A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

Princess Leia

Well-Known Member
Have heard reasons why Phantom Manor is being delayed at DLP until January. Have also heard the changes to the attraction are a bit more substantial than Disney has released. But I was also told if I liked the changes at DLP's Pirates, then I should be OK with the PM changes. We shall see as that is one of my favourite attractions anywhere.
This is the first I'm hearing about Phantom Manor. Are they planning on changing the plot of the ride?
 

TiggerDad

Well-Known Member
Random Spirited Thoughts:

The more this place changes, the more the same old trolls come out from under rocks.

I admit to being a bit torn on the TDS expansion project, but in the end, I favour it ... simply because, as I just told a friend and fellow member of this forum, at the end of the day this is the OLC. Damn near everything they do turns out amazing and they add money for details, they don't constantly chip away at it (like has happened with your beloved Toy Story Kiddieland and Star Wars Franchise Land coming soon to what was TPFKaTD-MGMS). Ultimately, I have faith in the OLC because setting foot in their parks in 2018 still feels like stepping into the MK and EPCOT in the 1980s. In some ways, even better. I'd love for anyone to try and contort themselves into saying any park at WDW that doesn't have animals in the title is actually better than it was at opening or even after 15 years of operation. You can't.

No surprise on Peter Doctor and Jennifer Lee being elevated to basically replace John Lasseter. And they are absolutely the right people for those positions. Pete because he is a legend in his field and has earned it. Jennifer because she is highly talented, not a Burbank lifer and, yeah, directed that little Frozen film. You will not see a drop off in quality under these two at all.

Speaking of which, is it still in vogue in the fan community to take shots at Pixar and openly pull for their films to not be successful? Because they still have a record that is damn near perfect. Only one film, The Good Dinosaur, has lost money. Just one. And one that was troubled from the start and Iger decided it was worth sacrificing to the Star Wars ...now, Disney has put out four SW films and has already had one failure. Just saying ... (some fans would also consider The Last Jedi to be a failure because they didn't like the direction it took. I didn't like it either, but that probably goes without saying.)

Still, keep hearing that WDW (as well as UNI) isn't very crowded at all. I have had people, numerous people, tell me that EPCOT-- in particular -- has been dead. I am not going into deep analysis as to why this might be. Because your thoughts are probably mine. If you want nice dining, nice shopping and music, why would you ever go to EPCOT when you don't have to pay $120 a day to enter Disney Springs? Right, the Sheriff got that project nailed. So much so, that DS is pulling people out of parks.

Ah, so this is the week we start the uncharge parties at Typhoon Lagoon. Is this where I tell you there was a time when the water parks, well, at least RC and TL, had night hours in summer for all people? Nah ...

Besides, aren't we starting MNSSHP right after July 4th now?

Have heard reasons why Phantom Manor is being delayed at DLP until January. Have also heard the changes to the attraction are a bit more substantial than Disney has released. But I was also told if I liked the changes at DLP's Pirates, then I should be OK with the PM changes. We shall see as that is one of my favourite attractions anywhere.

Yes, UNI is purposely delaying Nintendo from being built. Yes, those rumours you have heard about moving it to the third gate (the real one, not the water park) are true. Yes, UNI is still living off of Potter in FL while it opens complete crap like Fallon and Fast and Furious.

Have you heard a peep about SDL expansion plans? Really?

Anyone who looks at the amount of destruction of trees and wetlands at WDW for massive hotel/timeshare projects, infrastructure and wider open spaces in the parks and doesn't feel sad, doesn't get what WDW was for its first three decades at all.

Did y'all happen to notice Danny Cockerell's abrupt resignation from the company? Could it be that Chappie told him that he wouldn't be replacing Queen George after all?

Speaking of which, I just went to the toilet, did EPCOT get a new VP while I was gone?

Anyone know if HEA will be shown again through the Christmas season or if the old and tired Holiday Wishes will return or a new show?

Speaking of entertainment, remember when DAK and DHS had daily parades and the MK had both day and night parades? And how much less did tickets cost then?

Are vinylmations still a thing?

RIP: DD ESPN Zone and Rainforest Cafe. Had some nice meals at both and while losing them isn't a tragedy, this hastily thrown together plan for Anaheim's new hotel and revamped DD doesn't make a lot of sense. BTW, saw some pics of the redone WoD there ... like their design team went to lunch at a Chipotle or Blaze to come up with an idea for how to revamp the place.
So no word on parking at DL? You're not going to weigh in on how they will fix EPCOT? I guess you're saving something for the blog?
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Please!! SDL is ready for a second park.
Not quite. History tells us that the primary gate attendance numbers usually soften when a second gate goes in.

Lack of investment and the usual trend towards a bit softer attendance outside of the opening years would set them up for losses. Their break even numbers seem to sit between 8-10 million for that park. The attendance is robust, but 11 million and change isn't enough to start splitting.

What they need is major capacity upgrades so SDL can actually handle more people.
 

jaxonp

Well-Known Member
Not quite. History tells us that the primary gate attendance numbers usually soften when a second gate goes in.

Lack of investment and the usual trend towards a bit softer attendance outside of the opening years would set them up for losses. Their break even numbers seem to sit between 8-10 million for that park. The attendance is robust, but 11 million and change isn't enough to start splitting.

What they need is major capacity upgrades so SDL can actually handle more people.
Has there been a foreign Disney park thats had more initial success than Shanghai? And also I could be wrong but I thought that park tracked 14-15 mil in attendance???
 

jaxonp

Well-Known Member
SHDL’s first full year attendance was estimated to be 11 Million by TEA/AECOM

Also,

SDR is the first initially successful international resort THEY have a stake in.
I'm aware of all that, but maybe I'm misremembering Bob Iger talk about larger attendance numbers in one of the last quarterly calls... and come on, OLC doesn't get included. They always win.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Has there been a foreign Disney park thats had more initial success than Shanghai? And also I could be wrong but I thought that park tracked 14-15 mil in attendance???
Nope, 11-odd million they officially announced for their first year. We've just finished the second and they've now done their usual retreat into not saying. One has to assume it's not dramatically higher (it's also getting to theoretically impossible for them to hit 14-15mil without us hearing about very, very frequent ticket sell outs).

It's performing reasonably similarly to Tokyo, perhaps even a tad better initially, but Tokyo built up a good amount of steam over their first 5 years. Tokyo took their sweet time and recorded attendance in the 16-17 million range before opening Tokyo Disney Sea in 2001. It took about 10 years for the isolated Disneyland attendance to hit those mid-high teen levels again.

Paris on the other hand started a bit weaker, but was doing reasonably well with 12.5mil annual attendance when they opened WDS. It tanked Euro Disney S.C.A as a result, the product of course sucked, but now they were more or less just splitting the annual attendance without significant gains.

Of course they need to certainly be thinking about a second gate, OLC 'announced' one in 1988 and took an additional 13 years to build it. By thinking about it though they need to think about the steps needed to get there first. Those steps include expanding SDL capacity to start to hit those mid teen guest numbers.

Hong Kong has honestly done the best job of showing the responsibility of slow, measured additions with cautiously steering clear of a second gate or a downtown disney complex. Both of which would have completely doomed that resort.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t put them on such a pedestal. The decision making is the same, the circumstances of what is popular in Japan are different. They just don’t like Marvel nearly as much and aren’t license restricted by Universal Japan. Star Wars isn’t nearly as popular with many many animated movies (including Frozen) dominating the box office above it.

If anything OLC has taken the uniformity approach to the extreme. All Animated attractions all the time. The only ride that breaks from that mold is Soaring and that’s a clone.

This doesn’t mean I am not looking forward to it personally, as a worldwide whole it is refreshing to me. But several posters here have very valid criticisms.
I really love how more alive and animated the Pooh AA's at Pooh's Hunny Hunt at Tokyo compared to the plastic/static ones at the other parks. Especially since most of the characters are given fur and feathers to make them look more alive.

Special mention goes to Owl
 
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jaxonp

Well-Known Member
Nope, 11-odd million they officially announced for their first year. We've just finished the second and they've now done their usual retreat into not saying. One has to assume it's not dramatically higher (it's also getting to theoretically impossible for them to hit 14-15mil without us hearing about very, very frequent ticket sell outs).

It's performing reasonably similarly to Tokyo, perhaps even a tad better initially, but Tokyo built up a good amount of steam over their first 5 years. Tokyo took their sweet time and recorded attendance in the 16-17 million range before opening Tokyo Disney Sea in 2001. It took about 10 years for the isolated Disneyland attendance to hit those mid-high teen levels again.

Paris on the other hand started a bit weaker, but was doing reasonably well with 12.5mil annual attendance when they opened WDS. It tanked Euro Disney S.C.A as a result, the product of course sucked, but now they were more or less just splitting the annual attendance without significant gains.

Of course they need to certainly be thinking about a second gate, OLC 'announced' one in 1988 and took an additional 13 years to build it. By thinking about it though they need to think about the steps needed to get there first. Those steps include expanding SDL capacity to start to hit those mid teen guest numbers.

Hong Kong has honestly done the best job of showing the responsibility of slow, measured additions with cautiously steering clear of a second gate or a downtown disney complex. Both of which would have completely doomed that resort.
All of that sounds good, however.. China is a completely different ball game. They have a massive middle class now larger than all of Japan. Expansion at a faster rate makes a lot of sense in Shanghai when you consider the 100s of millions of people within an hour or so of the park. That can't be overlooked.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Random Spirited Thoughts:

The more this place changes, the more the same old trolls come out from under rocks.

I admit to being a bit torn on the TDS expansion project, but in the end, I favour it ... simply because, as I just told a friend and fellow member of this forum, at the end of the day this is the OLC. Damn near everything they do turns out amazing and they add money for details, they don't constantly chip away at it (like has happened with your beloved Toy Story Kiddieland and Star Wars Franchise Land coming soon to what was TPFKaTD-MGMS). Ultimately, I have faith in the OLC because setting foot in their parks in 2018 still feels like stepping into the MK and EPCOT in the 1980s. In some ways, even better. I'd love for anyone to try and contort themselves into saying any park at WDW that doesn't have animals in the title is actually better than it was at opening or even after 15 years of operation. You can't.

No surprise on Peter Doctor and Jennifer Lee being elevated to basically replace John Lasseter. And they are absolutely the right people for those positions. Pete because he is a legend in his field and has earned it. Jennifer because she is highly talented, not a Burbank lifer and, yeah, directed that little Frozen film. You will not see a drop off in quality under these two at all.

Speaking of which, is it still in vogue in the fan community to take shots at Pixar and openly pull for their films to not be successful? Because they still have a record that is damn near perfect. Only one film, The Good Dinosaur, has lost money. Just one. And one that was troubled from the start and Iger decided it was worth sacrificing to the Star Wars ...now, Disney has put out four SW films and has already had one failure. Just saying ... (some fans would also consider The Last Jedi to be a failure because they didn't like the direction it took. I didn't like it either, but that probably goes without saying.)

Still, keep hearing that WDW (as well as UNI) isn't very crowded at all. I have had people, numerous people, tell me that EPCOT-- in particular -- has been dead. I am not going into deep analysis as to why this might be. Because your thoughts are probably mine. If you want nice dining, nice shopping and music, why would you ever go to EPCOT when you don't have to pay $120 a day to enter Disney Springs? Right, the Sheriff got that project nailed. So much so, that DS is pulling people out of parks.

Ah, so this is the week we start the uncharge parties at Typhoon Lagoon. Is this where I tell you there was a time when the water parks, well, at least RC and TL, had night hours in summer for all people? Nah ...

Besides, aren't we starting MNSSHP right after July 4th now?

Have heard reasons why Phantom Manor is being delayed at DLP until January. Have also heard the changes to the attraction are a bit more substantial than Disney has released. But I was also told if I liked the changes at DLP's Pirates, then I should be OK with the PM changes. We shall see as that is one of my favourite attractions anywhere.

Yes, UNI is purposely delaying Nintendo from being built. Yes, those rumours you have heard about moving it to the third gate (the real one, not the water park) are true. Yes, UNI is still living off of Potter in FL while it opens complete crap like Fallon and Fast and Furious.

Have you heard a peep about SDL expansion plans? Really?

Anyone who looks at the amount of destruction of trees and wetlands at WDW for massive hotel/timeshare projects, infrastructure and wider open spaces in the parks and doesn't feel sad, doesn't get what WDW was for its first three decades at all.

Did y'all happen to notice Danny Cockerell's abrupt resignation from the company? Could it be that Chappie told him that he wouldn't be replacing Queen George after all?

Speaking of which, I just went to the toilet, did EPCOT get a new VP while I was gone?

Anyone know if HEA will be shown again through the Christmas season or if the old and tired Holiday Wishes will return or a new show?

Speaking of entertainment, remember when DAK and DHS had daily parades and the MK had both day and night parades? And how much less did tickets cost then?

Are vinylmations still a thing?

RIP: DD ESPN Zone and Rainforest Cafe. Had some nice meals at both and while losing them isn't a tragedy, this hastily thrown together plan for Anaheim's new hotel and revamped DD doesn't make a lot of sense. BTW, saw some pics of the redone WoD there ... like their design team went to lunch at a Chipotle or Blaze to come up with an idea for how to revamp the place.
Remember before WDW decided to extend Move It Shake It (Originally temporary) as a second daytime parade/show hybrid (I refuse to call that a parade). The only parade guests would usually wait for is the 2/3pm parades that run only once or twice a day? When will WDW finally retire Move It Shake It? Wasn't it supposed to be part of a WDW campaign from 2009? I still hate the fact that the only time you get to see Judy and Nick from Zootopia anywhere at WDW besides the holidays is just for a show/parade hybrid.
 
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Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
I admit to being a bit torn on the TDS expansion project, but in the end, I favour it ... simply because, as I just told a friend and fellow member of this forum, at the end of the day this is the OLC. Damn near everything they do turns out amazing and they add money for details, they don't constantly chip away at it (like has happened with your beloved Toy Story Kiddieland and Star Wars Franchise Land coming soon to what was TPFKaTD-MGMS). Ultimately, I have faith in the OLC because setting foot in their parks in 2018 still feels like stepping into the MK and EPCOT in the 1980s. In some ways, even better. I'd love for anyone to try and contort themselves into saying any park at WDW that doesn't have animals in the title is actually better than it was at opening or even after 15 years of operation. You can't.
So, if Disney still ran the parks that they own at the level of the OLC, would you be in favor of every addition regardless of how it may or may not clash with the thematic integrity of an indivual park? Also, do the Galaxy's Edge budget cuts mean we should be prepared to be disappointed by it? Even so, I have trouble believing Galaxy's Edge wouldn't make studios an overall better theme park than it was 15 years after it opened, which was around the time it permanently seized operations as a working studio.
Anyone who looks at the amount of destruction of trees and wetlands at WDW for massive hotel/timeshare projects, infrastructure and wider open spaces in the parks and doesn't feel sad, doesn't get what WDW was for its first three decades at all.
While I strongly agree with you on the destruction of trees and wetlands elsewhere in the resort, can we really pitch a fit over what's happening to River Country? That place closed nearly 17 years ago and has been left to rot ever since. It's replacement may not be ideal, but it's certainly better than the corpse of a long dead water park that was only useful for urban explorers to put on YouTube and draw attention to what Disney let become of a sizable piece of valuable real estate.
Speaking of entertainment, remember when DAK and DHS had daily parades and the MK had both day and night parades? And how much less did tickets cost then?
Yes, when you got more bang for less bucks. As much as Animal Kingdom has improved in recent years, the middle of the day feels a bit empty without MJJP. Also, I'll never fully forgive MK management for what they did to SpectroMagic. Nighttime entertainment in that park hasn't been the same ever since.
 

UpAllNight

Well-Known Member
Put me in the camp of being confused about Universals direction this past few years. Irregardless, I asked for more Potter and we’re getting 1 (or more?) new ride which I’m very excited about. Something is happening at Jurassic Park too, and hopefully the J World updates to river adventure....again, I’ve wanted updates for this land for years.

More surprised about the lack of urgency to sort the original park out.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
Remember before WDW decided to extend Move It Shake It (Originally temporary) as a second daytime parade/show hybrid (I refuse to call that a parade). The only parade guests would usually wait for is the 2/3pm parades that run only once or twice a day? When will WDW finally retire Move It Shake It? Wasn't it supposed to be part of a WDW campaign from 2009? I still hate the fact that the only time you get to see Judy and Nick from Zootopia anywhere at WDW besides the holidays is just for a show/parade hybrid.
I'll never understand why TDO decided to cut Talking Mickey instead of that poor excuse of daytime entertainment.
 
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