice the problems up in Beijing... and that's not something you hear the Universal fanbois ever mention when they poo-poo on SDL.

Again, I'm still aware pollution is a problem, but most of the really (really) bad stuff you hear is not Shanghai. It's like saying you shouldn't build a park in California because you heard about all the hurricanes they get, or not building a park in Florida because the big earth quake is expected anytime now.

 

[Hakunamatata]

via atomic bombs?

Nah. We need to save those. I think we may need to turn a few deserts into glass parking lots in a few years.

 

[ford91exploder]

Nah. We need to save those. I think we may need to turn a few deserts into glass parking lots in a few years.

Sooner the better on that one, Besides we need to make synthetic tektites for collectors...

 

[ford91exploder]

I actually wonder why they didn't made a deal to set up a disney channel 5-10 years ago and blast movies/series nonstop to "brainwash" the chinese population and make the Disney brand popular.

or is there a channel already?

That would have been the smart play, The really old Disney shorts especially the ones featuring the 'Fab 5' - skipping the more culturally loaded stuff. Along with stuff made for and by the Chinese unique Disney characters just for the Chinese market made by local studios.

 

[ford91exploder]

So in business China you are not equal because your not Chinese? Hmmm. Sounds like we need to export some Western political correctness.

Good luck on that one... That's one export which will NEVER take.

 

[BernardandBianca]

This is the point I've been trying to make. People assume property rights exist in china, They do not at least as we westerners know them. China will ALLOW an individual to hold 'property' but that holding can be revoked (and routinely IS) revoked by the government if the bureacracy feels that another holder can make a use which is more beneficial to the chinese people.

China regards property as a asset of the State, Individuals may be granted the right to hold it temporarily but make no mistake it's a state asset and subject to reassignment at any time for any reason.

I still remember an incident we were involved in a couple of years ago. We were part of a tour group traveling in Asia, and were booked on a flight from Chengdu to Tibet, a flight of a couple of hours. About 5 days prior to our flight, our tour guide got a message that the Chinese government wanted the plane and flight. So we were booted off, and forced to get to Tibet by flying via Hong Kong. With layover, it took about 14 hours, and we lost a day of our tour. Got nothing.

 

[ford91exploder]

I still remember an incident we were involved in a couple of years ago. We were part of a tour group traveling in Asia, and were booked on a flight from Chengdu to Tibet, a flight of a couple of hours. About 5 days prior to our flight, our tour guide got a message that the Chinese government wanted the plane and flight. So we were booted off, and forced to get to Tibet by flying via Hong Kong. With layover, it took about 14 hours, and we lost a day of our tour. Got nothing.

Sorry to hear that but it happens ALL the time, It may also have been a tactic to deter westerners from visiting Tibet which is a really touchy subject with the Chinese national government

 

[PhotoDave219]

So in business China you are not equal because your not Chinese? Hmmm. Sounds like we need to export some Western political correctness.

Ha!

via atomic bombs?

errrr..... China has nukes as well. They'd shoot back.

 

[Cesar R M]

Unfortunately (maybe Fortunately?), this is my only experience with Shanghai 1.5 years ago.

Which is why I have a hard problem accepting that pollution is going to make SDL unvisitable.


I think the general sentiment seems to be that everywhere in China is one amorphous blob of a country, when it really is not. Pollution is a problem, but it is not half the problem that it is in Beijing. Knowledge of Western culture is a problem, but not half the problem that it is in Beijing.

Shanghai for the most part is a very modern, mostly clean, more Western focused (with economic free-trade zones) than much of the rest of China.

If pollution and lack of knowledge (or even dislike) of Western culture is the main concern, at least Disney picked the right place to enter the market.

I'd frankly be far more concerned for Universal, they will face twice the problems up in Beijing... and that's not something you hear the Universal fanbois ever mention when they poo-poo on SDL.

Again, I'm still aware pollution is a problem, but most of the really (really) bad stuff you hear is not Shanghai. It's like saying you shouldn't build a park in California because you heard about all the hurricanes they get, or not building a park in Florida because the big earth quake is expected anytime now.

I still say, why China doesn't build many high smart skyscrapers with plenty of plants.
they do help a lot on pollution.

 

[Cesar R M]

Ha!



errrr..... China has nukes as well. They'd shoot back.

not that many.. less than 100 if I remember correctly.

 

[DisDan]

not that many.. less than 100 if I remember correctly.

How many nukes does it take to be a threat?