A Spirited Perfect Ten

[PhotoDave219]

Part of me is curious what this debate is about.... and the rest of me just doesnt give a crap.

 

[Phil12]

What you are quoting is rather iffy in its understanding of Disney history, conflating concepts that were not one and the same and born out of contemporary views.

Walt and Roy’s feud can be found in Chapter 24 of Bob Thomas’ excellent book, Building a Company: Roy O.Disney and the Creation of an Entertainment Empire (Hyperion, 1998). And it was clear to Roy Disney that Walt might be sued for the obvious conflict of interest that Walt Disney Inc. created. Roy was right and Walt was sued and the conflict of additional lawsuits caused problems between the two brothers for many years.

And it should be pointed out that the Clement Melancon lawsuit revolved around the assertion that Walt Disney was using Walt Disney Inc. (later named WED) to improperly funnel profits from Walt Disney Productions to Walt's personal company. The lawsuit was settled out of court in favor of Clement Melancon. As a condition of the settlement, Melancon was prohibited from discussing the settlement terms.

 

[doctornick]

And to take it a step further, you said this: "Education entertainment is dead at Disney but thriving in the industry," which implies that Disney's peers ("the industry") are succeeding at educational entertainment (thriving at it, even). I'd love to know which of Disney's peers are doing such.

Seriously. I don't know of any examples in theme parks of people doing edutainment on any notable level and certainly not to a degree that Disney has done in the past. If someone truly thinks that "Education entertainment is dead at Disney but thriving in the industry" I'd love to hear of some examples of this.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Seriously. I don't know of any examples in theme parks of people doing edutainment on any notable level and certainly not to a degree that Disney has done in the past. If someone truly thinks that "Education entertainment is dead at Disney but thriving in the industry" I'd love to hear of some examples of this.

Theme parks aren't the limits of themed entertainment.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Part of me is curious what this debate is about.... and the rest of me just doesnt give a crap.

I wouldn't say you're missing anything of value. Without getting into specifics (though you may already have deduced this much), the argument is regarding how Walt Disney conducted his business as well as his primary motives. I'll give you a very brief idea in two sentences if you want to know the other piece you're missing (spoiler tagged out of respect if you don't):

Spoiler

A handful of the usual suspects are arguing that Walt was essentially a nasty, conniving and greedy scumbag at heart. Constantly in bed with corporations because he was actually a purely profit-driven and money-obsessed man above all else.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I wouldn't say you're missing anything of value. Without getting into specifics (though you may already have deduced this much), the argument is regarding how Walt Disney conducted his business as well as his primary motives. I'll give you a very brief idea in two sentences if you want to know the other piece you're missing (spoiler tagged out of respect if you don't):

Spoiler

A handful of the usual suspects are arguing that Walt was essentially a nasty, conniving and greedy scumbag at heart. Constantly in bed with corporations because he was actually a purely profit-driven and money-obsessed man above all else.

Ahhhhhhhh. Lets get a Ouijia board and ask Walt ourselves?

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Ahhhhhhhh. Lets get a Ouijia board and ask Walt ourselves?

Will do, contacting now....

........WAIT! Got a message coming through right now! Walt himself wants to comment on this topic... Here's what his message says-

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

The whitewashing of history happens all the time and Disney is neither solely nor partially responsible. Media, academics, activists, etc... everyone that "bears false witness" by commission or omission all play a part in creating a false impression of history.

For example: Historical movies taken as fact such as Saving Private Ryan. If you ask younger people if they know about WWII, they often say they learned all about it from Saving Private Ryan.

One project I would like to do it to take the text from speeches from Triumph of the Will and compare it to current political speeches.

Disney is an idealized recollection of the past with a postulation of the future. If a high brow academic cannot figure this out, they are not worth the money invested in their education.

Or they learned it from Forrest Gump. And I'm sorry, but I cannot stand that movie.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I wouldn't say you're missing anything of value. Without getting into specifics (though you may already have deduced this much), the argument is regarding how Walt Disney conducted his business as well as his primary motives. I'll give you a very brief idea in two sentences if you want to know the other piece you're missing (spoiler tagged out of respect if you don't):

Spoiler

A handful of the usual suspects are arguing that Walt was essentially a nasty, conniving and greedy scumbag at heart. Constantly in bed with corporations because he was actually a purely profit-driven and money-obsessed man above all else.

BUT look at the great art he and his team produced- in so many different mediums.

 

[StageFrenzy]

Can't wait till spirit returns and turns it to Eleven, hopefully he has some DHS deets in tow.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Can't wait till spirit returns and turns it to Eleven, hopefully he has some DHS deets in tow.

I dunno, I think he's just kicking back and earning interest....

As for DHS details? Most of my people are saying "I can't talk about that for awhile"

 

[StageFrenzy]

I dunno, I think he's just kicking back and earning interest....

As for DHS details? Most of my people are saying "I can't talk about that for awhile"

I figure Spirit could wheedle some more details out of people. I wonder if the NDAs are reaching critical mass where too many people have been involved and can't be traced yet?

 

[PhotoDave219]

I figure Spirit could wheedle some more details out of people. I wonder if the NDAs are reaching critical mass where too many people have been involved and can't be traced yet?

Im pretty sure theres purposeful misinformation being spread.

 

[Cesar R M]

The concept might, but it's not nearly to the degree it is today. 2015 is worse than ever for media/information/technology overload. If you don't understand/believe that, you weren't around in the 80s/90s.

I think there's a greater need than ever to turn your brain away from the noise. I believe that people, today more than ever, go to WDW because they want fantasy and wild tales, not lectures.

Not that there isn't a balance that can be struck, but it's hard, especially when Harry Potter is a smashing success down the street. It's probably hard to justify "intellectual" entertainment to an investor in light of things like that.

I have to agree. the Media started to exaggerate beyond belief with their fear bombardment.. because they know FEAR sells.
I wonder if soon we will start to become completely apathetic and uninterested towards fear based "news".
I mean, a fine example is car drivers.. who.. thanks to the bombardment of too many signage.. that they automatically "ignore" the road signs! I remember reading a story about this.
That the brain just " gets used" too much when things are everywhere.. that they start to become invisible for the brain itself.

Again, you're not saying anything new. The overload of the 90s was worse than the 80s. The overload of the 1890s worse than the 1880s. The notion is also beyond an occasional respite, it is a notion regarding the entirety of popular culture.

you're missing the point.

 

[Cesar R M]

When are you going?

New years eve to January 6 on Disney World and 6 to 9 to Universal.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I have to agree. the Media started to exaggerate beyond belief with their fear bombardment.. because they know FEAR sells.
I wonder if soon we will start to become completely apathetic and uninterested towards fear based "news".
I mean, a fine example is car drivers.. who.. thanks to the bombardment of too many signage.. that they automatically "ignore" the road signs! I remember reading a story about this.
That the brain just " gets used" too much when things are everywhere.. that they start to become invisible for the brain itself.



you're missing the point.

The ignore button works wonders…

 

[PhotoDave219]

New years eve to January 6 on Disney World and 6 to 9 to Universal.

Let me look at a calendar but I think you might be fine as your week goes on… Universal should be great.

 

[Cesar R M]

Go look up Thea Award recipients.

sorry, but this really demands a image macro...

 

[Cesar R M]

Ive done my research. Probably too much research. I'm not writing an essay here. I simplified the point. I'm just saying that to think Walt did everything for the money is to undermine his drive and intentions. There are so many instances within the films and park where he spent far more than he needed to elevate the art forms he was working in. Those aren't the actions of a greed driven person like you're describing. Allow people their complications and contradictions. The deal to sell his own name to his company is smart in my opinion. Secured his family would be taken care of long after him. I don't even see it as greedy honestly. But again, I'm a capitalist.

I actually wonder his reasons.. was Walt aware of his health or was frail of health during the creation of that Walt Inc thing?
Could be there another reason? Could he imagine that Disneyland was finally stable enough to start "farming" it and think "life after the Mouse" ?

Ahhhhhhhh. Lets get a Ouijia board and ask Walt ourselves?

or just stop the Walt Spinning Electrical Generator for a bit at MagicKingdom... Unfreeze him and then ask him.

 

[Cesar R M]

Will do, contacting now....

........WAIT! Got a message coming through right now! Walt himself wants to comment on this topic... Here's what his message says-

I have another image, unfortunately.. might be a bit rude...

PM me if you want to see it XD

I dunno, I think he's just kicking back and earning interest....

As for DHS details? Most of my people are saying "I can't talk about that for awhile"

Disney cracking down on the leakers?