A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
First, apologies are due as I realize the posts on here are a bit all over and not my typical quality. All I can say is it has been, and continues to be, a busy and exciting summer and I am not completely engaged. But lots has been happening, both with my experiences, and in the P&R segment and I really want to engage with y'all. So, excuse the typos and if something doesn't make sense, just ask ... it may not be you!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
For me, the Pixar Pier announcement was one of the most frightening announcements made at D23 this year. The intent of Paradise Pier is to capture the spirit of the Victorian boardwalks that were once found along the California coast. Beginning in 2009, when transformation of the Pier began, the cheap, roadside carnival, Six Flags elements were removed in favor of a nostalgic, early 20th century design. I remember greatly appreciating the removal of the Man Hat N' Beach sign because it was tacky and far from anything you would expect to see at a Disney park. Although budget cuts affected additional details around Mickey's Fun Wheel, overall, the Pier was greatly improved and, I believe, transports guests to a bygone era. Yes, California Screamin' should be a wooden roller coaster, but that is another conversation for another thread.

The transformation of Paradise Pier to Pixar Pier further solidifies the shift from themed lands with attractions that are faithfully fitting of the theme to IP immersion. Moreover, Parks & Resorts is now engaging in full-out corporate branding with the use of the Pixar name, rather than theming to a specific property. Gone are the days of lands that transport us to previous times and other places with a variety of attractions. The direction of Parks & Resorts is to name areas after subsidiaries of TWDC. The formula is clearly displayed on the chalkboard, full subsidiary immersion to drive consumer product sales to targeted demographics.

Walt continues to be forgotten. Each of these executives needs to spend at least three days at the Walt Disney Family Museum to understand the legacy that is being destroyed.

All I can say would be repeating myself, Walt is simply used as a character today to sell DISNEY. He is no different than Mickey, Pooh, Ariel, Buzz, Sully,Nemo, Hulk, Spidey, Chewie and Luke Skywalker. The family made a horrible decision when it basically sold his name to TWDC and they use it to when it can help their business, and they ignore the man and his beliefs when it goes against their current business models and morals. Simple as that. I will go into this a bit more when D23 comes up ...
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Micechat's update today says they didn't announce Marvel because they want to wait until they get the Eastern parking garage project going. Is this accurate from what you have heard?

That is a large component for certain. ... As an aside, is it me or are the Micechat updates becoming weaker all the time? What news came out of that column? That a spinner will be added to an area destined for one since 2001? God, I miss Al Lutz!
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
All I can say would be repeating myself, Walt is simply used as a character today to sell DISNEY. He is no different than Mickey, Pooh, Ariel, Buzz, Sully,Nemo, Hulk, Spidey, Chewie and Luke Skywalker. The family made a horrible decision when it basically sold his name to TWDC and they use it to ***** when it can help their business, and they ignore the man and his beliefs when it goes against their current business models and morals. Simple as that. I will go into this a bit more when D23 comes up ...
But—but—there are quotes on construction walls!

"Disneyland is not a museum."
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Fascinating. It's easy and fun to look at DLP (and DCA) as the big blunder(s) of the Eisner era, but that leaves out a lot of the nuance and background info out of the discussion.

DLP was many things, a blunder wasn't one. Even DCA wasn't because it brought the resort package -- DD and the Grand. It also provided the impetus behind the uniform design signage and landscaping in the new Anaheim Resort Area. The park had issues (and let's not discuss them now), but its creation allowed all that exists now and that which is planned for the future.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Great to see you posting again @WDW1974 . I found your order of how Americans should visit Disney Parks to be very interesting. It was my plan, originally to visit Tokyo first. Now that you suggest it, Paris would be a good first foray into the foreign parks in that it would be less "foreign". If a person did two separate trips, one to Europe and one to Asia, which Asian park(s) would you suggest skipping if time was somewhat limited. I also want to see historical sites, museums etc.

That is a very easy question to answer. Without a bit of doubt, I'd skip Shanghai. Its parts, and great CMs, don't equal a great complete product. Not in the ways HKDL and, certainly, TDR's parks do.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
All I can say would be repeating myself, Walt is simply used as a character today to sell DISNEY. He is no different than Mickey, Pooh, Ariel, Buzz, Sully,Nemo, Hulk, Spidey, Chewie and Luke Skywalker. The family made a horrible decision when it basically sold his name to TWDC and they use it to ***** when it can help their business, and they ignore the man and his beliefs when it goes against their current business models and morals. Simple as that. I will go into this a bit more when D23 comes up ...
So basically Walt today is treated like how they did with Coronal Sanders for KFC and Chef Boyardee? Where despite both being real people the companies use them more like a mascot in a way to the point that some people are surprised that Coronal Sanders was an actual person.
 
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WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Sad news for Frozen in Tokyo though, I think that the Plans for Frozen are dead. Marvel isn't allowed in Tokyo.

They are not dead, just moved behind other projects in the queue.

Marvel is allowed in Tokyo, except for Spiderman and associated characters.

The OLC has no interest in Marvel attractions whatsoever. Indeed, there is no Marvel merchandise available for sale in those parks or at Bon Voyage, their version of WoD. However, if you visit the Disney Store (owned fully by TWDC) at Ikspiari, it has loads of Marvel crap ... and SW crap.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Speaking of meet and greets or "Meet and grope" as you call them. I'm having a feeling the character meet and greets at Shanghai must be very different compared to the ones found at the other Disney Parks. The only notable ones at Shanghai currently has to be Mickey and Friends and some Toy Story characters. Most of the current and some older Disney characters appear to only show up at Mickey's Storybook Express while the Castle Show focuses more on modern Disney with a few older ones in the mix?

Mickey's meet and greet always seemed to have at least a 30 minute wait. Characters like Goofy and Pluto were always out on Mickey Ave and drawing crowds. We did see Pooh standing by his lonesome once at the back of the park, which has a mini-Pooh area.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
That is a large component for certain. ... As an aside, is it me or are the Micechat updates becoming weaker all the time? What news came out of that column? That a spinner will be added to an area destined for one since 2001? God, I miss Al Lutz!

For a while Al's updates where archived and it was a great read and take if anyone wanted to relive the awful Pressler/Harriss era of Disneyland neglect. But I don't see them archived anymore. Shame. I enjoyed reading them.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
How much of SDL's crowd problems, in the park, stem from attractions with low capacity like Soaring, RR, SDMT and Tron?

Also, what was the age composition of the SDL crowds and how did different age groups experience the park?

The line up, as @lazyboy97o mentioned in the waning days of the Valentine thread, feels like a UNI park along with the heavy focus on rides for young people.

Attraction throughput is a major problem at SDL because of the type of attractions WDI builds today are vastly inferior to ones WED designed in the 60s and 70s that ate crowds (look at EPCOT's 1980s lineup versus today). Only Pirates is of that ilk at SDL. All of the attractions you mentioned are not efficient and add to that mix the fact many Chinese don't listen to instructions and are clueless about how to load theme park attractions. This results in delays and ride vehicles dispatched half empty.

As to age groups, I really didn't notice a great difference from the USA. Everything from families with stroller age kids, who mostly walk, to extended families with grandparents to 20-somethings with friends etc.

This park absolutely doesn't feel like a Universal park. But it also didn't feel like a Disney MK park either.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
They are not dead, just moved behind other projects in the queue.

I know you likely can't (although would love if you did) give specifics... but in your opinion is the Tokyo roadmap still a positive one?

That's two-fold: positive as in will the investment stream be remotely like they built it up to be 3-4 years ago (albeit delayed). Secondly do you like the forthcoming investment stream.

It just feels like a lot of grand plans have been put on the back burner. With the B&TB area being the lone hold out from far more ambitious things that were supposed to be opening already. I know we have their D23 to look forward to for some details hopefully.


I also want to know what - if anything is still the plan for SDL's intermediate future. But I'm already pushing my luck.
 

Marriedatdisney

Active Member
I would ask that the thread not spin out into a speculation as to what type of FP system will exist in 3-4 years time, because, unless you have information to share, that is all it is.

I don't post often and no info to share here, but a thought occurred while reading about the FP possible shift.

When DL first opened it wasn't a single price to get in and to ride everything. In fact the letter rating of rides reflected the level/price of ticket required to ride it (D, E, etc). I've read a lot on here over the years about how that system encouraged the investment and ultimate replacement of rides because it showed a direct funding stream for each attraction.

I'm just wondering, would a paid FP have a similar effect on management and their thinking about rides? Our family is fortunate enough to be somewhat insulated from the cost implications of such a shift but hate being nickeled and dimed. But if that system encouraged a more aligned investment strategy in attractions it could have some positives. The last 10 years at WDW have been a dry season with little change. I'd have to be somewhat supportive if anything helped even out the investments.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
That is a very easy question to answer. Without a bit of doubt, I'd skip Shanghai. Its parts, and great CMs, don't equal a great complete product. Not in the ways HKDL and, certainly, TDR's parks do.
I've only been to Tokyo and my thought was doing a nested vacation in Hong Kong and/or Shanghai. If it's an either/or proposition for just a day would you still recommend Hong Kong?
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
You do realize Universal Express Pass use to be free to anyone with a park ticket just like Disney's fast pass right? It worked just like the paper fast passes at WDW did.
Yup i used it like that back in the day...swept through the both resorts in a mattet of hours
 

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