A Spirited Perfect Ten

[ford91exploder]

In other news the 'Invincible' TWDC downgraded again.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/di...sses-and-cord-cutting-fears-linger-2016-01-05

 

[lazyboy97o]

Dont they recoup the tentpole cost by selling merchandize,park experiences, games and other stuff?

What about ALL the commercials over the holidays that used Star Wars? Ive seen everything from a Jeep commercial, Campbells Soup, Sprint, Wal MArt and Subway. How exactly does that work? Do they pay Disney for the use of the IP?

If so, I would think Dis recouped a good bit of coin because there were a lot of companies using Star Wars characters in their ads.

That all depends on who the deal is with. If it is with Walt Disney Consumer Products then it doesn't matter how much is sold, that money never goes to Walt Disney Pictures. Yes, they are all owned by The Walt Disney Company but it's all composed of separate companies with separate books, and that is important because those separate books do dictate decision making. Keeping Marvel and Lucasfilm as independent within Disney wasn't just about maintaining a creative culture, but also maintaining the tangled web of organization, licensing, etc. that already existed within these companies.

 

[ford91exploder]

I've thought this with each Box Office Mojo update. TFA stands at $1.5 billion after 17 days, which most would see as monumental. However, I cannot help but feel that Disney executives are wildly disappointed that it has yet to eclipse Avatar.

It will be so nice if Avatar remains #1 just to see what that would do to Disney's so called Star Wars 'Strategy',

If I had been in Iger's shoes as soon as I had secured Star Wars I would have started groundwork on the SWL in DHS with it's 'phase 1' being elements of the classic Star Wars being built out at lightspeed even stopping Avatar until SWL opens.

Instead we have this half-baked strategy which by official estimates gets us a SWL somewhere around 2022-2023. Five or so years AFTER the last picture. But the ego driven Iger wants the SWL to represent HIS Star Wars vision. yeah the new SWL needs to have those elements as well but Iger's forgetting the first rule of pop culture i.e. strike while the iron is HOT.

Look at what UNI did with the HP franchise, They got it up and running while the movies were still in the theaters, The fan base was not happy so UNI significantly plussed the second and third phases. And they built themselves a factory which prints money, When I was there it was amazing to see the number of people especially Chinese girls channeling Cho Chang buying complete sets of robes and all the accessories which go with them (figure at least $300/pp)

Plus lots of unique high end items for the hard core fans most notably at Borgin and Burkes.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It will be so nice if Avatar remains #1 just to see what that would do to Disney's so called Star Wars 'Strategy',

If I had been in Iger's shoes as soon as I had secured Star Wars I would have started groundwork on the SWL in DHS with it's 'phase 1' being elements of the classic Star Wars being built out at lightspeed even stopping Avatar until SWL opens.

Instead we have this half-baked strategy which by official estimates gets us a SWL somewhere around 2022-2023. Five or so years AFTER the last picture. But the ego driven Iger wants the SWL to represent HIS Star Wars vision. yeah the new SWL needs to have those elements as well but Iger's forgetting the first rule of pop culture i.e. strike while the iron is HOT.

Look at what UNI did with the HP franchise, They got it up and running while the movies were still in the theaters, The fan base was not happy so UNI significantly plussed the second and third phases. And they built themselves a factory which prints money, When I was there it was amazing to see the number of people especially Chinese girls channeling Cho Chang buying complete sets of robes and all the accessories which go with them (figure at least $300/pp)

Plus lots of unique high end items for the hard core fans most notably at Borgin and Burkes.

What alternate reality are you living in where 19+5=22 and Hogsmead was considered a disappointment?

 

[wdisney9000]

That all depends on who the deal is with. If it is with Walt Disney Consumer Products then it doesn't matter how much is sold, that money never goes to Walt Disney Pictures. Yes, they are all owned by The Walt Disney Company but it's all composed of separate companies with separate books, and that is important because those separate books do dictate decision making. Keeping Marvel and Lucasfilm as independent within Disney wasn't just about maintaining a creative culture, but also maintaining the tangled web of organization, licensing, etc. that already existed within these companies.

Makes sense. But in terms of something like a commercial which Wal Mart paid Disney for use of the SW characters, Disney makes a profit and has little to no cost involved in earning that profit since they are just selling the rights to use the IP.

Even if Disney Pictures doesnt get that profit, wouldnt it still count as revenue generated by the movie? If Wal Mart paid $3 million dollars to use the IP and it went to a different division of the company, I would think that some, if not a large chunk of that $3 mill will find its way on to the profit sheet of the movie. (the $3 million figure was just a number I used for the sake of the discussion)

 

[ford91exploder]

What alternate reality are you living in where 19+5=22 and Hogsmead was considered a disappointment?

When it initially opened it was a HUGE success with the general public, However the hardcore fans were not happy because so many of the shops were simply storefronts and could not be explored, That was fixed as part of the Hogwarts Express/Diagon alley expansion and the proliferation of interactive elements especially those which are wand activated.

Hogsmeade was rushed so it would open while the movies were in theaters, (in compliance with rule #1 of pop culture strike while the iron is HOT) but it was never intended that phase #1 would be the final state, But since phases 2-3 were under construction the hardcore fans while grumbling gave UNI a pass. Now UNI has a license to print money.

 

[ford91exploder]

Makes sense. But in terms of something like a commercial which Wal Mart paid Disney for use of the SW characters, Disney makes a profit and has little to no cost involved in earning that profit since they are just selling the rights to use the IP.

Even if Disney Pictures doesnt get that profit, wouldnt it still count as revenue generated by the movie? If Wal Mart paid $3 million dollars to use the IP and it went to a different division of the company, I would think that some, if not a large chunk of that $3 mill will find its way on to the profit sheet of the movie. (the $3 million figure was just a number I used for the sake of the discussion)

Look up 'Hollywood Accounting' as to how this works ie complex corporate structures designed to ensure movies do not show a PROFIT

 

[lazyboy97o]

Makes sense. But in terms of something like a commercial which Wal Mart paid Disney for use of the SW characters, Disney makes a profit and has little to no cost involved in earning that profit since they are just selling the rights to use the IP.

Even if Disney Pictures doesnt get that profit, wouldnt it still count as revenue generated by the movie? If Wal Mart paid $3 million dollars to use the IP and it went to a different division of the company, I would think that some, if not a large chunk of that $3 mill will find its way on to the profit sheet of the movie. (the $3 million figure was just a number I used for the sake of the discussion)

I can't really talk about Star Wars specifically since I am not familiar enough with Lucasfilm's structure. But let's switch to Disney to continue the example. Walt Disney Pictures doesn't own the intellectual property of its characters, that is owned by Disney Enterprises. So Walmart using characters would be licensing from the Studio. There would be an understanding that the franchise as a whole is profitable for Disney, but it doesn't necessarily make the film itself more of a success (still ignoring Hollywood Accounting).

This is really the big problem with Walt Disney World. It isn't a single place, but a whole bunch of competing businesses.

 

[wdisney9000]

I can't really talk about Star Wars specifically since I am not familiar enough with Lucasfilm's structure. But let's switch to Disney to continue the example. Walt Disney Pictures doesn't own the intellectual property of its characters, that is owned by Disney Enterprises. So Walmart using characters would be licensing from the Studio. There would be an understanding that the franchise as a whole is profitable for Disney, but it doesn't necessarily make the film itself more of a success (still ignoring Hollywood Accounting).

This is really the big problem with Walt Disney World. It isn't a single place, but a whole bunch of competing businesses.

Forget hollywood accounting, it seems Disney has created their own bizzaro fractional accounting system, which Im sure they reap to no end.

In a slight breach of my normal doom and gloom mentality, I have defended Disney in regards to SWL and how they will, or how they MUST spend the money to make this land a home run. I was sure that Star Wars Launch Bay would somehow wet our whistle with a taste of the imagination to come. (ya, I just read that last sentence, insert your perverted jokes at will). But alas, it was not anything to get overly excited about. Knowing what you just broke down in regards to their accounting methods makes me rethink my position and even if they spend $2 billion dollars at HS they will somehow find a way to miss the mark in terms of an in depth, high quality themed land that could/should compete with Potter at Uni yet they will still harp to the BOD of its glory and profitability. I hope Im wrong and I realize that SWL has little do with what you described in relation to profit distribution within the company, but it just all seems like a fuddled mess they have created in an effort to hide behind it when needed, or rant and rave about it when it suits them.

 

[Mike S]

What alternate reality are you living in where 19+5=22 and Hogsmead was considered a disappointment?

Not to mention people saying to expect SWL in 2019-20.

 

[WildcatDen]

Since when is the tent pole strategy not on topic?

That's what she said. . .

 

[lazyboy97o]

Forget hollywood accounting, it seems Disney has created their own bizzaro fractional accounting system, which Im sure they reap to no end.

In a slight breach of my normal doom and gloom mentality, I have defended Disney in regards to SWL and how they will, or how they MUST spend the money to make this land a home run. I was sure that Star Wars Launch Bay would somehow wet our whistle with a taste of the imagination to come. (ya, I just read that last sentence, insert your perverted jokes at will). But alas, it was not anything to get overly excited about. Knowing what you just broke down in regards to their accounting methods makes me rethink my position and even if they spend $2 billion dollars at HS they will somehow find a way to miss the mark in terms of an in depth, high quality themed land that could/should compete with Potter at Uni yet they will still harp to the BOD of its glory and profitability. I hope Im wrong and I realize that SWL has little do with what you described in relation to profit distribution within the company, but it just all seems like a fuddled mess they have created in an effort to hide behind it when needed, or rant and rave about it when it suits them.

It's a crazy mess but it's does not have to all just about screwing with numbers. Should a Mickey Mouse plush sold today still be counted as a profit for Steamboat Willie? Would a Darth Vader action figure count as profit for Star Wars or Revenge of the Sith? And in theory, the toys being outside of the films should help protect from toy-focused decisions because they don't directly impact if the studio makes any money.

In regard to Star Wars land and the franchise obsession, this type of organization does give a means of gauging the success of a franchise outside of a single film. It's a big part of how a decently performing film (Cars) became a marquee, twelve acre land and two sequels.

To me the biggest source of fear with Star Wars Land is that it was dictated by Wall Street. The theme park rights to Star Wars have been Disney's for decades and not much has been done. And I know it drives people nuts when I say it, but Star Wars, for all of is named and seen locations, is very lacking in a strong sense of place. People go on and on about wanting the Mos Eisley Cantina but building what is seen in the film won't get you much more than the blank walls in the Launch Bay. The bar looks cool, but if you want to bring out your inner smuggler you'll be at a booth with bare, beige walls and a simple table. That isn't exciting and other attempts to bring the Cantina to life rely on lots of actors and/or cosplay. The new planet concept means all those bits can be brought together into one amalgamation that works together instead of having to have different extreme, not very Central Florida or Southern California-esque climates sitting right next to each other.

 

[Cesar R M]

It will be so nice if Avatar remains #1 just to see what that would do to Disney's so called Star Wars 'Strategy',

If I had been in Iger's shoes as soon as I had secured Star Wars I would have started groundwork on the SWL in DHS with it's 'phase 1' being elements of the classic Star Wars being built out at lightspeed even stopping Avatar until SWL opens.

Instead we have this half-baked strategy which by official estimates gets us a SWL somewhere around 2022-2023. Five or so years AFTER the last picture. But the ego driven Iger wants the SWL to represent HIS Star Wars vision. yeah the new SWL needs to have those elements as well but Iger's forgetting the first rule of pop culture i.e. strike while the iron is HOT.

Look at what UNI did with the HP franchise, They got it up and running while the movies were still in the theaters, The fan base was not happy so UNI significantly plussed the second and third phases. And they built themselves a factory which prints money, When I was there it was amazing to see the number of people especially Chinese girls channeling Cho Chang buying complete sets of robes and all the accessories which go with them (figure at least $300/pp)

Plus lots of unique high end items for the hard core fans most notably at Borgin and Burkes.

Id rather not see them fail on this. it could means that Star Wars might be downgraded in the parks as well.

 

[gonzoWDW]

http://www.seattletimes.com/life/tr...tractions-to-make-way-for-new-star-wars-area/

Funniest line of this article: "A completion date has yet to be announced for the “Star Wars” land, but industry experts predict that an opening date could be at least a year away."

Spirit, should I book my trip to Disneyland for the opening now, or should I wait to see if construction takes thirteen months?

It'll be announced in 12 parsecs

Edit: I know parsecs are a unit of distance, but hey, it's Star Wars

 

[RSoxNo1]

Through Monday, The Force Awakens is now 4th all time and 2nd Domestic. By the end of day on Wednesday it should overtake Avatar's Domestic #.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Through Monday, The Force Awakens is now 4th all time and 2nd Domestic. By the end of day on Wednesday it should overtake Avatar's Domestic #.

Im guessing the critics that loved it, then hated it, will love it again.

 

[ford91exploder]

It's a crazy mess but it's does not have to all just about screwing with numbers. Should a Mickey Mouse plush sold today still be counted as a profit for Steamboat Willie? Would a Darth Vader action figure count as profit for Star Wars or Revenge of the Sith? And in theory, the toys being outside of the films should help protect from toy-focused decisions because they don't directly impact if the studio makes any money.

In regard to Star Wars land and the franchise obsession, this type of organization does give a means of gauging the success of a franchise outside of a single film. It's a big part of how a decently performing film (Cars) became a marquee, twelve acre land and two sequels.

To me the biggest source of fear with Star Ears Land is that it was dictated by Wall Street. The theme park rights to Star Wars have been Disney's for decades and not much has been done. And I know it drives people bus when I say it, but Star Wars, for all of is named and seen locations, is very lacking in a strong sense of place. People go on and on about wanting the Mos Eisley Cantina but building what is seen in the film won't get you much more than the blank walls in the Launch Bay. The bar looks cool, but if you want to brin out your inner smuggler you'll be at a booth eith bare, beige walls and a simple table. That isn't exciting and other attempts to bring the Cantina to life rely on lots of actors and/or cosplay. The new planet concept means all those bits can be brought together into one amalgamation that works together instead of having to have different extreme, not very Central Florida or Southern California-esque climates sitting right next to each other.

To do a proper Cantina one would need to do something along the lines of the now closed Quarks Bar in the LVH, Actors would be needed for atmosphere. Disney had a decent start with the 'Rebel Hangar' during the last (now defunct) SWW, But I'm guessing that was too expensive for the beancounters.

It's interesting that UNI can pull off themed quick service dining (Leaky Cauldron) ie order at register, get handed a candle go to the seater and your food delivered by a runner. without many distracting elements and Disney does not seem able to take the concept beyond a bad college dining hall.

 

[ford91exploder]

Not to mention people saying to expect SWL in 2019-20.

Those dates are fanboi foaming, Backstage tour has been closed for nearly a year and a half and not a shovel of dirt has been moved. Heck THE PERMITS to move dirt have yet to be filed.

Basically Disney is dragging their feet on SWL, I have a feeling DL will get SOMETHING with their SWL long before WDW sees a single shovel of dirt moved.

 

[Arthur Wellesley]

Im guessing the critics that loved it, then hated it, will love it again.

One thing that baffles me is the audience scoring of the film.

On Rottentomatoes, it sits at a strong 90% approval among movie-goers. But on MetaCritic, the user rating is an underwhelming 6.9, which brings TFA to the 3rd least-liked film in the series among audiences, just above Attack of the Clones, and (understandably) The Phantom Menace.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Those dates are fanboi foaming, Backstage tour has been closed for nearly a year and a half and not a shovel of dirt has been moved. Heck THE PERMITS to move dirt have yet to be filed.

Basically Disney is dragging their feet on SWL, I have a feeling DL will get SOMETHING with their SWL long before WDW sees a single shovel of dirt moved.

Unsurprising. Out of interest, do you have a link to the "official estimates" that Star Wars Land will open at DHS in 2022-23? I've tried to keep up with latest news at DHS as best as I can but I can't recall reading that anywhere.