Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
I'm curious, Kman - and this may sound aggressive, but I really don't intend it to be, you're a great poster - what would be YOUR tipping point? What would make you drastically curtail your time at WDW?
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A Spirited 15 Rounds ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
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ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
This piece of paper shows just how far Disney has fallen in both quality and quanity of offerings. The usual suspects always say WDW was never as good as some of us remember.
I'd love to see more of this kind of ephemeral things from WDW and how they compare to todays pale offerings
Indiana Stone
Member
I think that this outrageous pricing issue applies to all forms of entertainment, not just Disney Parks. Movie Tickets, Concerts, Sporting events have all rocketed upward in the past 20 years much faster than the rate of inflation. I personally attend all of these activities much less frequently but I don't think its fair to single out Disney. They all receive fewer of my dollars but as others have stated, someone is still willing to pay these prices on a consistent basis, which these corporations use to justify their decisions.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Given that inflation happens should not the quality and quantity of offerings remain stable.
The problem for many of us is not the price increase its that objectively Disney is offering far less in quality and quantity than at the time a 3day hopper was 35 bucks while the price has increased at a rate which far exceeds inflation
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Same for Star Wars that land should have been started before the ink dried on the purchase agreement
Im not a SW fan but almost a decade after tge purchase before the first land opens!!!! How freaking stupid is that but once again disney stoops for pennies while dollars fly over their head
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I'm different. I live closer. I don't have to buy airfare, I don't have kids, I travel solo. For me it's still affordable (I don't pay for a Disney hotel. I pay under 80 bucks a night for a room on Hotel Plaza Blvd). I understand some are at their tipping point. I get it. If I lived elsewhere and had more people to pay for, I probably wouldn't do it (and there was a period of time I didn't go, for several years, 2008-2015 springs to mind - when they weren't investing in the parks - and I traveled elsewhere, took cruises, went to California) But nothing they've done so far has really made me not want to go. I don't like every decision they make. But we have to understand just because we feel a certain way, not everyone shares that opinion. Because some find less value, there's thousands of others who do. For those who hate what Epcot has become or is becoming, thousands more embrace it. For those that don't like Marvel shoved in, or Star Wars, thousands of others do.
We're a very small minority who look at the parks differently, right or wrong others don't see it the same way and that's who they're catering to.
I'm not going to throw my arms up because they should have used their money better and given us something other than Toy Story Land.
I have to say if they gutted SSE that could be a tipping point. But so far nothing they've done has made me not want to go. I don't like Guardians going into Epcot but it's not stopping me from going. I don't think Frozen was the right fit for WS but I'm fine with Ratatouille. I don't think TRON was the answer for the MK but I'm still looking forward to it. Not everything is make or break for me or black and white.
What do you think the tipping point should be?
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asianway
Well-Known Member
http://www.cbr.com/stan-lee-regrets-not-negotiating-share-of-ownership-in-marvel-creations/
This sez he settled on the TV & Movie rights. No mention of theme parks, and 98 was when MSHI opened. He may have gotten a cut there, and if he did, he could make a future claim.
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
He did not get a cut of MSHI. The agreement for MSHI came when Marvel was going bankrupt and owner Ron Perelman was selling off anything he could for absurdly small fees. The licensing of MSHI, which did not involve Lee, was under conditions remarkably favorable to Uni.
Look, I can 100% guarantee that Lee can not hold up the construction of any Marvel lands, and that he wouldn't if he could.
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
I can't define the tipping point for anyone but myself, and were I in your situation, maybe I wouldn't have reached it.
Actually, I can't even define a single point. The start was the closing of the classic Epcot attractions, but I kept going regularly for decades. The rising prices and declining service chipped away at my affection little by little, and I got a growing sense that Disney didn't care about guests like me or the parks I loved. I guess the final straw was when they eliminated the no-expiration option on tickets. I have stayed at every Disney hotel except AoA, but the decline in accommodation quality became so clear... that was another factor.
A big part of it was Uni offering a viable option. I've been going to HHN for over a decade, and little by little Uni's parks, the services, the hotels got better while Disney's got worse. At some point it felt counterproductive to stay at more expensive, less well-kept WDW hotels and drive to Uni instead of just staying at Uni and maybe spending 1 day at WDW.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I can understand fans of the original Epcot and seeing it's more or less destruction, reaching their tipping point. I didn't really go to Epcot as a kid, I don't have the fond memories like I do of past MK attractions, or parts of the original MGM. Maybe I'd have a different attitude if I did. I wasn't an adult during the heyday, for the 70s and early 80s I wasn't even alive, so had I lived it I can understand where many are coming from, and I do understand. Personally I'd love nothing more than to turn back time and have Energy pre-Ellen, World of Motion, Horizons and original Journey into Imagination back. The damage to Epcot started a long time ago, unfortunately.
And honestly, I don't find the parks to be that unkempt like many do. The monorails need work. The bathrooms aren't the best. I've noticed a decline in customer service (I see so many more miserable castmembers than I ever remember seeing), but none of those are tipping points for me yet.
I'm actually staying on-site at Universal this week, Cabana Bay, for their passholder night on Thursday. I think they do treat their passholders better. I think they have stepped up their customer service but I can't say I've been wowed by them, but everyone's mileage may vary on these like these.
I have to say if I had to pay for a week on-site at either Disney or Universal for more than one person I'd look elsewhere for a vacation.
asianway
Well-Known Member
In contrast, WDW's last passholder event was in 2011. I dont count free cheap glasses they got a sponsor to pay for as a benefit.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
I used to go to Red Sox games when bleacher seats were much less than $5. Interesting thing though, Fenway Park was a dump. The seats were old and dilapidated; you got splinters from them all the time. The walkways were dirty with garbage on the ground. Good luck finding a clean toilet. You ate hot dogs, beer, soda, peanuts, and ice cream bars. That was pretty much it. Players rarely made more than $100k. Except for the superstars, many had to supplement their income with off-season work.
MLB (and all sports) have upped their games by leaps and bounds since then. Even today's minor league parks present a better product than MLB did in the 1970s and before.
What disappoints many of us today is that WDW has gone in the opposite direction, higher prices even as commitment to the customer experience has waned.
I don't mind paying more; I mind paying more for a declining product.
With recent announcements, Disney leadership has fixed the theme park investment problem. Let's see if they can do something to address quality.
Frankly, that's going to be more difficult to solve. For investment, leadership simply had to do something different with net income other than pouring it all into dividends and stock buybacks.
To fix quality, Disney leadership has to change attitude. They have to stop with the "good enough" attitude and recognize why they had to bring in the Four Seasons to open a quality hotel experience.
This doesn't mean WDW is a dump, only that it could do better, like it did in the past. WDW is capable of doing it again, but it takes leadership more focused on quality and less focused on operating margin.
MLB (and all sports) have upped their games by leaps and bounds since then. Even today's minor league parks present a better product than MLB did in the 1970s and before.
What disappoints many of us today is that WDW has gone in the opposite direction, higher prices even as commitment to the customer experience has waned.
I don't mind paying more; I mind paying more for a declining product.
With recent announcements, Disney leadership has fixed the theme park investment problem. Let's see if they can do something to address quality.
Frankly, that's going to be more difficult to solve. For investment, leadership simply had to do something different with net income other than pouring it all into dividends and stock buybacks.
To fix quality, Disney leadership has to change attitude. They have to stop with the "good enough" attitude and recognize why they had to bring in the Four Seasons to open a quality hotel experience.
This doesn't mean WDW is a dump, only that it could do better, like it did in the past. WDW is capable of doing it again, but it takes leadership more focused on quality and less focused on operating margin.
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Kman101
Well-Known Member
I got the new Mickey Monitor and had to laugh as they talked about HOW GREAT IT IS TO BE A PASSHOLDER because you get a FREE BUTTON at Epcot for F&W. I mean ... seriously? It's ridiculous.
If WDW were to do a Passholder night they'd charge you for it.
asianway
Well-Known Member
So be it. At least it would be a benefit.
And since they lost Chase, the glasses got downgraded to a button - its a joke.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Maybe in terms of pure dollars, but they are still spending way too much for what they get, only encouraging a return to underinvestment.
NearTheEars
Well-Known Member
Speaking specifically of the Yeti, I think there's probably thousands of average guests that have seen that footage from the ride of the Yeti moving that they continue to use on TV and they actually think they saw it move when they rode it.
NearTheEars
Well-Known Member
Yep. Being a Chase card member doesn't get you much now. No more lounge and no more photo print, just a download.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
The lack of a photo print is a disappointment to me. Out in Anaheim they still provide the print. We rarely print photos these days for anything, but that always got us a souvenir photo to display each trip.
GiveMeTheMusic
Well-Known Member
DisneyDaver
Well-Known Member
This is what I did for my last visit. 1 day at MK and the rest at Universal. 10 years ago I never though that would happen.
That said, I have a 2 year old now and my next few visits will be exclusively WDW. Universal doesn't have enough to offer for her at this point.