A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
GoofGoof said:
It would be so much easier if the actual companies just released park attendance numbers in their SEC filings. No beating around the bush. No relying on estimates from a 3rd party. I'm not sure what to make of those numbers anymore. A bunch of people are saying they are unreliable because they are estimates and don't come from the companies directly. Now you are saying they are unreliable because Disney is providing AECOM with false numbers and they are running with them because they are afraid of getting put out of business. It can't be both ways.

What will be interesting will be if next year or the year after USF passes DHS in the TEA report. These reports which we have been hearing are so unreliable will suddenly become "the bible" of theme park numbers for the doom and gloom crowd while the pixie dusters will dismiss them as being inaccurate anyway. It should be fun to see the tables turned. I think it's likely to happen before SW Land opens.
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Agree the whole cloak and dagger aspect to a very basic number is beyond stupid, (how many unique visitors did each park have any given year) heck Airlines report this number all the time sometimes they even report it DAILY.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
ford91exploder said:
Agree the whole cloak and dagger aspect to a very basic number is beyond stupid, (how many unique visitors did each park have any given year) heck Airlines report this number all the time sometimes they even report it DAILY.
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It's not required by law for them to disclose it but they could offer that bit of information as a way for investors to properly gauge the theme park division. They give a higher level up/down for domestic attendance and then usually back that up with something like DLR was up with WDW down slightly, but how much is slightly down? Did attendance drop by 5% or just 50 people a day? I would think investors would want that info, but maybe they have asked for it in the past and were either given the numbers privately or told flat out no.
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
GoofGoof said:
I would think investors would want that info, but maybe they have asked for it in the past and were either given the numbers privately or told flat out no.
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I honestly don't think they care, because on paper the parks have always done extremely well and continue to do so.

I'm willing to bet the majority of stockholders at Disney can't even name all four parks properly.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
ford91exploder said:
If Disney cuts them off effectively they are out of business I'd say thats reason enough to 'play ball' so to speak
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How would Disney cut them off? Their business is providing economic analysis for everyone else in the industry, which is also often used to help gain design work from all of those other entities. Disney only indirectly pays for this one report (a very small part of their overall economics business which would make sense for them to do regardless) through their TEA membership and sponsorships.
 
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GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
AEfx said:
I honestly don't think they care, because on paper the parks have always done extremely well and continue to do so.

I'm willing to bet the majority of stockholders at Disney can't even name all four parks properly.
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Maybe some. I think there are probably some analysts who attempt to model TWDC results that would love to have more detailed info. Probably more of the sell side analysts than the actual shareholders.
 
Cesar R M

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
PhotoDave219 said:
All this discussion of social media.... it just reminds me of the tale of the emperor's new clothes....
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I can only suggest.. stay away.
I only posted something related to my opinions regarding Depp vs Heard.
Now the online justice brigade are calling me a misogynist, anti feminist, ahole and women abuser (lol).
 
Cesar R M

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Mike S said:
Speaking of which this is one of the stranger attraction ads I've seen. NHL?
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What the hell did I watch?/ (o_O))

koala_wtf.jpg


Mike S said:
I am a fan of NHL but don't see how it connects to Kong.
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Well, bunch of gorillas in suites fighting for a pug and stomping each other with woodsticks? :hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
GoofGoof said:
It's not required by law for them to disclose it but they could offer that bit of information as a way for investors to properly gauge the theme park division. They give a higher level up/down for domestic attendance and then usually back that up with something like DLR was up with WDW down slightly, but how much is slightly down? Did attendance drop by 5% or just 50 people a day? I would think investors would want that info, but maybe they have asked for it in the past and were either given the numbers privately or told flat out no.
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Look up "selective disclosure" - they can't disclosure non-public info to just "some people".

Disney doesn't release that level of detail because they don't want to always do it... It's knowledge that could hurt them more than help them... So don't disclose it.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
flynnibus said:
Look up "selective disclosure" - they can't disclosure non-public info to just "some people".

Disney doesn't release that level of detail because they don't want to always do it... It's knowledge that could hurt them more than help them... So don't disclose it.
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It happens all the time. An investor calls investor relations at TWDC with specific questions and they decide whether to answer or not based on how important the caller is. I don't work for Disney but have a lot of direct experience with investor relations departments at several large companies and I've seen it happen many times. They won't disclose something that's non public like a potential merger or a strategic plan or whether they are on track to meet or exceed current guidance, but they can and will expand on already disclosed information.
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
GoofGoof said:
It happens all the time. An investor calls investor relations at TWDC with specific questions and they decide whether to answer or not based on how important the caller is. I don't work for Disney but have a lot of direct experience with investor relations departments at several large companies and I've seen it happen many times. They won't disclose something that's non public like a potential merger or a strategic plan or whether they are on track to meet or exceed current guidance, but they can and will expand on already disclosed information.
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And then it's no longer non-public info and open for fair game to all. Which is why, they won't let the specifics out and why only certain people are allowed to talk to analysts
 
ParentsOf4

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
GoofGoof said:
It's not required by law for them to disclose it but they could offer that bit of information as a way for investors to properly gauge the theme park division. They give a higher level up/down for domestic attendance and then usually back that up with something like DLR was up with WDW down slightly, but how much is slightly down? Did attendance drop by 5% or just 50 people a day? I would think investors would want that info, but maybe they have asked for it in the past and were either given the numbers privately or told flat out no.
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Eisner stopped reporting numbers after 1984 because he felt investors were too focused on attendance rather than financial results.

Recall that this was at a time when WDW and DLR had their biggest percent price increases ever. From 1984 to 1987, a one-day WDW ticket increased from $18 to $28. That's 56% in 3 years! Parks & Resorts operating income jumped 185% because of these higher prices. Eisner wanted investors focused on that, not attendance.

Most amusement park operators report attendance. Disney and Universal are unusual in that they don't.
 

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