A Spirited Perfect Ten

BlueSkyDriveBy

Well-Known Member
I spent a fair bit of time going over our discussion of Jim, his past crimes, and his connections to present day Disney and Universal. With a bit of perspective behind it, I think I have a better grip on what Jim and his highest profile defenders were saying.
Excellent post! I especially find this part the most relevant to our current discussion:

While most top shelf media organizations receive these freebies/comps as well, writer for these organizations have to explicitly say they received them and many legitimate media organizations refuse them or reimburse these gifts/comps. It is as if Jim's con has changed, only it's a quid pro quo and legal.
The fact that representatives of TWDC who utilize professionals like Jim to advocate for their brand have either decided to ignore his past criminal entanglements with Disney or are simply oblivious to them, is troubling. It's one thing to actively downplay the quid pro quo nature of these professional relationships. That's bad enough. But it's another to ignore previous relationships that would shine potentially damaging spotlights on Disney's dealings with these brand advocates, further calling Disney's ethical standards into question.

Since TWDC obviously has no problem with keeping mum on their quid pro quo relationship with these online fan personalities, I'm guessing they wouldn't have any problems with Jim's past as well. More's the pity.

Lesson of the day: Take every single review, opinion, factoid, or comment from these Disney advocates with a very tiny grain of salt. Talk to your friends and family members first about any Disney product or service before shelling out your hard earned Disney Dollars. Anyone posting online about All Things Disney™ -- including me -- should be seriously scrutinized for truthiness of content.

(Full disclosure: I do not work for TWDC, nor do I have a quid pro quo relationship with them. I do own two shares of Disney stock when my Pixar One Share converted, so make of that what you will.)
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
However, Jim isn't the only individual who does this with Disney or Universal. Lou Mongello can go on and on about the wonderful time he had at Aulani and how all of his listeners must go and experience it like he did. Whilst he bloviates, he fails to mention that his vacation to Aulani, including airfare, room, and meals, cost $6000-7000 for which he was comped by Disney. And no, having a disclosure statement hidden on your website barely meeting legal compliance is simply not good enough.

Well I never thought those travel mags or TAs paid their own way either.. yet we survived with them being the main types of reviews out there for decades. At some point the burden needs to go back to the reader to be your own skeptic. These people are not objective independents... that's all the world really needs to know and accept. The rest really comes across as crying over spilled milk.
 

BlueSkyDriveBy

Well-Known Member
Does the Unofficial Guide Disney Dish podcast generate money for your company?
Exactly!

Why would anyone spend this much time and effort in producing all of this online content if there was zero financial reward? Even if that reward was simply comps and invites to exclusive special events?

None of these advocates are doing this out of the kindness of their fan boy hearts. They might peddle that narrative in order to give themselves an air of authenticity, but it's crap. This is done for professional gain. Which is almost always tied to financial gain, at least that's typically the goal.

If there wasn't any considerable compensation for the advocates' actions, we'd never know about any of them. It's all about conning the ignorant fan boy marks for professional gain. And Disney has perfected the con into high performance art.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Well I never thought those travel mags or TAs paid their own way either.. yet we survived with them being the main types of reviews out there for decades. At some point the burden needs to go back to the reader to be your own skeptic. These people are not objective independents... that's all the world really needs to know and accept. The rest really comes across as crying over spilled milk.
I agree, a lot of folks are just plain dumb. They need big bold letters saying ADVERTISEMENT or ADVERTORIAL CONTENT produced by X. Take for example the two soccer moms I saw yesterday who couldn't be bothered to care that their children and their children's friends were throwing rocks at oncoming traffic and playing in the street on a busy road. I get that. However, what I take issue with is how folks like Jim, Ricky, and Lou are muddying the line so much that it is difficult for the casual reader to tell. It isn't that hard to say "I got comped to attend the grand opening of Diagon Alley or Cars Land". Tom Bricker does it so why can't they do it as well. Disclosure of benefits received by the company you are covering isn't some difficult task. If you respect your readers, you should be straight with them and if you don't you should be called out on it.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
FAM (familiarization) trips are still fairly common in the industry. Agents are encouraged to sign up for them to get to know the product better.

Yeah, I know, the comment was kind of tongue in cheek. The issue isn't that people are getting free trips (tho that distinction is lost)... for some it's because
- they don't agree with who Disney is choosing to treat
- they don't agree that these people are worth being handled BETTER than traditional Press
- they don't agree with the new world thinking of schmoozing online personalities instead of traditional press

When you come from the traditional press world.. (yes, even the extravagant life of media reporting)... you see companies embracing these 'amateurs' as 3rd rate competition for your time with your buddies and in a way undermining the status quo.

Take all that in, and realize they may really hate the direction Disney has taken... so to show how BAD of a business choice that is.. they go to show just how bad of a choice this is..
- show how little reach these people have (awful mommy blogger examples)
- show how easily manipulated they are
- show how these are liabilities you really shouldn't be associating with
- show how the lifestyle and social circle of most of these people is extremely distorted compared to the average reader

At the end of the day.. this whole mission isn't about Disney comp'ing people and lathering them up... That's as old as time itself. It's not a mission to create fully independent, dedicated, objective reviewers. It's about a guy's disagreement with the idea of Social Media engagement in lieu of traditional press.

A disagreement that is more of a traditionalists view, that has not adapted properly to the new way people prefer to consume their news and content. There are changes that need to be made there, and frankly @WDW1974 has been slow to see the change there.

The struggle over objectivity without biting the hand that feeds you is not unique to Disney at all.. and is prevalent in most industries, be it travel, consumer goods, etc. The mantra of places like Consumer Reports is nice.. but it doesn't have to be the sole model. As long as people are TRUTHFUL.. that's more important than skew.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
It isn't that hard to say "I got comped to attend the grand opening of Diagon Alley or Cars Land". Tom Bricker does it so why can't they do it as well. Disclosure of benefits received by the company you are covering isn't some difficult task. If you respect your readers, you should be straight with them and if you don't you should be called out on it.

I don't disagree... but it's probably part of why I don't pay a single second being bothered with what they write. I simply don't care.. and its not my role in the universe to save the stupid from themselves. As much as I kick and scream... you aren't going to separate people from WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR. Be it shock jock FoxNews garbage, or how the latest menu offering is amazeBalls.. I can't rely on those sources as legitimate things to base my own conclusions on. So I don't. I can't stop them, and frankly I have better things to do than even attempt to. Once we establish something as lacking objectivity or credibility... I don't need to relive it every 24hrs. If something comes up to change that, ok, I'll listen... but something about a dead horse comes to mind here.

In the interim, as a consumer I'll happily take advantage that there are people who somehow have worked out relationships and business models that allows them to map out, track, video, and take pictures of things I'm interested in for me... free to me. I can watch ride videos and see photos without having to get involved with the social media circle jerk. I've watched it.. and want nothing to do with those cess pools or those 'experts'.
 

ChrisM

Well-Known Member
It certainly wasn't intended to be a "Gotcha!" post. I tried to keep everything couched in a pertinent discussion about Disney and it relationship with certain Social Media personalities. But, hey...I'm no journalist. No professional writer. I tend to just dump information and let the chips fall where they may.

It absolutely was a "gotcha" post and your repeated denials of that being a motivation are, frankly, hilarious.

If Jim's specific transgressions were only tangential to your larger point you wouldn't opine as to his character with your following quote:

"First, I applaud Jim for coming in and giving his side of the story. Gutsy move. I wonder if, had this not come out, would he have ever opened up abut it?"

Protest all you want, Lee. But your giddiness to knock him down a peg is painfully transparent and absolutely unseemly. And while everyone here appreciates the inside information you have access to and mete out to the sorry peasants here (myself included) in dribs and drabs, that doesn't automatically make you an awesome person above deserved criticism, regardless of what some of the sycophants around here may want to believe.
 

flyerjab

Well-Known Member
Still going on about this.

I get that posters are indulging in the stratosphere of ethics, integrity and the like. I simply find it amusing that people talk about bloggers being open about past misdeeds and their financial relationships with Disney when the clarion call is being sounded by someone with the screen name of dreamfinder, or anyother poster's call sign for that matter (including mine). If people demand something of someone, regardless of the circumstances, they should be as open themselves about who they are and what they did however many years ago. I guarantee you this, if we all knew each other's names, what we have done and do currently, as well as past misdeeds, our opinions of other forum members would change, in some cases significantly.

I actually applaud Jim for what he did. He absolutely did not need to do that. Also, if this was intended to be a more general question of the relationship between Disney and independent bloggers that post biased opinion pieces about the BRAND (the use of caps always makes me laugh), why did Jim's name even have to be used? The name could have been kept out of it and the point would not have been muted at all.

On Saturday, I could have walked up to any one of the 50,000 guests and asked them if they new Jim, his quasi relationship with Disney, or the fact he committed crimes against Disney, and they would have looked back at me like I was an idiot. To the hyper fans on a site like this I suppose it is important. But many people are big boys and girls and whether they read lifestyle blogs about Disney that convince them to come here, they will form their own opinions.

In the end, he supports Disney and they allow it. As well as all of the other Ricky's, Lou's, etc. of the blogosphere. When I was here in the summer, a chef was arrested for allegedly raping a woman at the House of Blues. Maybe they should vet their chefs better - in other words - their actual employees.
 
Last edited:

michmousefan

Well-Known Member
Unless Frozen falls flat on its face, then the seal may spring back to life with a mighty roar
Just can't imagine a scenario in which that will happen. The low capacity of the ride will endure long waits just about no matter what time of day one visits. In fact, the long waits may force them to pull the trigger sooner rather than later on other attractions in WS. I'm actually not that opposed to Ratatouille in France... as long as they don't touch Impressions de France. Well, they could freshen the edit with a few new shots, here and there... might be nice to see a car driving around Paris that was manufactured in this century!
 

BlueSkyDriveBy

Well-Known Member
A disagreement that is more of a traditionalists view, that has not adapted properly to the new way people prefer to consume their news and content. There are changes that need to be made there, and frankly @WDW1974 has been slow to see the change there.

The struggle over objectivity without biting the hand that feeds you is not unique to Disney at all.. and is prevalent in most industries, be it travel, consumer goods, etc. The mantra of places like Consumer Reports is nice.. but it doesn't have to be the sole model. As long as people are TRUTHFUL.. that's more important than skew.
Therein lies the problem: the so-called news that people are digesting now is little more than opinion disguised to appear as news.

Traditional journalism a la Walter Cronkite is dead. As a result, objective fact-based reporting has been replaced with partisan opinionated propaganda. Who cares if that's what media consumers want. Adopting the "new media" keeps them ill-informed and beholden to truthiness instead of well vetted facts based in reality.

Well-respected professional travel journalists writing about trips to Disney resorts have far more objectivity at their core than the mommy blogger crowd working their angles for free family vacations. The professional travel journalist is completely dependent upon truthful reporting in order to maintain a viable career. Mommy bloggers are completely dependent upon Disney's approval in order to maintain low cost travel and entertainment for their families.

The truthiness of the mommy blogger/online fan advocate reports will satisfy the casual Disney consumer, much to the delight of TWDC. Just as folks don't want to spend their downtime researching the truth behind mainstream media news reports, they don't want to spend dozens of hours researching various resorts for the annual family vacation. They're satisfied with the mommy blogger/online fan advocate reports that essentially tell them where to go and what to do when they get there. And there are plenty of unethical "journalists" online who will gladly spoon-feed them the truthiness they seek in exchange for free passes and invites to special events, whether or not that compensation is ever fully disclosed.
 

indyumd

Well-Known Member
I spent a fair bit of time going over our discussion of Jim, his past crimes, and his connections to present day Disney and Universal. With a bit of perspective behind it, I think I have a better grip on what Jim and his highest profile defenders were saying. The goal of Jim's post here was to place his crimes in a personal context so that any further discussion of the very valid issues, including whether or not he withheld this information from his employers and Celebration Place/D23, as attacks on the character of a private person. But, Jim is not a private individual to be afforded privacy here, he is and has been a public figure for 25-30 years who actively promotes himself as a Walt Disney Company and entertainment industry expert having written for prominent Disney-centric online publications like Mouse Planet and Laughing Place as well as his current position as an credentialed journalist at the Huffington Post.

Len and Jim's ex, Fabby, have clear financial interests, revenue generated by the podcast and the unofficial guide's reputation and a chunk of Jim Hill Media respectively, to see this story go away. Those posts both advance the narrative established by Jim that any scrutiny of his past crimes are an attack on him as a person. Len specifically greets questions over whether he had known about Jim's past prior to last week with a non answer even suggesting he can speak on behalf of Disney on this matter.

But enough about that, the core of the issue remains; The Walt Disney Company's relationship with social media personalities. For at least the past five years, Jim has chosen to cover Disney by closely hewing to the PR message of the day, no matter the subject. Jim's writing on Universal can be characterized much the same way as well. In exchange, Jim receives generous perks from both Disney and Universal. While most top shelf media organizations receive these freebies/comps as well, writer for these organizations have to explicitly say they received them and many legitimate media organizations refuse them or reimburse these gifts/comps. It is as if Jim's con has changed, only it's a quid pro quo and legal.

However, Jim isn't the only individual who does this with Disney or Universal. Lou Mongello can go on and on about the wonderful time he had at Aulani and how all of his listeners must go and experience it like he did. Whilst he bloviates, he fails to mention that his vacation to Aulani, including airfare, room, and meals, cost $6000-7000 for which he was comped by Disney. And no, having a disclosure statement hidden on your website barely meeting legal compliance is simply not good enough.

The cornerstone of Disney's social media strategy relies upon BRAND advocates to evangelize the company and its various products, be it movies, tv shows, toys and of course theme parks. Lou, Ricky and Jim are at the top of the Disney/Universal BRAND Advocate food chain, they effectively operate with a seal of approval from these companies. Thanks to the access and approval they have received, Jim, Ricky and Lou have been able to cross over to gigs in media as journalists or paid experts; Jim writes for Huffington Post, Ricky at Fox News, and Lou for the local Fox TV affiliate in Central Florida.

This is the central problem with Jim's past and current behavior, he operates as if the ethics of his position do not apply to him. Jim may consider himself a changed man from the man of twenty years ago, but just because his behavior is not illegal does not make it ethical. For a company like Disney with a reputation for protecting its image, the decision to have people like Jim, Ricky and Lou blur the line between compensated BRAND Advocate and Journalist reeks of unethical and dishonest behavior towards their media employers and readers/listeners.

God bless the Internet!
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Just can't imagine a scenario in which that will happen. The low capacity of the ride will endure long waits just about no matter what time of day one visits. In fact, the long waits may force them to pull the trigger sooner rather than later on other attractions in WS. I'm actually not that opposed to Ratatouille in France... as long as they don't touch Impressions de France. Well, they could freshen the edit with a few new shots, here and there... might be nice to see a car driving around Paris that was manufactured in this century!
Circa 1999 and because it's Star Wars week
 

BlueSkyDriveBy

Well-Known Member
Protest all you want, Lee. But your giddiness to knock him down a peg is painfully transparent and absolutely unseemly. And while everyone here appreciates the inside information you have access to and mete out to the sorry peasants here (myself included) in dribs and drabs, that doesn't automatically make you an awesome person above deserved criticism, regardless of what some of the sycophants around here may want to believe.
So what if the actual objective to reporting the info was to knock down Hill? Why is that necessarily evil?

Obviously, you don't have a problem with what Hill did 20 years ago on Disney property, nor his current symbiotic relationship with Disney, even in light of what happened 20 years ago. But many of us do have a problem with it, especially given how Disney historically treats former employees who've been caught doing far less questionable activity, be it legal or otherwise.

Giving Hill an official blessing as an online advocate is a slap in the face to former employees with permanently toasted Disney careers who made stupid immature one-time mistakes. Hill's "mistakes" were neither born from youth nor one-time incidents. Yes, they were stupid. And he paid the price. But why is he continuing to be rewarded by the same company he committed multiple instances of fraud against when single acts of minor infractions by others continue to garner lifetime professional punishment?

Frankly, this entire incident reeks of TWDC fiefdom. Burbank more than likely has no clue about Hill's past, which his consumer products handler has kept mum about in order to exploit his knowledge and online popularity. It will be interesting to see if his role as Disney advocate ultimately survives, now that the cat's out of the bag.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom