A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[Mike S]

Ah yes I keep forgetting that the last Jedi is the last star wars film in it's trilogy thus leading to no resolutions.... As for for infinity wars "plot" you'd be rather generous to call it then given almost every major moment from this film is going to be undone. But it's groundbreaking for doing so...I'm sorry I really love marvel movies I do but this was weak.

The Last Jedi took all the questions from TFA and threw them aside. It also had uninteresting leads and didn’t even give Luke a proper sendoff. They need to look at Marvel for how to show off fan favorites. I desperately wish Luke had a scene as good as any of these heroes and that he was actually there doing the fighting. I’m sorry but if Rey is just going to be godlike with the force with no training or explanation she’s a very uninteresting character. I wanted to see Luke. It’s also BS that we’ll never have a scene with the original trio reunited.

 

[Mike S]

Was it fun to see all these characters interact? Of course and the action scenes were a blast. But there was no meat beyond that, everything this film did was a stunt given that it won't matter. I know people give the last Jedi some crap but at least it sticks to it's narrative.

Wow. So it’s bad it’s following the comic storyline of Infinity Gauntlet in how this plays out?

 

[Sped2424]

Wow. So it’s bad it’s following the comic storyline of Infinity Gauntlet in how this plays out?

Sorry to say so but yeah and this wasn't even a 1 to 1 adaption. There was a lot here that just didn't work. And if we take a hard look at comic events which effect multiple story runs many times they do so at the detriment to said stories. This felt very much in line with that practice.

 

[AEfx]

Ah yes I keep forgetting that the last Jedi is the last star wars film in it's trilogy thus leading to no resolutions....

That isn't the problem - the problem is that it willfully ignored and crapped upon the previous film in so many ways.

But, eh, this has all been discussed to death before - you assuredly disagree, it is clear that there are two very distinct ways to view that film, just as I am sure there are this one.

 

[Sped2424]

The Last Jedi took all the questions from TFA and threw them aside. It also had uninteresting leads and didn’t even give Luke a proper sendoff. They need to look at Marvel for how to show off fan favorites. I desperately wish Luke had a scene as good as any of these heroes and that he was actually there doing the fighting. I’m sorry but if Rey is just going to be godlike with the force with no training or explanation she’s a very uninteresting character. I wanted to see Luke. It’s also BS that we’ll never have a scene with the original trio reunited.

I'm sorry but it seems like you missed many of the points the last Jedi was making especially when it came to Luke. The last Jedi took expectations and defied the safe narrative structure that blockbusters adhere too. Beyond that it just did it well, the lesson of failure and learning from it was the heart of TLJ. It rings throughout every arc in said film. I cant take away one thing from Infinity War other than thanos bad and he must be stopped. And no better send off for the boy who dreamt of the stars then by looking at the same two Suns when he was a simple kid on a moisture farm.


Luke doesn't need to show up and kill an army of storm troopers with a light saber by himself in order to be done "right". This whole Mary Sue convo with Rey always brings me joy. We like to forget Luke destroyed a death star after one training session. Not only that but Rey was fighting as a scavenger for years, her being adapt at using a blade and the force to help her shouldn't be that big of a stretch in the heat of a battle. Nor should it hold such weight on the narrative. I could run this thread into the ground when it comes to TLJ so I'll leave it at this.

 

[Mike S]

I'm sorry but it seems like you missed many of the points the last Jedi was making especially when it came to Luke. The last Jedi took expectations and defines the safe narrative structure that blockbusters adhere too. Beyond that it just did it well, the lesson of failure and learning from it was the heart of TLJ. It rings throughout every arc in said film. I can take away one thing from Infinity War other than thanos bad and he must be stopped. And no better send off for the boy who dreamt of the stars then by looking at the same two Suns when he was a simple kid on a moisture farm.


Luke doesn't need to show up and kill an army of storm troopers with a light saber by himself in order to be done "right". This whole Mary Sue convo with Rey always brings me joy. We like to forget Luke destroyed a death star after one training session. Not only that but Rey was fighting as a scavenger for years, her being adapt at using a blade and the force should to help her do so shouldn't be that big of a stretch. Nor should it hold such weight on the narrative. I could run this thread into the ground when it comes to TLJ so I'll leave it at this.

Blade sure, but not the Force. Luke also already knew how to shoot. He used to bullseye womprats in his T16, remember? Luke needed a lot of training leading up to what he could do in RotJ. At the beginning of Empire he could barely Force pull a Lightsaber but we’re supposed to believe Rey can do a mind trick seconds after knowing it exists? “Lifting rocks” is also one of the most cringe worthy scenes I’ve ever seen.

If failure and learning from it is at the heart of the movie then LucasFilm are actually geniuses. They should take their own advice because this movie was a failure.

I liked TFA btw. I was willing to let some things slide for Episode 8 to answer but that was thrown right out the window. Episode 9 has to be mind blowing to fix this train wreck.

Edit: oh, and not Storm Troopers. How about if Luke actually fought Kylo Ren or even Snoke? But no, he dies because astral projection is too hard. Wimp. Even Mark Hamil is mad at how they treated Luke.

 

[brb1006]

Lucasfilm congratulates Marvel for claiming the title of Biggest Opening Weekend

 

[AEfx]

Blade sure, but not the Force. Luke also already knew how to shoot. He used to bullseye womprats in his T16, remember? Luke needed a lot of training leading up to what he could do in RotJ. At the beginning of Empire he could barely Force pull a Lightsaber but we’re supposed to believe Rey can do a mind trick seconds after knowing it exists? “Lifting rocks” is also one of the most cringe worthy scenes I’ve ever seen.

ROFL, man, you would think at this point people wouldn't still be trying to justify the clear narrative mess made by TFA and TLJ by still sticking by the "but the originals..." fallacies. As you have been pointing out, most of the time they just plain aren't the same, and on the rare occasions they are comparable, it is like - "so, they didn't learn their lesson the last time, then?" You are completely right.


But let's just say we totally ignore all the things we know that TFA put forth that were abandoned for TLJ. Now that TLJ is freely available to watch back to back with TFA, I just don't know how at this point anyone (no matter if they loved it or not) cannot admit just how contrived and ridiculous the timeline of this trilogy so far is. If you are being generous, from the start of TFA when Rey is sand surfing to the last shot of TLJ of her all Jedi'd up after expertly flying the MF (again) - it's about TEN DAYS.

Worse, the dialogue goes out of its way to point this out. Remember when Finn wakes up and Poe is like "you must have a million questions!" I literally laugh out loud now, because it is like - so how difficult is it going to be to fill him in on the last 48 hours or so? LOL.

Once you see and accept this, you cannot unsee it, and you just have to laugh at how absurd the heightened emotions are. I mean...Finn and Phasma have had this epic feud that needed to be dramatically resolved...an epic feud over what happened...about four days ago! Haha. Or, just the sheer insanity of this "complex" relationship between Kylo and Rey...or pretty much any of these characters. Even if you like what they did with the characters, you cannot ignore how it just makes no narrative sense.

In this case, there clearly was "breathing room" between the OT films during which assuredly Luke was continuing his training. But when you realize that Rey is really "no one", and had no prior experience with any of this, and just went from digging in dirt for her daily "portions" to being the most powerful existing Jedi known in the galaxy...it's just, really? That is why she loses any comparison to Luke.

 

[asianway]

Except the vast majority of people who watched the movie haven’t read the comics (example- me, as I’ve only read Fraction & Aja’s Hawkeye and a few issues of Captain Marvel, but most people don’t even have that background).

So yes, the source material is available, but it isn’t familiar to everyone.

There was no source material for Empire, they are apples and oranges

 

[ford91exploder]

The Last Jedi took all the questions from TFA and threw them aside. It also had uninteresting leads and didn’t even give Luke a proper sendoff. They need to look at Marvel for how to show off fan favorites. I desperately wish Luke had a scene as good as any of these heroes and that he was actually there doing the fighting. I’m sorry but if Rey is just going to be godlike with the force with no training or explanation she’s a very uninteresting character. I wanted to see Luke. It’s also BS that we’ll never have a scene with the original trio reunited.

TLJ very disappointing saw it on a cross country redeye it was free so no issues with me sending money to Disney, Lots of disjointed plot items unnecessary character deaths Kylo Ren weakest villain ever who needed a good punch in the face to send him sniveling under whatever rock he crawled out from under.

I cant imagine how people feel who paid to watch that hot mess which also ticks all the SJW ‘must haves’

But now Star Wars is merely a brand so Disney will mix up a bunch of tropes in costumes and call it Star Wars and expect to knock down a billion or so.

Ugh.

 

[Mike S]

Lucasfilm congratulates Marvel for claiming the title of Biggest Opening Weekend

Now I want Iron Jedi...

TLJ very disappointing saw it on a cross country redeye it was free so no issues with me sending money to Disney, Lots of disjointed plot items unnecessary character deaths Kylo Ren weakest villain ever who needed a good punch in the face to send him sniveling under whatever rock he crawled out from under.

I cant imagine how people feel who paid to watch that hot mess which also ticks all the SJW ‘must haves’

But now Star Wars is merely a brand so Disney will mix up a bunch of tropes in costumes and call it Star Wars and expect to knock down a billion or so.

Ugh.

I didn’t want to bring up that aspect because I have no problem diversifying a cast but you have to get good people as well. Just watching Infinity War shows how diverse a cast can be and how much better it is when the characters are actually interesting.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Now I want Iron Jedi...

Patton Oswalt already has the framework!

 

[Kman101]

Sorry to say so but yeah and this wasn't even a 1 to 1 adaption. There was a lot here that just didn't work. And if we take a hard look at comic events which effect multiple story runs many times they do so at the detriment to said stories. This felt very much in line with that practice.

The fanboy love for Marvel is very strong. I know they "check off the boxes" and are good eye candy, and people are on a high from seeing it so enthusiasm is strong. I really enjoy Marvel but I'm not sitting here thinking it's the second coming of movies ...

 

[Mike S]

The fanboy love for Marvel is very strong. I know they "check off the boxes" and are good eye candy, and people are on a high from seeing it so enthusiasm is strong. I really enjoy Marvel but I'm not sitting here thinking it's the second coming of movies ...

It’s also a really good movie, unlike Last Jedi.

 

[Kman101]

It’s also a really good movie, unlike Last Jedi.

To each their own

I don't have personal stakes in either. I love both franchises a lot but I'm not "into" them (I wouldn't be considered a "superfan" of either but I know enough and love them enough to be a 'fan' of them, if that makes sense, lol). I think they're both good movies. It just depends what you're looking for and if they went in the direction you wanted them to go in (and it sounds like Infinity War did and LJ didn't for many). I'm not exactly thrilled with Last Jedi but there's a lot of hand wringing over it (likely due to one major thing but everyone has things they don't like about a movie when they are overly invested in it) and a bit of overpraise for Marvel. JMO, of course.

 

[Cesar R M]

and just went from digging in dirt for her daily "portions" to being the most powerful existing Jedi known in the galaxy

Sounds like Anakin to be honest.

 

[Mike S]

Sounds like Anakin to be honest.

He also needed years of training.

 

[AEfx]

Sounds like Anakin to be honest.

Not in ten days. The kid didn't even touch a lightsaber in the first film. And ten years pass between Episode I and Episode II.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not in ten days. The kid didn't even touch a lightsaber in the first film. And ten years pass between Episode I and Episode II.

Time dilation. 10 days in the vicinity of Jakku is the same as 10 years on Coruscant. So, exactly the same, right?

Kathy, I'd like a writing credit in the Special Edition for fixing your plot holes.

 

[ford91exploder]

Now I want Iron Jedi...

I didn’t want to bring up that aspect because I have no problem diversifying a cast but you have to get good people as well. Just watching Infinity War shows how diverse a cast can be and how much better it is when the characters are actually interesting.

I don't care about a 'diverse' cast I care about one that makes sense for the movie, Heck most of the cast of 'Rebels' was some alien species or other and it was the best 'Star Wars' in a long time. It was pretty obvious in the TLJ that the cast was picked more for value signalling than for any other purpose.

DW LOVES Rey - did her first cosplay at the last SW Celebration as Rey, I have no strong feelings about Rey's character but let's face it for a SciFi flick I'd rather see creative aliens than SJW tropes. The Mon' Calmari and Twi'Lek were always interesting as were the Toydarians and of course the Hutt's entourage of weird and wonderful aliens.