A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

GeneralZod

Well-Known Member
Not going back and forth on SW, Brian. No offense, but don't have the time or interest. I stated my opinion, backed up by people in the biz. ... I have said many times TFA was largely a mediocre film with lots of fan service, one that wasn't Carrie Fisher (that won't happen again) and was designed for toy sales. Sure, better than prequels but that's like saying losing one limb in a car accident is better than losing three and your eyesight.

JJ being back is a sign of a very rudderless Death Star.

But, but it will have lens flares...
You two should really start your own YouTube show: "Everything Wrong with Everything".
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Advertisement
JJ Abrams >> Colin Trevorrow, so not really.


Hopefully JJ has learned a few things from playing it a bit too safe, but I certainly don't see him as a bad move. Force Awakens was visually stunning, well directed and somehow created a new trio of characters that are arguably heading towards the same type of revere the original three did. It's just too safe. But I understand why they made it safe. Episode IX doesn't have those same requirements and I think JJ pays attention to the feedback.

Rian would have been the most seemingly ideal choice, but he didn't seem eager to come back so quickly. Whereas JJ has been lamenting for a while that he wished he didn't have to give up the reins immediately.
They did something simple yet effective in Force Awakens to introduce the new characters. They had established characters sign off on them. Han Solo specifically approves/endorses Rey and I think that allows the audience to do the same.
 

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
They did something simple yet effective in Force Awakens to introduce the new characters. They had established characters sign off on them. Han Solo specifically approves/endorses Rey and I think that allows the audience to do the same.
As someone who enjoyed TFA, I still feel like critics were justified in that it was a virtual "remake" of A New Hope. It seems so many plot points were just straight up lifted from Episode IV that it didn't really leave the franchise with much hope in its future. Now that JJ is back in the saddle, I think most people are probably expecting a rehashed Return of the Jedi. We'll have to see what Rian Johnson's Ep VIII achieves. Before JJ was hired, it was rumored that RJ would get the reins again...but Disney wanted safety.
 

Monorail_Orange

Well-Known Member
As someone who enjoyed TFA, I still feel like critics were justified in that it was a virtual "remake" of A New Hope. It seems so many plot points were just straight up lifted from Episode IV that it didn't really leave the franchise with much hope in its future. Now that JJ is back in the saddle, I think most people are probably expecting a rehashed Return of the Jedi. We'll have to see what Rian Johnson's Ep VIII achieves. Before JJ was hired, it was rumored that RJ would get the reins again...but Disney wanted safety.
I agree with this. I like TFA, even though, yes, it has a similar feeling to ANH. I'm willing to give JJ a chance. I'm one of those people who enjoy both Star Wars and Star Trek. I liked the JJ Trek movies (Scotty, maximum sheilds!!! Flames incoming!!), but am excited about the rumors of the next movie (if it gets made) might come full circle and restore the original timeline. I bring that up to show why I'm willing to give JJ a shot on this one. I also get that if you didn't care for TFA for whatever reason, this is not good news. And I also agree with @WDW1974 that going back to JJ says TWDC really doesn't have a vision for the SW franchise. (Where is the rudder on the Death Star anyway? ;))
 

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
I agree with this. I like TFA, even though, yes, it has a similar feeling to ANH. I'm willing to give JJ a chance. I'm one of those people who enjoy both Star Wars and Star Trek. I liked the JJ Trek movies (Scotty, maximum sheilds!!! Flames incoming!!), but am excited about the rumors of the next movie (if it gets made) might come full circle and restore the original timeline. I bring that up to show why I'm willing to give JJ a shot on this one. I also get that if you didn't care for TFA for whatever reason, this is not good news. And I also agree with @WDW1974 that going back to JJ says TWDC really doesn't have a vision for the SW franchise. (Where is the rudder on the Death Star anyway? ;))
They don't have a vision for the franchise, because so much of corporate lacks creative vision in anything that isn't hocking merch and creating cinematic universes for quick profit and remaking their animated catalogue.
 

Monorail_Orange

Well-Known Member
They don't have a vision for the franchise, because so much of corporate lacks creative vision in anything that isn't hocking merch and creating cinematic universes for quick profit and remaking their animated catalogue.
Which is a reason why it was questionable to shove aside the abundant previous post-Return of the Jedi canon and turn it into "Legends." Other than possibly having to recast the characters, Zahn's trilogy, for starters, was ready made to become Episodes 7, 8, and 9. There were loads of stories to go for beyond that. It's another good example of the broader problem with the company turning away from one of the core principles that made the Disney name, "Quality will out." Now, it's maximized profit will out.
 

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
Which is a reason why it was questionable to shove aside the abundant previous post-Return of the Jedi canon and turn it into "Legends." Other than possibly having to recast the characters, Zahn's trilogy, for starters, was ready made to become Episodes 7, 8, and 9. There were loads of stories to go for beyond that. It's another good example of the broader problem with the company turning away from one of the core principles that made the Disney name, "Quality will out." Now, it's maximized profit will out.
"Maximized Profit for minimum effort. If we have some kind of template to go off of, we'll use it"...will out ;)
 
If people are unhappy with the direction of the new SW movies, then the solution is not to watch them. Why spend your hard earned money on something you don't like.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
They did something simple yet effective in Force Awakens to introduce the new characters. They had established characters sign off on them. Han Solo specifically approves/endorses Rey and I think that allows the audience to do the same.

I think the character introductions and development in TFA was remarkably well done and you bring up a good point about one way it was effectively achieved. There's definitely legitimately good complaints about TFA but by having good characters that the audience likes, it bodes well for Ep VIII and IX because people will want to learn their stories and not just those of the original trilogy characters.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
If people are unhappy with the direction of the new SW movies, then the solution is not to watch them. Why spend your hard earned money on something you don't like.

I don't think the discontent in this thread about the "poor quality" of the new prequels is or will be borne out by the general public. Will the sequels and spin offs all have a significant degree of corporate processing and be "safe"? Absolutely. But on the flip side, Disney's film side has pretty amazing quality control compared to other studios in that they rarely produce outright crap films and typically have had well regarded -- both by fans and critics -- works come out.

It's unlikely that any of the upcoming Star Wars movies will be all time great movies, but I think they will all be highly entertaining, easy to enjoy (and re-watch and quote...) and be soaked up by the general populace. We'll see if any stinkers actually come out.
 
Last edited:

Absimilliard

Well-Known Member
I think I have precisely the opposite opinion on all of these issues!

I really like Crush's Coaster, but the capacity is horrible which means the wait is almost always longer than I'm willing to endure. At WDW you'd have to build three of them side-by-side for it to work!

Ratatouille will fit perfectly into the France Pavilion. I was just there a few weeks ago watching Impressions de France and thinking about what a nice feel the pavilion will have with those two attractions which both have a kind of gentleness to them which suits the country.

As for Hyperspace Mountain, I absolutely loved it when I was there in June! It does indeed clash with the theming of the exterior of the ride, but the on-ride experience was fantastic for me and I think they did a great job in using screens, music, and lighting to maximum effect. I was expecting a lame overlay but was very pleasantly surprised. The ride itself is always rough, but then my most recent comparison is WDW's Space Mountain recently which was both rough and totally underwhelming.

Enjoy DLRP!

Crush Coaster capacity is a measly 700 people per hour... and that's with continuous loading! Also, the restraints have to be quite tight and looking at Hersheypark similar Laff Track, WDW would have major issues with guests fitting. The ride was also quite problematic as the ride components did not last as long as they hoped for.
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
I don't think he means well and I don't think he seems like a nice guy. His decade long urinating grudge against this site and @wdwmagic in particular would be example No. 1. His putting out (continuously) erroneous information as fact (like Joe Rohde and Tom Fitzgerald being axed by Disney) and not coming back and offering a mea culpa would be another. His putting out half-truths (HKDL is bulldozing its castle ... and Tron is replacing the Speedway) and then claiming he was right all the time is Trumpian in nature. And let's not even get into his public meltdown on Twitter a year or two ago when his then fiancee left him at the altar (or just walked out on him right before the wedding). Some things really should be private.

This comment doesn't come from a place of meaning well or being nice, but I am dead serious when I admit, that seeing images of this guy makes me reconsider my entire life. It actually gives me an existential crisis, that I could share any interests with this guy.
 
I don't think the discontent in this thread about the "poor quality" of the new prequels is or will be borne out by the general public. Will the sequels and spin offs all have a significant degree of corporate processing and be "safe"? Absolutely. But on the flip side, Disney's film side has pretty amazing quality control compared to other studios in that they rarely produce outright crap films and typically have had well regarded -- both by fans and critics -- works come out.

It's unlikely that any of the upcoming Star Wars movies will be all time great movies, but I think they will all be highly entertaining, easy to enjoy (and re-watch and quote...) and be soaked up by the general populace. We'll see if any stinkers actually come out.

I generally enjoy all the Disney movies. I though TFA was great, Rogue One was better. But I enjoyed them all.

JJ Abrams has directed/produced a lot of high quality projects in his career.
 

dennis-in-ct

Well-Known Member
The comment that WDW is not meeting attendance expectations and that an unusual amount of discounts are being offered right now makes me believe, as I have said way too many times on this forum, that it is the insane expensive that has driven the people away. ROOMS FOR 600 !?? What!?! A two-day Adult park hopper is 275.00 !?!? That was a little less than an annual pass in the early 2000's. It is insane. WDW keeps pushing to see HOW MUCH it can get away with but the result is they are alienating a core group of loyal customers. I really *want* to go and spend money but not when I am being price gouged.

People who go to WDW frequently have seen the prices skyrocket. I feel like I am experiencing the same stuff I saw late 90's - early 2000's for 400 times more money. My last visit (1yr and 4 months ago) made me feel bad - then annoyed - for letting myself be taken advantage of. Epcot future world was plain out sad and felt neglected. I felt like a rube (as SPIRIT would say) - pixie dust and all.

The crazy thing is we booked a two day stay this Jan (before taking a Carnival cruise - not a Disney cruise cause its three times the money as carnival) and staying at the all-stars and no hopper ticket. In the past, I would stay at a mod. or deluxe and now I am at a crappy all star. I want to see Avatar, Rivers of Light and the new Castle show. So - just a magic your way ticket will do, MK and AK. In the past with my hopper I would have seen all 4 parks. It will be interesting to see if I feel as gouged this trip as I did last trip. My previous frequency would be twice a year and stay at a deluxe or Moderate and maintain an annual pass. No more. So why am I going back? I have a love for the parks and the imagination and keep hoping that feeling will return. With the new projects coming up, I have hope but if they jack-up the prices again they will be shooting themselves in the OTHER foot. Now I visit less than once a year (in some cases it would be a 4 year span for a particular park) and some years only buy a one-day park ticket due to the expense and lack of new offerings. As many know, other international parks have their seasonal celebrations and do not charge extra for the event unlike WDW. It is just insane.

Did I mention I had two bedroom unit at the Sheraton Vistana Resort right outside the gates for the price of a moderate? Gorgeous resort, full kitchen, living room, laundry and HUGE. Much bigger than and DVC unit on site. Book through COSTCO ... they have awesome packages. Just don't accept the vacation club spiel for a 100.00 visa card. Urgh *slaps head* ... downright painful.

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/shera...D=5608&EM=GOOGLEPLACES_5608_VSERESSALES_ECOMM

When a company p.isses people off with blatant gouging - people will shy away - and as Al lutz would remind his readers (back in the day ;) ) that it is cheaper to maintain a current customer than it is to get them BACK.

I still won't buy the Gillette Fusion men's razor after several years of being a loyal customer now that the prices have dropped to 42.00 from 54 dollars on the bulk pack at COSTCO. They started out as 37.00 - why ? cause they jacked up the cost and price gouged. I switched brands and wont go back just on principle. Love my Harry's razor from Target at the moment. See ya. Nothing like making a consumer *feel* stupid for allowing themselves to be gouged.

When people are p.issed and feel ripped off - you're gonna lose them.
 
Last edited:

wannabeBelle

Well-Known Member
and as Al lutz would remind his readers (back in the day ;) ) that it is cheaper to maintain a current customer than it is to get them BACK.
This!!! Disney puts a lot of emphasis on the marketing of families. That includes people taking their kids, because Mom and Dad took them. Once you start missing generations and the kids dont have that great family memory to look back on and recreate with their kids, it is going to take a LONG time to get back that kind of guest. Marie
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
This!!! Disney puts a lot of emphasis on the marketing of families. That includes people taking their kids, because Mom and Dad took them. Once you start missing generations and the kids dont have that great family memory to look back on and recreate with their kids, it is going to take a LONG time to get back that kind of guest. Marie

And I think people forget how quickly those generations go. I realize you are talking about parks, but it extends to Disney overall. So much of what kids do consume is based on their parents nostalgia and sharing with those kids. And now that people that grew up in the 90's are having kids, they aren't passing it on like they used to.

Up until the mid-90's, there was really only one brand of kid's entertainment - Disney. Everything else was a cheap knock-off. Then other studios started building their own kid-friendly franchises, and even Pixar muddied that water. And flash to today - there is so much out there just vying for kids attention, and more often than not, when a kid is in front of a screen - it's not passively watching a movie from 50 or 70 years ago. As much as they may still be classics and worthwhile.

To many kids today, Disney means live-action sitcoms that come and go. They just don't automatically have the attachment in general any more, and Disney just hasn't done the right things to attract them.
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
I mean, Disney has also abandoned the Disney stew of design strategies, themes, values, pedagogy/edutainment, aspiration, optimism, reality and history with which Disney branded content from the studios was mixed. It is still there in its own way in Orlando and Anaheim, but they aren't building things like that anymore. The growth strategy right now is for Disney to follow universal's lead, which is dangerous, because the IP game turns every park into a magic kingdom//late 80s studio park collage, which severely disincentivizes a stay at Walt Disney world or a visit to each park because they all are becoming one in the same, with nothing to offer in particular. What will Disney's competitive advantage be when all of its parks look exactly like Universal studios, meaningless landscapes filled with dated IP attractions?
 
Top Bottom