A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

[truecoat]

WOW...This just in...

According to Deadline Hollywood, Guy Ritchie is in talks to direct a live-action Aladdin...

If he ends up directing this, it won't be mistaken for the animated cartoon. Ritchie's style is quick cuts, close ups, lots of violence and guns galore.

NSFW if you watch...

 

[LuvtheGoof]

??? Now I'm confused.

What was the point of asking for the opinions in the first place?

I was asking why someone thought that certain lands were OK in DL, but not SWL. Everyone stated that SWL doesn't belong, but they can't seem to state why Critter Country, or New Orleans Square, etc. does belong.

 

[Jon81uk]

Glad to hear you had a good experience. It seems that there was a great variation in customer service due to the storm. Some of it seems to be based on the resort you were staying at. There also seemed to be a lack of overall communication to guests overall. With the MDE app and the fact that Disney now has email/cell phone information for nearly every visitor it seems like information could have been communicated in a much better manner.

It does sound like cast members overall did a great job with what they were given. The worst black eye for Disney on this was the greedy attempt at making money off of storm ration boxed lunches that should have been given away or sold for $5, not $13. Greedy, tacky, and disgraceful. Even the pixie dust snorters on other sites were disgusted with that one. I wish bigger media outlets had picked up on it, because Disney deserves every bit of public shame they can get. I also wonder how far up the chain the decision was made to sell at that price. Head of food and beverage? George himself? Is the hurricane plan to just continue selling food at full retail? This is the sort of thing that should result in firings for terrible judgment, but we all know that will never happen.

There was no "social media" in 2004 during the last major hurricanes when WDW was closed, but there was still a very active community here and on other sites. From my recollection, the consensus seemed to be that WDW's response 12 years ago was better. Of course, that was pre-Iger, and long before the "old timer" executives retired or were forced out of the company. There has certainly been a major loss of institutional memory since then, and George K. and his ilk didn't seem as equipped to handle things.

There were notifications when opening MDE with good information on Thursday evening and Friday, including the parks closure, MNSSHP cancellations, and Disney Springs re-opening.

I did think, I'm not paying $12.99 for a lunchbox (that didn't even include water!) but I spent (well DDP credit) the same on a burger instead, I guess I was fortunate to be in a proper internal corridor hotel that meant we could access quick service food all the time. But yes, I think at other resorts where you were truly confined to your room overnight, offering a free breakfast box would have been a nice gesture. Even if it was just muffin, fruit, cereal, water and extra coffee supplies for the in-room machine. Then offering a low-cost (under $10 including water) lunch box would have been good service.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I was asking why someone thought that certain lands were OK in DL, but not SWL. Everyone stated that SWL doesn't belong, but they can't seem to state why Critter Country, or New Orleans Square, etc. does belong.

If you read the thread, plus others in the DL forum, you will see the arguements for what you're asking.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

If you read the thread, plus others in the DL forum, you will see the arguements for what you're asking.

OK, then we can drop it here.

 

[COProgressFan]

There were notifications when opening MDE with good information on Thursday evening and Friday, including the parks closure, MNSSHP cancellations, and Disney Springs re-opening.

I did think, I'm not paying $12.99 for a lunchbox (that didn't even include water!) but I spent (well DDP credit) the same on a burger instead, I guess I was fortunate to be in a proper internal corridor hotel that meant we could access quick service food all the time. But yes, I think at other resorts where you were truly confined to your room overnight, offering a free breakfast box would have been a nice gesture. Even if it was just muffin, fruit, cereal, water and extra coffee supplies for the in-room machine. Then offering a low-cost (under $10 including water) lunch box would have been good service.

Exactly. I really don't even have a problem with them selling a breakfast or lunch box. But given the circumstances, the quality is obviously going to be subpar, and as a common courtesy, since guests were stranded, they could offer it at cost. A few dollars at most. To sell chips, some deli meat on old bread and bruised fruit expecting a 500% markup is disgusting. For folks in resorts where they couldn't access food without going outside their room, this was potentially the only option they had for an entire 24 hour period, since at that point it was expected that they'd be stranded in their rooms.

Yet there were reports that arcades were set on free play, and meals were 50% on Friday. This was the right thing to do. A lot of inconsistency in their decisions on how to handle this.

If we do a future trip during hurricane season, I will seriously consider choosing a resort with internal hallways with access to food and the lobby. It's just and easier situation all around.

 

[Jon81uk]

If we do a future trip during hurricane season, I will seriously consider choosing a resort with internal hallways with access to food and the lobby. It's just and easier situation all around.

My only other thought on this, are the only places where you would have full access to the main facilites, Wilderness Lodge, Animal Kingdom Lodge and Tower rooms at Contempory?

I would assume Contempory garden wing and even Poly and GF guests would get cut off from restaurants?

 

[lazyboy97o]

The original lands of Disneyland were built to tell a story. This alone differed them from the current mindset which has dominated Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, the franchise model where themed entertainment is reduced to an expensive form of advertising.

Star Wars Land is the first land conceived and pushed forward specifically because it was demanded by third-party financial analysts.

Star Wars Land is also trying to achieve cost savings by being designed once and built twice in a way never before done. This means the scale is appropriate for Disney's Hollywood Studios but completely out of line with the rest of Disneyland.

Last is the millennia old fallacy that one's legacy is heightened by altering and removing the physical works of your predecessors.

 

[COProgressFan]

My only other thought on this, are the only places where you would have full access to the main facilites, Wilderness Lodge, Animal Kingdom Lodge and Tower rooms at Contempory?

I would assume Contempory garden wing and even Poly and GF guests would get cut off from restaurants?

There's also tower concierge rooms at GF, rooms at Yacht and Beach (though not DVC), and some (but not all) rooms at Boardwalk that would still have access to lobby areas.

 

[asianway]

I was asking why someone thought that certain lands were OK in DL, but not SWL. Everyone stated that SWL doesn't belong, but they can't seem to state why Critter Country, or New Orleans Square, etc. does belong.

They are romanticized versions of places that never existed except as an amalgam in our own minds.

SWL is based on the movies, of which we have a ton of preconceived notions/expectations. Weve seen an Imperial base - now we will be stepping into it.

Most of the lands in TDS follow the former, and most would agree its the most cohesive non-castle park out there(now anyway).

The transition from the existing lands to, for lack of a better word, a "real" place will be quite abrupt. I am anxious to see what they do with the transitions.

While I am a HUGE Star Wars fan, I personally think SWL will be too much of the same, like putting too much garlic in the casserole.

I am not against removing things, the changes and upgrades to ROA are probably the best thing about the entire project in my mind. They were long overdue for love.

 

[SorcererMC]

Having also just returned from a trip, staying at Wilderness Lodge, where the internal corridor access to restaurants & lobby probably made a big difference, I found Friday was fine, there was plenty of voicemail messages with updates, characters and kids activities in the lobby and as soon as the curfew was lifted the lifegaurds got the pool ready again and it opened shortly after 5pm. We also found the communication about Disney Springs opening good and we got a bus there just before 6:30 with no issues. We then queued 40 minutes for Blaze Pizza.
However the communication on Thursday was awful. We found out that MNSSHP was cancelled, but we headed to Epcot for out lunch reservation as planned (after spending a long time queing at reception to sort an extra night accommodation due to flight being moved). On arriving at Epcot it was the bus driver who told us the park was closing at 5pm.

Then when we got back to the room there was a voicemail with plenty of details of what was open in the hotel, including the quickservice being open 24hr and Artist Point signature switching to buffet that night only and offering breakfast.

If they had been able to make announcements just a touch earlier Thursday then it would have been nice, but overall my experience was good. .

I wasn't there but that sounds similar to what I've been seeing, and communications were vague and hit-or-miss. @COProgressFan has covered it re: mixed response from hotels so I won't elaborate. Waiting past Thursday am means that it was too late to prep for the storm for most guests who hadn't already, hence the long lines and runs on whatever was available. Way too much chaos/confusion for a lot of guests IMO, that could have been (somewhat) avoided. Very lucky that Hurricane Matthew didn't live up to its potential, eg extended power outages and other disruptions. Thanks for chiming in with your experience, glad it was good overall for you

 

[njDizFan]

OK, so for all of you DL fanatics, please explain exactly WHY SWL does not belong. And no stupid platitudes of - if I have to ask I just don't get it. I do get it, and have been going to Disney parks a lot longer than most people here. If SWL doesn't belong, then why does Tomorrowland? Why does Critter Country? Why does New Orleans Square?

Not to go too much off on a tangent. Since there is a whole thread based entirely around this question and @lazyboy already posted quite a succinct post in regards to your inquiry I will only give you some bulletpoints on the issue(right or wrong)

It's Walt's original park
Basing a whole land on a IP(unlike NoS)
The enormous footprint dwarfing all other lands and just for one franchise
truncating the RoA
sightlight and transition issues possible
wasted opportunity that could be a cornerstone for a 3rd gate
cloning an attraction that does not fit the needs of both coasts
It does not feel distinctly Disney(considering it is the original park)

There are many many other possible issues but you can start there

 

[LuvtheGoof]

They are romanticized versions of places that never existed except as an amalgam in our own minds.

SWL is based on the movies, of which we have a ton of preconceived notions/expectations. Weve seen an Imperial base - now we will be stepping into it.

Lot's of original attractions were based on movies. Disney has already stated that SWL will NOT include ANY already seen places, but will be a completely new planet and experience. Just like a lot of original attractions.

Most of the lands in TDS follow the former, and most would agree its the most cohesive non-castle park out there(now anyway).

The transition from the existing lands to, for lack of a better word, a "real" place will be quite abrupt. I am anxious to see what they do with the transitions.

While I am a HUGE Star Wars fan, I personally think SWL will be too much of the same, like putting too much garlic in the casserole.

I am not against removing things, the changes and upgrades to ROA are probably the best thing about the entire project in my mind. They were long overdue for love.

We have no idea about any "abrupt" transitions, since we don't know what they will look like as of yet, but to say that they don't already exist is looking through rose colored glasses. Plenty of abrupt transitions already exist in both DL and WDW between the lands.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Not to go too much off on a tangent. Since there is a whole thread based entirely around this question and @lazyboy already posted quite a succinct post in regards to your inquiry I will only give you some bulletpoints on the issue(right or wrong)

It's Walt's original park
Basing a whole land on a IP(unlike NoS)
The enormous footprint dwarfing all other lands and just for one franchise
truncating the RoA
sightlight and transition issues possible
wasted opportunity that could be a cornerstone for a 3rd gate
cloning an attraction that does not fit the needs of both coasts
It does not feel distinctly Disney(considering it is the original park)

There are many many other possible issues but you can start there

Well, let me take them one at a time:
It's Walt's original park - so??? He hasn't been involved in the park for 50 years and it was NEVER supposed to be a museum.
Basing a whole land on a IP(unlike NoS) - again - so??? exactly why is that a bad thing when you have what will be 9 movies and an entire galaxy of different places to choose from.
The enormous footprint dwarfing all other lands and just for one franchise - again - so what??? Why is that a bad thing when there can be such an immersive experience for everyone - and not just SW fans.
truncating the RoA - ok, i'll give you this one. Wish they could have added it without changing it, but, it is what it is
sightlight and transition issues possible - well, you have those all over the place in both parks already - everyone needs to get over that part.
wasted opportunity that could be a cornerstone for a 3rd gate - everyone thinks that the next gate will be marvel based
cloning an attraction that does not fit the needs of both coasts - Disney has been doing this for decades. Why is that an issue all of a sudden?
It does not feel distinctly Disney(considering it is the original park) - that's a feeling only. It is not a museum. And what exactly does that mean? Please don't try to go into Disney's original IP, because most of it was NOT original to Disney. He took books and stories and rewrote them. Well, they are doing pretty much the same with SWL.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

The original lands of Disneyland were built to tell a story. This alone differed them from the current mindset which has dominated Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, the franchise model where themed entertainment is reduced to an expensive form of advertising.

I want to clear up a few things about this (not picking on you, just using this to address some SW related things):

The original lands did tell a story of America's and Walt's past and its future and the imagination that allowed this country to move forward. While the argument could be made about SWL tying into the imagination that came out of this progress, there is no doubt that there are very, very few parties involved in SWL's development that in an ideal world would've placed SWL within DL proper. The need to put it there was born out of a very much arguable necessity.

Disneyland was always a vehicle to drive advertising for both Disney's brands and its sponsors. It's been that way from it's very inception. Where else do you think the theme park industry learned this?

Star Wars Land is the first land conceived and pushed forward specifically because it was demanded by third-party financial analysts.

This is not the correct way to think of it. Since Lucas and Eisner collaborated back in the 80's (and even before then as the demand for SW in Disney can be traced back to 1977), more Star Wars in Disney has always been what Guests have demanded. More SW would've come sooner had the Eisner/Lucas relationship not soured. While Iger would like to pat himself on the back about planting the seed of the sale in George's head, the truth is that Lucasfilm>Disney was something that was always stewing as George thought about retirement. I first heard of this during the filming of Episode III, so it was at least a "spark" of imagination all the way back in 2003-4. As soon as talks of the merger began, the wheels of developing more SW for the Parks began in earnest. It was only a question of when and where it would come and in what form.

Star Wars Land is also trying to achieve cost savings by being designed once and built twice in a way never before done. This means the scale is appropriate for Disney's Hollywood Studios but completely out of line with the rest of Disneyland.

Simply false. SWL from the ground up was always a DL project, simply because nobody wanted to wait for Orlando. In all three forms of its development, it was first and foremost designed to fit into DL and no real concessions were made to fit it in Florida (other than the 3rd attraction getting yanked because TDO is too cheap to pay for it). The first form for SWL was going to land right on top of a good portion of Tomorrowland and it was going to be a "Greatest Hits" tour of the SW galaxy. Nobody wanted this option. The 2nd version was the Toontown overlay and it was really close to being approved when the 3rd more elaborate option was finally settled on for it to reside where it is currently. When this move took place, it was the needs of Disneyland that took the only priority. Everything about this new space had to accommodate it's placement within DL. The very planet that this spaceport occupies is engineered to fit behind Rivers of America and blend in with Thunder's spires. SWL's placement in the swamps of DHS weren't even locked down until well after DL was already in motion. So, in essence, SWL's needs for Orlando weren't really factored into the design. Actually, one of the reasons I've heard with move from Echo Lake to the backlot were to make DL's design better fit into DHS as it's easier to hide the massive show buildings from the park entrance. Plus, this approach is ultimately cheaper/faster as getting SWL online won't require a massive parking project to be completed.

Last is the millennia old fallacy that one's legacy is heightened by altering and removing the physical works of your predecessors.

This last statement is very debatable. One does like to think of the Weatherman as being vain enough to want to plant the flag on the pinnacle of the SW mountain and lay claim that he delivered the nerds thorough the desert of Tatooine and reached the promised land of finally having more SW in the Parks. But, I think history will prove that his subordinates may have under minded his aspirations as best they could. I've mentioned time and again that most everyone involved in this project knew that putting SW into DL wasn't the right place to do it. It would've been far better suited as an anchor for the 3rd gate (I still think it will ultimately reside there as well). Unfortunately, waiting until that happens simply wasn't possible. Bob wants it done and as I've mentioned, the Guests have long wanted it. If you are wondering why DCA wasn't an option for SW to land there - it potentially could have; but, never was in serious discussion because if SW went to DCA, then Marvel would've come to DL and that would've been an even worse fit. So, faced with choices of making the square peg of SW fit in the round Death Star hole of DL - the Imagineers started to try to steer the project somewhere it would've had the least amount of impact... outside the berm.

So, with everything that could've gone wrong with this bitter pill. Where SWL ended up in DL is going to be done in the least impactful way. It doesn't change the fact that it didn't belong there to begin with and we are losing some of the length and isolation of the RoA; but, it does have a great number of positive impacts that it's opening will bring to the table:

- It will bring a new more dynamic backdrop to the RoA path with the waterfalls and new village.
- It will address the huge crowd control nightmare of the bottleneck the RoA created in trying to get people in and out of New Orleans Square and Critter Country.
- It is bringing a new Fantasmic to the table (I "think" this is going to be a great thing based on what I've been told; but, then again... it's a big risk to change something a great as DL's F!).
- It's bringing 2 E-tickets to DL and one of them should knock the socks off of even the most jaded fan (they both should, but, Alcatraz is going to be so good).
- It's adding a bunch of real estate for more guests to spread out in in a very Potter-esque detailed setting that will be great to spend hours in.
- The sharing of this land with WDW is going to force TDO's miserly ways of getting 2 E's and a land that they normally wouldn't have budgeted this much extravagance for.

and most importantly...

- The completion of this land and the assured success will greatly expedite Anaheim's future expansion towards a 3rd gate. Between it, Marvel, and the Fantasyland project - they will have mostly filled all of the existing property.

If you build it, they will come... at lightspeed.

Oh... and welcome back Spirit!

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I want to clear up a few things about this (not picking on you, just using this to address some SW related things):

The original lands did tell a story of America's and Walt's past and its future and the imagination that allowed this country to move forward. While the argument could be made about SWL tying into the imagination that came out of this progress, there is no doubt that there are very, very few parties involved in SWL's development that in an ideal world would've placed SWL within DL proper. The need to put it there was born out of a very much arguable necessity.

Disneyland was always a vehicle to drive advertising for both Disney's brands and its sponsors. It's been that way from it's very inception. Where else do you think the theme park industry learned this?



This is not the correct way to think of it. Since Lucas and Eisner collaborated back in the 80's (and even before then as the demand for SW in Disney can be traced back to 1977), more Star Wars in Disney has always been what Guests have demanded. More SW would've come sooner had the Eisner/Lucas relationship not soured. While Iger would like to pat himself on the back about planting the seed of the sale in George's head, the truth is that Lucasfilm>Disney was something that was always stewing as George thought about retirement. I first heard of this during the filming of Episode III, so it was at least a "spark" of imagination all the way back in 2003-4. As soon as talks of the merger began, the wheels of developing more SW for the Parks began in earnest. It was only a question of when and where it would come and in what form.



Simply false. SWL from the ground up was always a DL project, simply because nobody wanted to wait for Orlando. In all three forms of its development, it was first and foremost designed to fit into DL and no real concessions were made to fit it in Florida (other than the 3rd attraction getting yanked because TDO is too cheap to pay for it). The first form for SWL was going to land right on top of a good portion of Tomorrowland and it was going to be a "Greatest Hits" tour of the SW galaxy. Nobody wanted this option. The 2nd version was the Toontown overlay and it was really close to being approved when the 3rd more elaborate option was finally settled on for it to reside where it is currently. When this move took place, it was the needs of Disneyland that took the only priority. Everything about this new space had to accommodate it's placement within DL. The very planet that this spaceport occupies is engineered to fit behind Rivers of America and blend in with Thunder's spires. SWL's placement in the swamps of DHS weren't even locked down until well after DL was already in motion. So, in essence, SWL's needs for Orlando weren't really factored into the design. Actually, one of the reasons I've heard with move from Echo Lake to the backlot were to make DL's design better fit into DHS as it's easier to hide the massive show buildings from the park entrance. Plus, this approach is ultimately cheaper/faster as getting SWL online won't require a massive parking project to be completed.



This last statement is very debatable. One does like to think of the Weatherman as being vain enough to want to plant the flag on the pinnacle of the SW mountain and lay claim that he delivered the nerds thorough the desert of Tatooine and reached the promised land of finally having more SW in the Parks. But, I think history will prove that his subordinates may have under minded his aspirations as best they could. I've mentioned time and again that most everyone involved in this project knew that putting SW into DL wasn't the right place to do it. It would've been far better suited as an anchor for the 3rd gate (I still think it will ultimately reside there as well). Unfortunately, waiting until that happens simply wasn't possible. Bob wants it done and as I've mentioned, the Guests have long wanted it. If you are wondering why DCA wasn't an option for SW to land there - it potentially could have; but, never was in serious discussion because if SW went to DCA, then Marvel would've come to DL and that would've been an even worse fit. So, faced with choices of making the square peg of SW fit in the round Death Star hole of DL - the Imagineers started to try to steer the project somewhere it would've had the least amount of impact... outside the berm.

So, with everything that could've gone wrong with this bitter pill. Where SWL ended up in DL is going to be done in the least impactful way. It doesn't change the fact that it didn't belong there to begin with and we are losing some of the length and isolation of the RoA; but, it does have a great number of positive impacts that it's opening will bring to the table:

- It will bring a new more dynamic backdrop to the RoA path with the waterfalls and new village.
- It will address the huge crowd control nightmare of the bottleneck the RoA created in trying to get people in and out of New Orleans Square and Critter Country.
- It is bringing a new Fantasmic to the table (I "think" this is going to be a great thing based on what I've been told; but, then again... it's a big risk to change something a great as DL's F!).
- It's bringing 2 E-tickets to DL and one of them should knock the socks off of even the most jaded fan (they both should, but, Alcatraz is going to be so good).
- It's adding a bunch of real estate for more guests to spread out in in a very Potter-esque detailed setting that will be great to spend hours in.
- The sharing of this land with WDW is going to force TDO's miserly ways of getting 2 E's and a land that they normally wouldn't have budgeted this much extravagance for.

and most importantly...

- The completion of this land and the assured success will greatly expedite Anaheim's future expansion towards a 3rd gate. Between it, Marvel, and the Fantasyland project - they will have mostly filled all of the existing property.

If you build it, they will come... at lightspeed.

Well said!

 

[DinoInstitute]

Basing a whole land on a IP(unlike NoS) - again - so??? exactly why is that a bad thing when you have what will be 9 movies and an entire galaxy of different places to choose from.

A whole land based on a single IP in an MK style park just doesn't work for me. In Hollywood Studios it works great, but it is in huge contrast to every other land in DL that are more general themes and stories, with different IPs living within it.

Even if they didn't call the land in DL "Star Wars Land" but rather the name of the planet, that would be a lot better IMO.

wasted opportunity that could be a cornerstone for a 3rd gate - everyone thinks that the next gate will be marvel based

People think that? Isn't DCA getting a Marvel expansion?

Both would have worked well in a sci-fi third gate though.

cloning an attraction that does not fit the needs of both coasts - Disney has been doing this for decades. Why is that an issue all of a sudden?

For me, it feels incredibly lazy to just clone the land with no differences. Iger said on stage, "We're not just building one, we're building two!" like it was a good thing. If they're creating a new planet in the first place, why not make different planets and themes for them? Have the same attractions for all I care, just make the lands different. Their new big flagship IP deserves more.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

A whole land based on a single IP in an MK style park just doesn't work for me. In Hollywood Studios it works great, but it is in huge contrast to every other land in DL that are more general themes and stories, with different IPs living within it.

Even if they didn't call the land in DL "Star Wars Land" but rather the name of the planet, that would be a lot better IMO.
People think that? Isn't DCA getting a Marvel expansion?

Both would have worked well in a sci-fi third gate though.
For me, it feels incredibly lazy to just clone the land with no differences. Iger said on stage, "We're not just building one, we're building two!" like it was a good thing. If they're creating a new planet in the first place, why not make different planets and themes for them? Have the same attractions for all I care, just make the lands different. Their new big flagship IP deserves more.

@JediMasterMatt said it much better than I did.

 

[michmousefan]

Anybody else appreciating Funny or Die's little bit of Epcot satire today?
View media item 1944
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/19...__&_ccid=479e2176-a63f-4445-ae07-4c62e3b1fb82

 

[ford91exploder]

I mostly lurk, read and contemplate the various posts on this forum. I have been thinking about this for awhile and upon mourning the death of the Magic Kingdom's night time parade, I have decided it was time to post. If it had a title, I think it would be Tarnished Pixie Dust,

It is no great news that things change and people change. Depending on their circumstances, what people think they want also changes with the times. With our younger generations being so tuned into social and other media, what they want is very often what they are told they want or see others having or doing.

In the case of Walt Disney World, unless they have been visiting since they were a small child, they have no frame of reference as to its earlier years. In fact, many or most of the earlier years were before they were born. What is familiar to them and what they want is what is current for them. It may be a Marvel character, a popular movie or even an app. on their phone. While I can fault Disney for many things, I can't really fault them for thinking of their future customer base and giving them what they want, These newer "guests" will go to the Disney parks, have a marvelous time and not miss what they don't know or remember.

Over the years the average age of children in the parks has gotten considerably younger than when the parks first opened, so some classic animated characters and princesses will always be there along with as many new princesses possible because they and the meet and greets attract the families with young children.

One point to all this is that, while I and many of you feel that what is a classic ride or attraction should be left alone to be appreciated as a classic, this may not and probably will not happen. The other point is that we older Disney fans remember when there were fewer meet and greets leaving space for more of the smaller rides and attractions, all the restaurants were open (even Aunt Polly's),there were free shows in the Golden Horseshoe, there were no empty show spaces or empty buildings in any of the parks,the second floor of the Imagination Pavilion was a wonderful place, every park had a parade, except during the slow season, there were two parades a night in the Magic Kingdom and you didn't have to pay extra for a party or have a fast pass for a good place to watch a parade, show, or fireworks, Plus, we older fans know we are constantly getting less value for more money. We see the tarnish on the Pixie Dust. The newer, younger guest is aware of none of this.

Yes, there are new attractions to enjoy throughout the parks and it is certainly possible to visit and have a great time, but as much as we would like it, Walt Disney World will never again be as we remember it . We can enjoy it as it is, gripe and grumble, hope and dream about how it may be at some future time or decide the value is not worth the cost and stay away remembering it as it once was. The choice is ours to make.

I think the key issue here is for DECADES Disney created stuff that we did not even KNOW we wanted till we saw it and once seen we could not get enough of it,

Now Disney has more in common with the travelling shows run by the guys in dirty muscle shirts i.e. cheap overlays of whatever is currently popular the only difference it seems is the Disney guys wear $5000 suits instead of the dirty muscle shirts but the outlook and Modus Operendi is the same in both cases.