A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

[COProgressFan]

Yeah and remember the really ****ed off people because of it…?

Disney probably doesn't remember this because the bad managers that put that in place have likely been hidden away somewhere else. Disney Hides bad managers more often then the Catholic Church hides bad priests…

It was indeed ugly and you are correct on the 'Manager Protection Program' for bad Disney managers.

The bad managers are hidden away in other positions where they can keep working at destroying everything once special about WDW. Once you've made it to management levels, no one is ever fired, no matter how incompetent you are.

WDW "leadership" seems to have virtually no institutional memory. They often continue to make mistep after mistep never learning a lesson the first time around. People in lower and middle management roles move around so frequently there seems to be no collective memory on what works and what doesn't. There are times it seems like (and cast member friends have told me) the company acts like it hasn't operated theme parks for the past 60 years...

For 40 years or so DL and WDW perfected the art (admittedly there were stumbles along the way) of successfully and profitably operating theme parks, and in the recent decades it seems they go out of their way to forget or disregard everything they learned along the way.

 

[Omnispace]

The bad managers are hidden away in other positions where they can keep working at destroying everything once special about WDW. Once you've made it to management levels, no one is ever fired, no matter how incompetent you are.

WDW "leadership" seems to have virtually no institutional memory. They often continue to make mistep after mistep never learning a lesson the first time around. People in lower and middle management roles move around so frequently there seems to be no collective memory on what works and what doesn't. There are times it seems like (and cast member friends have told me) the company acts like it hasn't operated theme parks for the past 60 years...

For 40 years or so DL and WDW perfected the art (admittedly there were stumbles along the way) of successfully and profitably operating theme parks, and in the recent decades it seems they go out of their way to forget or disregard everything they learned along the way.

The issues go hand-in-hand with a major misconception in the business world -- that a "manager" can manage anything, whether it's consumer products or theme parks. There also seems to be an arrogance in current management that they know so much better than those that came before. Add that to the current expectations on the stock exchanges that place profit above all else and you get what's currently happening to WDC.

As for those attendance figures and price increases at WDW -- I'm sure that WDC is looking at the loss of attendance versus making more on each guest. It would be interesting to see the affect of attendance and price increases from a revenue perspective.

 

[PhotoDave219]

But I thought that was all part of the Weatherman's grand plan? Remember that nonsense from the earnings call a few weeks ago about "price adjustments sometimes at the expense of attendance" or along those lines?

Gotta hand it to Disney; they've really put WDW in a pickle with all of the contradictory decisions of the past decade. You can't:

- Increase prices by 40-50% over 5 years and expect people to not notice.
- Build new hotel rooms and DVC but not new rides or park areas.
- Increase resort attendance while failing to invest in new transportation infrastructure.
- Cut back on maintenance and expect 20-30 year old attractions to still work reliably (or even look decent).
- Nickel and dime guests and CMs over things like soda and guest passes while continuing to throw money at things like NGE/MM+.

In short, you can't have a reliable, healthy return on investment if you're unwilling to invest in your business.

Are you saying that marketing alone wont sustain a business long term?!!?

 

[Mike S]

Are you saying that marketing alone wont sustain a business long term?!!?

Especially when that marketing mostly focuses on your hotels. This is the most common ad I've seen on TV for a while now and it's all fluff.

 

[mickeyfan5534]

It's because there's nothing in the parks worthwhile enough to advertise.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

Especially when that marketing mostly focuses on your hotels. This is the most common ad I've seen on TV for a while now and it's all fluff.

Again, same problem as with the "New Fantasyland," lots of style, and very little substance to back it up. Like Little Mermaid - great, immersive queue, the ride itself - just meh. Very Six Flags of Disney.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Are you saying that marketing alone wont sustain a business long term?!!?

Apple's giving it their best shot. Keep waiting for that to catch up to them.

Especially when that marketing mostly focuses on your hotels. This is the most common ad I've seen on TV for a while now and it's all fluff.

Out of curiosity I clicked on over to the WDW website. Was greeted immediately by the Awaken summer hotel savings. Click the link and you'll find this:

Fine print:

That's 20-30% off rooms at just about every resort, during SUMMER. Ya even get an Awaken Summer Magic Band!

Safe to say the bean counters realize all of a sudden they've got a problem.

EDIT: Here's the link as well. https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/special-offers/awaken-summer-room-offer/

 

[mickeyfan5534]

It doesn't pain me as a Disney fan as much as it pains me as a hospitality student to see how horribly managed what is supposed to be the industry leader really is managed. The moment someone with hospitality experience and even maybe without plans of moving up the corporate ladder gets put in charge, I'm positive we'll see the difference.

 

[ford91exploder]

Apple's giving it their best shot. Keep waiting for that to catch up to them.



Out of curiosity I clicked on over to the WDW website. Was greeted immediately by the Awaken summer hotel savings. Click the link and you'll find this:

View attachment 142743

Fine print:
View attachment 142744


That's 20-30% off rooms at just about every resort, during SUMMER. Ya even get an Awaken Summer Magic Band!

Safe to say the bean counters realize all of a sudden they've got a problem.

Yup they realize they have a problem but they will try and 'solve' the problem with that patented Disney unethical but legal business practice handbook.

Just TRY to get one of those special discounted rates, You will find they are 'sold out' but Disney will be happy to accomodate you in a rack rate room. This is an area an enterprising State Attorneys General(s) could have a lot of fun prosecuting Disney for it's 'Bait and Switch' advertising.

 

[BernardandBianca]

I've gotta ask, what did you do in Antarctica? It just doesn't jump to me as a vacation destination.

Hard to believe, but I would put it as one of my top five vacations, and I've been around. The scenery is so out-of-this-world fantastic that I would spend hours just standing on the deck viewing it as we cruised past. (The only way to get there for normal people is by cruise ship.) Landed half a dozen times, and tramped through snow avoiding penguins sliding around you. Sat on a rock viewing other penguins, and they would come right up to you and stare at you. Watched as just-hatched birds had their mothers fighting off other birds looking for an easy meal. Went swimming in a hot spring. Enjoyed cruising in zodiacs avoiding icebergs, and seeing their brilliant (blue) colors. Looking at seals "sunning" themselves on icebergs. It was just a very unique trip. (And I apologize for expanding this off-topic, but I wanted to answer the question.)

 

[gmajew]

Especially when that marketing mostly focuses on your hotels. This is the most common ad I've seen on TV for a while now and it's all fluff.

Why I am spending a day at universal this trip again as nothing new is going to be ready when I go in a month. So might as well go to a park that I don't go to every year and see thing that are new to me.

 

[ford91exploder]

Why I am spending a day at universal this trip again as nothing new is going to be ready when I go in a month. So might as well go to a park that I don't go to every year and see thing that are new to me.

Budget more than one day, You could spend a day in Diagon alley alone.

 

[Mike S]

Why I am spending a day at universal this trip again as nothing new is going to be ready when I go in a month. So might as well go to a park that I don't go to every year and see thing that are new to me.

They sure know how to get you to want to visit don't they?

Budget more than one day, You could spend a day in Diagon alley alone.

I've spent most of a weekend there before Gringotts was even open.

 

[gmajew]

Budget more than one day, You could spend a day in Diagon alley alone.

Lol it is always case need more time

 

[Filby61]

...WDW "leadership" seems to have virtually no institutional memory. They often continue to make mistep after mistep never learning a lesson the first time around. People in lower and middle management roles move around so frequently there seems to be no collective memory on what works and what doesn't. There are times it seems like (and cast member friends have told me) the company acts like it hasn't operated theme parks for the past 60 years...

For 40 years or so DL and WDW perfected the art (admittedly there were stumbles along the way) of successfully and profitably operating theme parks, and in the recent decades it seems they go out of their way to forget or disregard everything they learned along the way.

Yep. Disney literally "wrote the book" on theme parks -- design, ops, customer service, employee training, the works. After 1985 they began to pull out the pages, chapter by chapter, and throw them away.

They had to: the book was the product of three decades of the values and mindset of Walt-era management culture. The accumulated wisdom of a management team that had worked its way up the ranks, and in many cases had worked under Walt.

The degree of internal dismissiveness that Disney's post-Eiger management culture has for pre-Eiger Disney must be experience to be believed. It is ingrained in the DNA of Disney management. "Ignoring the book" is a badge of membership in the revolving-door management culture of today's Disney, while citing "how it was done back in the day" is a good way to get sidelined, marginalized, or dropped out of the back door.

Meanwhile, of course, Disney has no problem riding the coattails of those same Walt-era values, and selling them as a product to the public.

 

[Nubs70]

Yep. Disney literally "wrote the book" on theme parks -- design, ops, customer service, employee training, the works. After 1985 they began to pull out the pages, chapter by chapter, and throw them away.

They had to: the book was the product of three decades of the values and mindset of Walt-era management culture.

The degree of internal dismissiveness that Disney's post-Eiger management culture has for pre-Eiger Disney must be experience to be believed. It is ingrained in the DNA of Disney management. Ignoring the book is a badge of membership in Disney's revolving-door management culture, while citing "how it was done back in the day" is a good way to get sidelined, marginalized, or dropped out of the back door.

Meanwhile, of course, they have no problem selling those same Walt-era values as a product to the public.

They have become Lean managers. Provide just enough quality to keep the people spending money. Anything effort above the minimum is waste and must be eliminated with extreme prejudice.

 

[brb1006]

Especially when that marketing mostly focuses on your hotels. This is the most common ad I've seen on TV for a while now and it's all fluff.

I miss how Walt Disney World used to make good and fun commercials like they did back in the 80's until the early 2000's (Mainly in 2005 during Disneyland 50th Anniversary).

Such as this commercial for Epcot

 

[Donald Razorduck]

Apple's giving it their best shot. Keep waiting for that to catch up to them.



Out of curiosity I clicked on over to the WDW website. Was greeted immediately by the Awaken summer hotel savings. Click the link and you'll find this:

View attachment 142743

Fine print:
View attachment 142744

That's 20-30% off rooms at just about every resort, during SUMMER. Ya even get an Awaken Summer Magic Band!

Safe to say the bean counters realize all of a sudden they've got a problem.

EDIT: Here's the link as well. https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/special-offers/awaken-summer-room-offer/

Apple is losing market share to Android and smart phone sales are down. Foxconn bought Sharp giving them better pricing power over manufacturing and Apple's stock had been a dog lately.

 

[Cesar R M]

I didn't think the monorails were automated yet

I actually wonder. How long since they announced they were going to get automated? was that pulled off? delayed? cost scissored? still under development?

Last my bothan spies heard (before they took off to the beach to kick back and earn 30%) some peopel within the mouse were expecting a serious attendance bump at Epcot. At least double digits.

And no, they wont get WWOHP crowds.... thats an entirely different ballgame.

Only for the frozen attraction?or is that including the Soarin' new film and theater?

 

[Cesar R M]

Like others this post belongs here as good as anywhere.

In the UK, Disney are now advertising on TV with a single joint DLP / WDW commercial. Bizzare. A mix of buildings not in WDW (Paris ToT for example) and things (Epcot) that are not available at DLP.

Not to mention obviously cannibalising ones potential guests for the others.

They used to advertise separately.

So, they are making more and more generic things, intermixing everything into a huge "Disney Parks" umbrella?
I actually wonder if this is to prevent people from jumping park to park? like claiming every park has the same "feeling" or "offers" and there is not need for euro visitors to go to WDW or WDW visitors to go to Disneyland.