A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

[the.dreamfinder]

I never thought I would say the word "synergy" so much in my career
https://twitter.com/tashasounart/status/785895809577476096

This is from a Creative Director at Pixar's theme park division.

 

[gmajew]

@Lee been gone a long time to....

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Basing a whole land on a IP(unlike NoS)
The enormous footprint dwarfing all other lands and just for one franchise

The thing is that SWL isn't much bigger than NoS.

NoS seems much smaller because most people forget about the massive show buildings that are mostly outside the berm. SWL's 2 huge buildings are taking up a good sized portion of what is under construction along with another significant piece being the RoA and the new berm. Also in the dirt now is the space soon to be used for the icy part of Fantasyland. Big rides require big show buildings.

The actual walkable parts of SWL won't be much different than DL's NoS.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

The thing is that SWL isn't much bigger than NoS.

NoS seems much smaller because most people forget about the massive show buildings that are mostly outside the berm. SWL's 2 huge buildings are taking up a good sized portion of what is under construction along with another significant piece being the RoA and the new berm. Also in the dirt now is the space soon to be used for the icy part of Fantasyland. Big rides require big show buildings.

The actual walkable parts of SWL won't be much different than DL's NoS.

Now now, you can't be bringing in reality here. Doesn't fit with the naysayers agenda, ya know.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

For me, it feels incredibly lazy to just clone the land with no differences. Iger said on stage, "We're not just building one, we're building two!" like it was a good thing. If they're creating a new planet in the first place, why not make different planets and themes for them? Have the same attractions for all I care, just make the lands different. Their new big flagship IP deserves more.

Different planets. Good idea. Rest assured, this is something that is still on the table for future growth. The first pass at SWL would've painted them into a corner. That's just one of the reasons why to be thankful option 1 didn't come to pass.

If SWL wasn't being cloned to Orlando, there's a good chance WDW wouldn't be getting anything near this quality.

All Disney Parks fans would love to have each park around the world filled with unique experiences; but, that only works when each park upholds the same quality standards. Just use something like Pirates as an example - you could end up with Paris or Shanghai... or the Cliff Notes version of Orlando's. Of course, Park fans often want things both ways... clone a Tower poorly and then try and change it poorly and you still end up with not making everyone (er, anyone) happy. (Bad Tower becoming Bad Powerplant/Warehouse/Generator/Sam's Club/Chuck-E-Cheese is just bad all the way around).

Buyer beware.

 

[The_Jobu]

Now now, you can't be bringing in reality here. Doesn't fit with the naysayers agenda, ya know.

Far be it for me to attempt to cut the Gordian knot of an endless forum debate, but reality is quite relative when the crux of this entire argument is "are you a Star Wars mark?".

If the answer is yes, then chances are you're looking forward to the new land and will seek out similar opinions to validate your opinion and its entry into the parks. You simply can not comprehend why others aren't as welcoming and no reasonable arguments will sway you.

If the answer is no, then chances are you're looking at the new land with dismissive eye-roll that it is a tacky populist insertion into a once cohesive legacy of a cherished land. No reasonable argument will sway you that it has merit as more than a corporate agenda item.

But this is a fool's errand and I will not accomplish anything with my thoughts, it's there are times when I am overwhelmed by transparent obtuseness and feel the need to vent.

Please carry on with your debates, perhaps this will be the day they are resolved.

 

[asianway]

Different planets. Good idea. Rest assured, this is something that is still on the table for future growth. The first pass at SWL would've painted them into a corner. That's just one of the reasons why to be thankful option 1 didn't come to pass.

If SWL wasn't being cloned to Orlando, there's a good chance WDW wouldn't be getting anything near this quality.

All Disney Parks fans would love to have each park around the world filled with unique experiences; but, that only works when each park upholds the same quality standards. Just use something like Pirates as an example - you could end up with Paris or Shanghai... or the Cliff Notes version of Orlando's. Of course, Park fans often want things both ways... clone a Tower poorly and then try and change it poorly and you still end up with not making everyone (er, anyone) happy. (Bad Tower becoming Bad Powerplant/Warehouse/Generator/Sam's Club/Chuck-E-Cheese is just bad all the way around).

Buyer beware.

Option 1 being sub lagoon, right?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Far be it for me to attempt to cut the Gordian knot of an endless forum debate, but reality is quite relative when the crux of this entire argument is "are you a Star Wars mark?".

If the answer is yes, then chances are you're looking forward to the new land and will seek out similar opinions to validate your opinion and its entry into the parks. You simply can not comprehend why others aren't as welcoming and no reasonable arguments will sway you.

If the answer is no, then chances are you're looking at the new land with dismissive eye-roll that it is a tacky populist insertion into a once cohesive legacy of a cherished land. No reasonable argument will sway you that it has merit as more than a corporate agenda item.

But this is a fool's errand and I will not accomplish anything with my thoughts, it's there are times when I am overwhelmed by transparent obtuseness and feel the need to vent.

Please carry on with your debates, perhaps this will be the day they are resolved.

I guess the thing is this; it shouldn't matter if you are a SW fan or not. The new area will be extremely immersive with 2 E ticket attractions, in addition to dining and shopping. Just like all of the complaints with Pandora and the movie over at AK. It doesn't matter what happens with any new movie or if people even care about the original movie. The land will stand on it's own as an immersive experience.

People have been complaining that DL hasn't had a new E ticket in years. Now, it's getting 2 and people are doing nothing but complaining that it isn't what THEY want. You'll never satisfy everyone, but my bet is that the vast majority of visitors to the new SWL will love it. I know that we will.

 

[The_Jobu]

I guess the thing is this; it shouldn't matter if you are a SW fan or not.

"Should" is a tricky word my friend. It does indeed matter to some, in many cases very much so, if the IP is enjoyed. People have also derided the addition of Pandora to AK, it is by no means universally accepted. I suspect that some will never welcome the idea of entire lands within Disney devoted to non-Disney franchises, regardless of attractions.

Though I do think an argument built upon "isn't it good that the park is getting two new E-tickets?" has more merit than "Star Wars fits in Disneyland/No it doesn't". I think the debate would be entirely different if they were building two SW e-tickets into Tomorrowland, for example. It's the whole "land" thing that really boils some people's potatoes.

 

[njDizFan]

Well, let me take them one at a time:
It's Walt's original park - so??? He hasn't been involved in the park for 50 years and it was NEVER supposed to be a museum.
Basing a whole land on a IP(unlike NoS) - again - so??? exactly why is that a bad thing when you have what will be 9 movies and an entire galaxy of different places to choose from.
The enormous footprint dwarfing all other lands and just for one franchise - again - so what??? Why is that a bad thing when there can be such an immersive experience for everyone - and not just SW fans.
truncating the RoA - ok, i'll give you this one. Wish they could have added it without changing it, but, it is what it is
sightlight and transition issues possible - well, you have those all over the place in both parks already - everyone needs to get over that part.
wasted opportunity that could be a cornerstone for a 3rd gate - everyone thinks that the next gate will be marvel based
cloning an attraction that does not fit the needs of both coasts - Disney has been doing this for decades. Why is that an issue all of a sudden?
It does not feel distinctly Disney(considering it is the original park) - that's a feeling only. It is not a museum. And what exactly does that mean? Please don't try to go into Disney's original IP, because most of it was NOT original to Disney. He took books and stories and rewrote them. Well, they are doing pretty much the same with SWL.

I'm not here to defend any of these positions, I'm just letting you know what are some of the main objections.

Personally I don't think it's a great fit, mostly based on size and thematic integrity with the rest of the park.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

"Should" is a tricky word my friend. It does indeed matter to some, in many cases very much so, if the IP is enjoyed. People have also derided the addition of Pandora to AK, it is by no means universally accepted. I suspect that some will never welcome the idea of entire lands within Disney devoted to non-Disney franchises, regardless of attractions.

Though I do think an argument built upon "isn't it good that the park is getting two new E-tickets?" has more merit than "Star Wars fits in Disneyland/No it doesn't". I think the debate would be entirely different if they were building two SW e-tickets into Tomorrowland, for example. It's the whole "land" thing that really boils some people's potatoes.

And what they all need to remember - IT'S JUST A THEME PARK FOR GOODNESS SAKE.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I'm not here to defend any of these positions, I'm just letting you know what are some of the main objections.

Personally I don't think it's a great fit, mostly based on size and thematic integrity with the rest of the park.

Except that you say that without even seeing any of it in person. You have no idea how well it will fit in and what it will look like until they are done. That is part of my issue with the naysayers. It may all fit in just fine.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Now now, you can't be bringing in reality here. Doesn't fit with the naysayers agenda, ya know.

You're missing a big part of the point.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

You're missing a big part of the point.

Not at all. Your point is you don't like it, and you think it doesn't fit. I think that DL was never meant to be a museum and that adding extremely immersive experiences is what Disney is all about. It's already been stated that this is actually not much bigger than NOS in terms of space utilized. The exterior of the show buildings will be completely themed and might actually blend in quite will in the sight lines. Until they are finished, you really don't know how badly or how well it ends up.

 

[AEfx]

For me, it feels incredibly lazy to just clone the land with no differences. Iger said on stage, "We're not just building one, we're building two!" like it was a good thing. If they're creating a new planet in the first place, why not make different planets and themes for them? Have the same attractions for all I care, just make the lands different. Their new big flagship IP deserves more.

Yes, for the vast majority of the public, nearly identical lands *is* a good thing. A great thing even. An *expected* thing.

The vast majority of guests at WDW are never going to experience Disneyland. Star Wars specifically is going to attract an amount of guests heretofore unseen in theme park demand, even beyond Potter.

For marketing and customer satisfaction, it is imperative that both resorts be able to offer the "Star Wars experience" in the same way. No one wants to be told "that's at the other park, 3,000 miles away" when it comes to Star Wars. And that includes this new planet, which we have been led to believe will play some part in the Star Wars universe in the future (film or otherwise).

While it seems "easy" to just come up with another new planet for the opposite coast, clearly the Lucasfilm story department has a hand in this and there is a lot more planned for the location to be relevant in the future. Clearly there is a greater purpose to it beyond what we know now, and the only ones who would care about them being different for the "principle" of the thing are those obsessive crazies like us on a message board.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Not at all. Your point is you don't like it, and you think it doesn't fit. I think that DL was never meant to be a museum and that adding extremely immersive experiences is what Disney is all about. It's already been stated that this is actually not much bigger than NOS in terms of space utilized. The exterior of the show buildings will be completely themed and might actually blend in quite will in the sight lines. Until they are finished, you really don't know how badly or how well it ends up.

Good lord...

I wasn't even referring to space, but instead of asking what exactly I was referring to, you jumped to conclusions.

This conversation will be pointless, I can see. Believe what you want.

 

[DinoInstitute]

Your point is you don't like it, and you think it doesn't fit.

Your point is that you do like it and you do think it fits. I'm having trouble understanding what the difference is as far as arguments go.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Good lord...

I wasn't even referring to space, but instead of asking what exactly I was referring to, you jumped to conclusions.

This conversation will be pointless, I can see. Believe what you want.

Yes it is pointless because of your narrow-minded views of what DL should be. So enlighten me - what was your point that you were referring to, and why didn't you state it in your reply? I'm all for discussion on the topic, even though I understand that we will forever agree to disagree on this subject.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Your point is that you do like it and you do think it fits. I'm having trouble understanding what the difference is as far as arguments go.

The difference is that I'm OK with what Disney is doing - as long as it's done right. His opinion - as I understand it - is that no matter what it turns out to be, it will be wrong.