No not at all. I love the Disney Star Wars movies and think they are doing a fantastic job with them. I don't think they are a mess at all.
However, in regards to long-term sustainability (when we are supposedly going to have a new Star Wars movie a year), I think that Marvel has already discovered a great model that would fit perfectly into the Star Wars movie universe. I picture something kind of like how Star Trek DS9, Star Trek Voyager, and Star Trek TNG were all kind of taking place in the same time period, but in different parts of the universe...but I would just add a big team up every few years between the different crews. This could be fantastic with Star Wars. They could have multiple trilogies spinning at once, with each trilogy primarily following the adventures of a single crew (with guest appearances from other teams occasionally of course). They'd just need to be creative with the marketing and naming to avoid confusion. So you'd have something like, Star Wars: Path of the Jedi, Star Wars: Red Squadron, and Star Wars: Breath of the Wookie or whatever. As long as they were different enough from each other I think they could all have success. Just an idea though.
This all sounds like a recipe for Star Wars burnout. One of the keys to the MCU success so far, IMHO, is variety, both in characters and in stories, but with these clever little threads tying them all together. With Star Wars, the OT had a story to tell. The prequels had a story to tell, even if I think Lucas could have done them differently and they would have been successful beyond anyone's wildest dreams. But I digress. The sequels have... a story? I'm really not sure what they are trying to do, and that's the problem. They *should* focus on Luke and the rebuilding of the Jedi Order, and closing out that story arc.
What we're getting so far is nothing even close to that. We're getting a Mary Sue. We're getting a Leia who apparently knows how to use the Force without any past training? And we're getting a bunch of fodder characters that we're supposed to care about but they've so far been misused and crammed down our throats. Supporting characters are supposed to mean something. Finn is a waste of a character and entirely forgettable at this point. Poe is a waste of a character and is more annoying than anything after TLJ. He could easily be a strong supporting character - A great fighter pilot who saves the day once in a while but also shows some strong leadership characteristics or tactical abilities. I think they were starting down that path with him in TFA. What did we get with him in TLJ?
A hotshot who puts personal pride ahead of all else and in the process gets half of the Resistance fighters & all of its bomber fleet destroyed.
I really thought they were on to something with Luke on the Falcon with Chewie and R2, but that proved fruitless. And Chewbacca, of all characters, may as well not have been in TLJ, for as little as he did in the movie.
Oh, but they gave us Porgs...
3 years between SW movies was a pretty successful formula in the past, as was focusing on the core story. 3 years between TFA and TLJ would have been an extremely good idea, given the death of Carrie Fisher. It would have given them an opportunity to make adjustments to TLJ in light of that. But I'm not seeing what the core story is with the sequels. And apparently Disney thinks it knows better by releasing more SW movies and more frequent SW movies. I think they're degrading the franchise by going with the one-off movie-a-year strategy (These are a money grab, period) and no cohesive overall story direction. It really feels like Disney believes, "Hey, if George Lucas can make a ton of money off of movies and merchandise, and he and Hasbro were pikers at the time, just think of how much money we can make!!!". Time will tell what will ultimately win, but in the end, Disney will make money no matter what. And sadly, that's its only goal.
I'm with @asianway here - SW movies used to be an event. Right now, I think about TLJ and Ep9 and I'm not far from "I don't care" . Maybe Abrams will pull a miracle , and I am certainly hoping he does.
I don't think they could have done a better job making The Last Jedi from corporate's point of view (this is a different statement from, "Rian made perfect choices here and there"). And I'd like to think corporate is wise enough to know that they were never going to repeat Force Awakens' money.
However, I think corporate finds itself in a unique situation when it comes to PR here. It will be interesting to see how events like the next Star Wars Celebration play out, where in the audience of superfans, there could be some of rabid TLJ haters. During the Prequel era and up to the release of TFA, Lucasfilm always had the fans in their pocket. It was the general audience that needed convincing. Now it seems that the general audience was really pleased with TLJ, but going forward, it will be the fans that need careful communication.
And as Warner Bros can tell you, when your own fan base is divided over your creative choices, it's hard to build momentum.
But ideally they shouldn't let any of this impact the creative process of telling good stories.
division among the fandom would suggest otherwise.
opinion of the movie aside, that is one of my biggest points of contention - questionable stewardship. I'm actually more disappointed in KK far more than Rian.
and i'm almost always on the side that considers artistic choices, even (and especially) if they ruffle feathers, as a generally good thing and worth the gamble, but...
anybody in a position to have done something who didn't see the inherent risk in altering 40 years of fan expectation (heck, even mark and daisy did) should have their judgment questioned -
or maybe even if there was some sort of grand artistic design or something, but i'm afraid the emperor has no clothes (eh?, eh?)
No not at all. I love the Disney Star Wars movies and think they are doing a fantastic job with them. I don't think they are a mess at all.
However, in regards to long-term sustainability (when we are supposedly going to have a new Star Wars movie a year), I think that Marvel has already discovered a great model that would fit perfectly into the Star Wars movie universe. I picture something kind of like how Star Trek DS9, Star Trek Voyager, and Star Trek TNG were all kind of taking place in the same time period, but in different parts of the universe...but I would just add a big team up every few years between the different crews. This could be fantastic with Star Wars. They could have multiple trilogies spinning at once, with each trilogy primarily following the adventures of a single crew (with guest appearances from other teams occasionally of course). They'd just need to be creative with the marketing and naming to avoid confusion. So you'd have something like, Star Wars: Path of the Jedi, Star Wars: Red Squadron, and Star Wars: Breath of the Wookie or whatever. As long as they were different enough from each other I think they could all have success. Just an idea though.
No not at all. I love the Disney Star Wars movies and think they are doing a fantastic job with them. I don't think they are a mess at all.
However, in regards to long-term sustainability (when we are supposedly going to have a new Star Wars movie a year), I think that Marvel has already discovered a great model that would fit perfectly into the Star Wars movie universe. I picture something kind of like how Star Trek DS9, Star Trek Voyager, and Star Trek TNG were all kind of taking place in the same time period, but in different parts of the universe...but I would just add a big team up every few years between the different crews. This could be fantastic with Star Wars. They could have multiple trilogies spinning at once, with each trilogy primarily following the adventures of a single crew (with guest appearances from other teams occasionally of course). They'd just need to be creative with the marketing and naming to avoid confusion. So you'd have something like, Star Wars: Path of the Jedi, Star Wars: Red Squadron, and Star Wars: Breath of the Wookie or whatever. As long as they were different enough from each other I think they could all have success. Just an idea though.
Having "spinoff" movies in between installments of the current sequel trilogy is already diluting the importance of the brand as it is.
Having multiple trilogies running at once would likely exacerbate the problem, especially in the international market, which can barely keep track of these things as it is.
division among the fandom would suggest otherwise.
opinion of the movie aside, that is one of my biggest points of contention - questionable stewardship. I'm actually more disappointed in KK far more than Rian.
and i'm almost always on the side that considers artistic choices, even (and especially) if they ruffle feathers, as a generally good thing and worth the gamble, but...
anybody in a position to have done something who didn't see the inherent risk in altering 40 years of fan expectation (heck, even mark and daisy did) should have their judgment questioned -
or maybe even if there was some sort of grand artistic design or something, but i'm afraid the emperor has no clothes (eh?, eh?)
Sure, but I really don't think Kennedy or Iger think any ball was dropped here. They have a success on their hands, not a record breaker, but still a very big success. If they had a Justice League response on their hands, THEN they'd start saying "What did we do wrong?"
The "divisive fan reaction to TLJ" is a wrinkle that they'll have to be careful with when promoting further Star Wars films, not unlike the "Don't say anything bad but don't say anything good about the prequels as we launch Force Awakens" policy.
I'm sure they care a LOT more about how to get the China market to respond to ANYTHING Star Wars related, rather than placating American fanboys who will come to Episode 9 anyway.
I'm sure they care a LOT more about how to get the China market to respond to ANYTHING Star Wars related, rather than placating American fanboys who will come to Episode 9 anyway.
Having "spinoff" movies in between installments of the current sequel trilogy is already diluting the importance of the brand as it is.
Having multiple trilogies running at once would likely exacerbate the problem, especially in the international market, which can barely keep track of these things as it is.
I don’t think that having multiple MCU superhero trilogies running at once is hurting Marvel so why would it hurt Star Wars? There would need to be sufficient distinction between the stories being told of course but if they can do it in the superhero universe, I would think they could also do it in a galaxy far far away that encompasses countless worlds and alien races. But again, it’s just my opinion.
I don’t think that having multiple MCU superhero trilogies running at once is hurting Marvel so why would it hurt Star Wars? There would need to be sufficient distinction between the stories being told of course but if they can do it in the superhero universe, I would think they could also do it in a galaxy far far away that encompasses countless worlds and alien races. But again, it’s just my opinion.
I’m not usually one to complain over little things, but these signs are pretty jarring. I wonder if there was some sort of incident, especially since the driver came on over the normal spiel to make it clear to stay away from the doors.
I've seen plenty of people who ignore the warnings and like to sit next to the door or lean on them.
They have a limited strength.. so probably one of these doors gave away during a curve and someone fell.. or got hit by the doors opening and closing.
This all sounds like a recipe for Star Wars burnout. One of the keys to the MCU success so far, IMHO, is variety, both in characters and in stories, but with these clever little threads tying them all together. With Star Wars, the OT had a story to tell. The prequels had a story to tell, even if I think Lucas could have done them differently and they would have been successful beyond anyone's wildest dreams. But I digress. The sequels have... a story? I'm really not sure what they are trying to do, and that's the problem. They *should* focus on Luke and the rebuilding of the Jedi Order, and closing out that story arc.
What we're getting so far is nothing even close to that. We're getting a Mary Sue. We're getting a Leia who apparently knows how to use the Force without any past training? And we're getting a bunch of fodder characters that we're supposed to care about but they've so far been misused and crammed down our throats. Supporting characters are supposed to mean something. Finn is a waste of a character and entirely forgettable at this point. Poe is a waste of a character and is more annoying than anything after TLJ. He could easily be a strong supporting character - A great fighter pilot who saves the day once in a while but also shows some strong leadership characteristics or tactical abilities. I think they were starting down that path with him in TFA. What did we get with him in TLJ?
A hotshot who puts personal pride ahead of all else and in the process gets half of the Resistance fighters & all of its bomber fleet destroyed.
I really thought they were on to something with Luke on the Falcon with Chewie and R2, but that proved fruitless. And Chewbacca, of all characters, may as well not have been in TLJ, for as little as he did in the movie.
Oh, but they gave us Porgs...
3 years between SW movies was a pretty successful formula in the past, as was focusing on the core story. 3 years between TFA and TLJ would have been an extremely good idea, given the death of Carrie Fisher. It would have given them an opportunity to make adjustments to TLJ in light of that. But I'm not seeing what the core story is with the sequels. And apparently Disney thinks it knows better by releasing more SW movies and more frequent SW movies. I think they're degrading the franchise by going with the one-off movie-a-year strategy (These are a money grab, period) and no cohesive overall story direction. It really feels like Disney believes, "Hey, if George Lucas can make a ton of money off of movies and merchandise, and he and Hasbro were pikers at the time, just think of how much money we can make!!!". Time will tell what will ultimately win, but in the end, Disney will make money no matter what. And sadly, that's its only goal.
I'm with @asianway here - SW movies used to be an event. Right now, I think about TLJ and Ep9 and I'm not far from IDGAF. Maybe Abrams will pull a miracle out of his ***, and I am certainly hoping he does.
I actually wonder how long until movies are so periodic and constant over the same story lines.. that they literally become extended TV series that want your money for every episode.