A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

[ChrisFL]

DLP circa mid 2000s was worse than 2012. WDW is heading towards Anaheim circa late 90s. And we know how that ended.

So we should wear crash helmets on the fast rides now...got it.

 

[betty rose]

Just reading some of the coverage on Disney's earnings ... 6.9% down is pretty telling.

Also pretty telling: WDW (and UNI as well to a lesser extent) was simply not crowded at all for the first week of May. Now, May once was a slow month, one of the slowest of the year as a matter of fact, but it felt worse this year.

And it also felt yet again like a depressing place, a place on the verge of closing. I don't know how people aren't getting that, except I guess they never visited in 1973 or 1987 or 1995 or even 2000. Depressed, slovenly, overworked CMs. Guests overwhelmed by prices (yes, dinner really starts at 11 a.m. at the Crystal Palace ... yes, the Diamond Horseshoe is open again just with no show and a $33 a person family style dining experience ... yes, that a la carte lunch steak that is no higher quality than what you can get at Outback Steakhouse really is $51).

We are DVC and are changing our dinning plans for our June trip. We have always eaten all meals inside the bubble. This year, due to increased costs, breakfast will be in the room, we are stopping at the grocery first. A snack that we bring in. Dinner over at City Walk. We are just as tired of the increases, and we have been going since the park opened. Not interested in Pandora, no draw for us. Not Star Wars Fans, no draw there. Nothing to do at Epcot. I'm frozen to death. And don't get me started on the filthy bathrooms. Things are very disgusting right now. Every bathroom needs to be torn down and rebuilt, right now they are full of hazerdous waste.

 

[ford91exploder]

So we should wear crash helmets on the fast rides now...got it.

More like don't get on if you value your life, The incident(s) at DL culminated with a BTMRR train literally coming apart.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/disneyland-slammed-for-ride-death/

 

[PhotoDave219]

DLP circa mid 2000s was worse than 2012. WDW is heading towards Anaheim circa late 90s. And we know how that ended.

Couple of people died because of that, right?

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

DLP circa mid 2000s was worse than 2012. WDW is heading towards Anaheim circa late 90s. And we know how that ended.

Indeed, but this time i don't see a definitive end for wdw's problems. At least DL got the help it needed because of a perfect storm of activism and bad press (not to mention the board's growing hatred of Eisner). Should similar issues happen at WDW (deaths due to mismanagement), i cannot see anything that would be able to prevent its continuation. The board seems to mostly like Iger, and anyone with the ability to rally change are either dead (Roy jr), removed from power (imagineers like Tony Baxter) or just don't care about WDW as they do Disneyland. I don't know if anything can stop this train wreck anymore, even if people end up dead from rides falling apart like at DL...

 

[ford91exploder]

Couple of people died because of that, right?

Yup

 

[WildcatDen]

Some of us are trained observers in college majored in Engineering and minored in Photography paid for school by being a photographer when you are a photographer you are trained to SEE everything and how it will affect the image you are trying to create. So I 'see' things that others skip over.

So. . .



I see dead people. . .

 

[betty rose]

Just as @WDW1974 ventured into the Kingdom for the first time in awhile, my wife and I took our youngest to the Magic Kingdom, which we hadn't visited since June 2011. To put it in perspective, I went as a child on vacation to WDW annually from New England and when my wife and I lived in Orlando, my goodness, we burned holes through those annual passes. Here's some of our observations and they're probably what you've noticed as well:

To start on a positive note, we found the Cast Members to be downright pleasant everywhere we went, which was a huge improvement over our prior several visits (and dropping by Downtown Disney over the past few years). They were helpful, very nice, and really great with our little guy. It was the first time in ages that we didn't see Cast Members chatting about things on-stage with other Cast Members, which had/has become a huge problem over there. I also noticed that operations and legal seemed to give them some latitude because if there was stupid behavior or someone not listening during a safety spiel, they flat-out called them out. It was a pleasant surprise.

Selfies have become a disease. It was deplorable. It doesn't matter where on the globe the visitor was from, it was insane whether at the MK or UNI. Parents desperate to be their children's friends taking selfie one after another throughout entire rides were maddening. People taking pictures of themselves literally in every nook and cranny, yet barely taking pictures of what they came to see (I assume themselves at this point) or paying attention to anything. Spend a day at the Magic Kingdom and it's a perfect microcosm for what has gone south. Now, for the main event, what our money sucking DISNEY (R) Company has done. (Let's just ditch "The Walt" out of the company name because we're way beyond that point today...")

Since we were going to have our six year old going around the MK from opening to late in the night, we figured why not take the tram to start the day? He thought it looked cool and since he was going to use his legs all day (unlike some children upwards of 10 in strollers.. ugh), we figured, cool. We boarded the tram and the gray paint was filthy nearly everywhere. Not a surprise. The Cast Member doing the spiel was really enthusiastic and did a good job. It reminded me of the old days.

We took one of the ferries over from the Ticket and Transportation Center and right away, the declining degrees were apparent: It was filthy. Dirt on the light bulbs, worn off paint, filthy floors, you name it. We entered the park with the superficial security and were thinking about if this is the security "show" that they are putting on for the masses, what must be going on that we don't see? Orange County and Disney K9 vehicles were very noticeable right from the get-go. The security screeners were very kind and I was pleased that they at least made a process that when it's busy is going to be downright exhausting, pleasant. Interestingly enough, we found that the metal detectors at the MK were not nearly as sensitive as the one coming from Loews Resorts at UNI where we stayed.

There was no shortage observations, so let me just stick to some of the highlights. We found trash to be all over the place. My wife would mention that we would go back to the same area quite a good time later and the same trash was still there. The cleaning crew cuts are incredibly noticeable today along with the fact that people are nothing short of being classless slobs. On the Haunted Mansion, when boarding the Doom Buggies, to the right of the vehicles, there were countless water bottles, wrappers. and junk that people had tossed aside.

The Aladdin spinner looked way better than last time as the paint had been peeling all over it, but the little things like paint chipped in the queue, worn off the pathways, that was very apparent. Show areas of the Jungle Cruise where there are rocks as ground coverage had weeds all over the place, but I'm sure that's now rationalized as it simply looks natural. Splash Mountain looked way better than the last time and all the show scenes looked to be in good shape. I was really pleased. Just as @WDW1974 stated, short lines to be had on many attractions. 5 mins in the morning and 5 mins at night to get on Splash.

It's time to go down the rabbit hole and hopefully get through to some of the pixie dusters. Marquee attractions like It's a Small World and the Haunted Mansion were downright disasters. Before this era, these rides would not be in operation because their working conditions were so deplorable. The first time in the Haunted Mansion, we had audio issues in the stretching room to the left, they had an area where they had a piece of the wallpaper cut out and replaced, which was amazingly apparent, when the room was fully stretched out, the top of the wallpaper above was ripped, blackened, a mess. In the other stretching room, the audio was upgraded and apparent, but so was one of the stretching room picture frames that was warped and bowed out. It was unreal. The scrims throughout the graveyard scene were filthy. Not to be outdone was It's a Small World, which was probably the worst looking show that we've seen in almost 35 years of visiting WDW.

It's a Small World, go through the queue and be welcomed by the clock tower that is filthy. The numbers with brown dirt and dust caked on them. As for the attraction itself, there were so many show elements that were down that I lost track. Black walls that had huge white streaks running down them. The final scene won hands down as the we had clowns in balloons frozen in time, lights off in several scenes, burnt out light bulbs, and even one step better than burnt out lightbulbs, places where they had simply removed them and hadn't replaced them. Top it all off with the narcissistic or caste system setup with the names of certain guests at the end. The Space Mountain building was dirty and rusty all over the place. You could see areas of the support beams on the side where they let the paint peel and then covered it with a thin layer of paint where it becomes very apparent of the different layers of paint being applied.

When exiting the Peoplemover, there was dust and dirt caked at the end of the Goodyear walkway. They can't even simply clean the place any longer? $112 to get in the place, they can manage to not have giant dustballs. 50's show scene father in the Carousel of Progress has the movement of someone with a neuromuscular disorder. Buzz Lightyear's "Z" targets were worn down, I could go on. It all looks tired.

After long days at our company, my wife and I would visit twice a week one of the parks and have dinner. When we would go to Epcot, a meal at The Electric Umbrella for two orders of chicken fingers and two beverages ran a tab of $17 with tax. This was from the late 90's until the mid-00's. We ate with our son at Cosmic Rays and for $50.18 we had two veggie burgers with fries, three beverages, and a salad with grilled chicken. Dole Whip at $4.19 a cup. Price points on merchandise that are so overinflated, it was something.

I couldn't help but think of the families there that went because of that marketed obligation to visit WDW and how they paid for their trip. The costs are astonishingly high and how much debt are many of these guests racking up just to pay for the basics of the vacation? Most families staying on-property, paying the exorbitant prices for lousy food, and kitsch in the shops simply don't have it. For many of us that can swing the cost, we aren't interested in doing so as at this point, it's fiscally foolish and I can't get past how much less you're getting while paying so much more. Queues that now take twice the time because of the FastPass+ disaster. Omnimovers like The Little Mermaid moved at a snails pace because of the alternating loads of the standby and FastPass.

Lastly, when leaving, we must have hit the Monorail jackpot because our train had been full refurbished inside and was the best that it had looked in years.... and it didn't smell!

For those of you that are new or newer to WDW, you honestly don't have any idea as to how far the product has fallen. They wrote the book on quality, care, and being superior. They now fail on nearly every account. I was glad to visit attractions that we haven't been on in several years and used to on a regular basis, but after that full day at the MK, there isn't a desire to go back unless they get their act together. The next Disney theme park that we'll do is overseas. It's all a far cry from being a child that was so inspired by EPCOT Center.

Thank you, I feel the same way, a million times over.

 

[TP2000]

Couple of people died because of that, right?

First death was in December, 1998 on the Sailing Ship Columbia after Paul Pressler and Cynthia Harriss had been running Disneyland into the ground for almost three years, and a month later Cynthia Harriss got promoted from Disneyland Senior VP to Disneyland President. That death (plus several horrific injuries) directly led to the State of California taking over annual inspections and outside supervision of theme parks in California in 2000. Florida officials still have no such authority at WDW.

Second death was in September, 2003 on Big Thunder Mountain and a month later Cynthia Harriss resigned suddenly and effective immediately with a statement from Disney that she wanted to "spend more time with my family" as an unmarried woman without children.

In between those two deaths were five years of lower and lower expectations and a park that was falling apart, plus a little thing called Disney's California Adventure version 1.0.

The good news is that the turnaround in Anaheim was breathtakingly fast. They brought in Matt Ouimet from the Cruise Line in October, 2003, calendar year 2004 was nothing but rehabs and paint, and by May, 2005 when the 50th Anniversary kicked off Disneyland had regained its sparkle and magic.

 

[drummond]

OP is such a delight.

 

[friedriches]

And we know how that ended.

I would love even a little elaboration there... I'm unaware of that time period.

EDIT: I typed this and didn't hit send immediately because of a distraction in the room... TP2000 has elaborated above!

 

[wm49rs]

OP is such a delight.

As is your bell end commentary. But, I'm sure you were aware....

 

[hopemax]

What's really sad, is going through any theme park with dirt and grime being the sole focus of your visit. I challenge anyone to visit any venue without finding that, and worse. I wonder if their 'little guy' noticed any of the 'filth'. What a stilted commentary. :-(

Unfortunately, the "little guy" gets no reward in the end. The sad thing, is that WDW is playing out like Disneyland did 15 years ago. When they added the NBC overlay on the Haunted Mansion they found out how much of the structure had rotted away, and it took several years of NBC overlays to squeeze out the budget to restore the attraction. When they rehabbed Space Mountain, it wasn't just the track that was bad, they also found about half of the projectors had stopped working. How much effect does that much not working have on the experience for the "little guy?" When the Enchanted Tiki Room was restored, the difference was night and day. Given how many effects I know aren't working in various attractions, and given Disneyland's history, and given Florida's more punishing climate, I don't even want to think about what percentage of effects are actually functional at WDW and what shape the structures are in; because in the great scheme of things, what an individual guest knows about the effects is small (unless you're Martin). That does no one any favors. Guests pay for a deteriorated experience, and then go home feeling like things are "dated." WDW is looking at spending many more millions to design a new attraction, when there was more mileage to be had out of the original, if only everything was kept clean and functional. And take what we hear out of the Frozen redo, "the building was in worse shape than they thought, and that created delays." You think that is only true about Maelstrom's show building? New paint is only one detail out of hundreds that need to be attended to; but somehow they've learned as long as you paint you don't have to do X,Y,Z because people will see the new paint and think everything is taken care of.

Only, unlike Disneyland, there is no one who believes a different way is better. This is the WDW, management desires. At some point, the narrative will once again be that "theme parks are a mature market," and not worth the investment, when all it really was, was people that got tired of spending a lot of money for something that is dirty and broken.

 

[ford91exploder]

Don't worry guys you're all in good hands. My friend is a Global Intelligence Intern at WDW. We slayed quite a few bars together back in college he's got you all covered.

Seriously though, I'm a little disappointed in the few people here that used this thread as an opportunity to fear-monger. Disney has moved in the right direction in terms of security. The trend in terror plots/attacks recently indicate low profile, population dense areas are now sadly the apparent targets. You're just at risk (or maybe less at risk?) at Disney World as you would be in a crowded NYC restaurant lacking even the charade of security.

IF I was your buddy's boss I'd make sure that he was unemployable in that field for even TELLING you what he was doing. because with a little effort he can be targeted because we know he knows YOU. There is a reason a certain three letter agency in Langley VA had a sign that said 'National Highway Administration' out front.

 

[alphac2005]

Yes he is the same guy that said Shanghai Disneyland wouldn't be ready for opening and from the pictures and video I've seen that isn't true. He is now telling you to blame the Nextgen for the budget cuts. He goes from one extreme to the next.

C'mon, his accuracy over the years has been astonishingly good. He was blaming Nextgen for budget cuts all along and it seems as though Shanghai is now adding to the budgetary issues.

 

[cinderellafan6]

So basically...Have a magical time in the most wonderful place on earth while security stands around and decides who to pat down...Magical, so magical. "What's that you have in your purse ma'am?" "My epipen..." I've had to say that many times to many security guards in my life.

I know the feeling!!!!! I carry mine around too!

 

[ford91exploder]

First death was in December, 1998 on the Sailing Ship Columbia after Paul Pressler and Cynthia Harriss had been running Disneyland into the ground for almost three years, and a month later Cynthia Harriss got promoted from Disneyland Senior VP to Disneyland President. That death (plus several horrific injuries) directly led to the State of California taking over annual inspections and outside supervision of theme parks in California in 2000. Florida officials still have no such authority at WDW.

Second death was in September, 2003 on Big Thunder Mountain and a month later Cynthia Harriss resigned suddenly and effective immediately with a statement from Disney that she wanted to "spend more time with my family" as an unmarried woman without children.

In between those two deaths were five years of lower and lower expectations and a park that was falling apart, plus a little thing called Disney's California Adventure version 1.0.

The good news is that the turnaround in Anaheim was breathtakingly fast. They brought in Matt Ouimet from the Cruise Line in October, 2003, calendar year 2004 was nothing but rehabs and paint, and by May, 2005 when the 50th Anniversary kicked off Disneyland had regained its sparkle and magic.

Note that Matt Ouimet was kicked to the curb by Iger and Company and he's making huge improvements over at Cedar Fair (who as a percentage of revenue are reinvesting more into their business than Disney who is STILL spending the least expressed as a percentage of revenue of any theme park company in the US) Sends a great message to other employees 'save our collective butt and get fired'. Oh well no good deed goes unpunished.

 

[ProfSavage]

Okay, is it just me or is no one else that impressed with Shanghai? Yes, Pirates and Tron looks amazing but I get the feeling that the sum is not equal to the parts over there...

 

[betty rose]

It is easy to blow his comment off but there is a point to it in my opinion. For example, I was there just a couple weeks ago and did not notice any issues with cleanliness. To me, the park is cleaner than it was 5 or 6 years ago. I notice less of these issues compared to then.

On the other hand, another person may have a completely different experience. Different people notice different things.

I wish you could go in the Disney women's bathrooms. They are filthy. With a big F from Disney.

 

[Mike S]

What's really sad, is going through any theme park with dirt and grime being the sole focus of your visit. I challenge anyone to visit any venue without finding that, and worse. I wonder if their 'little guy' noticed any of the 'filth'. What a stilted commentary. :-(

It's hard not to notice some of this stuff like the small world problems or a half empty baby bottle in the HM load area.

Most of us are rational people. I gather we all still have fun at WDW or we'd stop investing so much of our time in this nonsense. But most of us notice two things: an undeniable astronomical increase in prices coupled with (variable) declines in quality. WDW is not hell. But it could, should, and used to hold itself to a higher standard. That doesn't mean Splash Mountain isn't still fun. But the property is declining and complacency is not the appropriate response. If your best friend is becoming a drunken mess but still tells good jokes, do you ignore his decline or do you try to intervene? It's not as black-and-white as some make it.

Plus for some of us a trip to WDW doesn't cost a fortune so we don't feel as much of a sting. $140 (only $33 actually going to Disney) for last weekend was totally worth it for me.

As if on cue, another Sentinel theme park reporter (sic) turned to Twitter today to get reactions to the on-ride videos from Shanghai. Is this what passes for journalism today?

Of course, after he asked, the usual blogging suspects and Twitter personalities started replying with laughable predictability. One guy said the quality of Shanghai's Pirates and Tron are exciting for WDW fans, because it shows us the quality of attraction that will be coming to Florida.

I'm sorry, but I've been burned by WDW's new attractions for so long that I'll believe it when I see it. Not to mention Tron looks like a sexier neon version of RNRC (read: short with underwhelming show scenes).

After reading this thread (and seeing how DAK's nighttime show is still in limbo), I'm so glad I didn't purchase that AP earlier this year. In fact, the only reason I could justify going to WDW is because I'm in Florida; in no reality would I drop several (or many) thousand dollars to visit WDW. In fact, we let our UO passes expire and we might renew if Kong gets good reviews. If (as rumor has it) Kong repeats the Everest mistake of botching its AA finale, I'll probably wait about going back there until next year.

I don't understand how Orlando, the theme park capital of the world, isn't home to more world-class E-tickets. And the ones it does have, for the most part, all opened 15-20+ years ago. Chew on that.

The Kong finale problem as I've read it isn't anywhere close to the Yeti.

Note that Matt Ouimet was kicked to the curb by Iger and Company and he's making huge improvements over at Cedar Fair (who as a percentage of revenue are reinvesting more into their business than Disney who is STILL spending the least expressed as a percentage of revenue of any theme park company in the US) Sends a great message to other employees 'save our collective butt and get fired'. Oh well no good deed goes unpunished.

Same can be said of Steve Burke at Universal. I sense a trend here.