A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[brb1006]

I don't want to repeat myself, but SDL is a park that does a number on your feet. It doesn't seem like the same company that created DL and the MK etc also built this. It is near impossible to not walk vast distances and crisscross the park many, many times during the day. There are no easy ways to get from say Adventure Isle to Tomorrowland.

I've already made comments about the castle, but Mickey Ave is a piece of work in its own right. A tiny entryway of borrowed from other parks (everything from Carthay Circle to Remy's) designs all thrown together with a theme of ... Mickey? ... old-time Disney? ... no clue to tie them together. Basically, one side is the Ave M Arcade, which is the Emporium, just much nicer. The other is largely a QSR, Mickey & Pals Cafe. The land is finished before it starts because it isn't one.

I know fanbois and bloggers love the little nods to obscure 1940s cartoon shorts. But it takes a lot more than that to make a cohesive land.

That's just SDL in a nutshell. Great details, but not well thought through or thought out.

The Gardens of Imagination are also a land largely in name only. They are the Hub, as such. But with no direct access to the castle. You have a nice carousel themed to Fantasia, largely so the PR can say 'SDL boasts the only Fantasia-themed carousel in the world' ... you have half of the Dueling Dumbos lifted from O-Town ... you have water and bridges ... you have a wall with the Chinese zodiacs themed to Disney characters largely so Disney can sell merchandise with obscure characters in pin and vinyl form ... you have the Meet Mickey experience next to a hastily thrown together Marvel Experience (a temporary 'attraction' thrown in a few years ago after the Marvel acquisition) ... you have a few QSRs and ODVs. It doesn't flow and it doesn't tell any story.

As an aside, while the landscaping in Adventure Isle is truly beautiful (and will likely be amazing in 3-5 years time), trees are largely an afterthought everywhere else, which no doubt would put a smile on the faces of men/dinosaurs like George Kalogridis and Phil Holmes. But there are loads of benches ... benches everywhere ... I may have even taken photos to illustrate this.

Going back to the Guests, what is abundantly clear very quickly is that the locals (330 million strong within three hours of the resort) fall into two groups: 1.) monied Shanghai middle and upper class (meaning they might have a second home in Bel-Air) and;
2.) poor people who have saved a bundle to travel from the hinterlands and simply have no idea what Disney is or why it is special or, most importantly, how to behave in a theme park. You can't blame them. You can only try to educate them. Disney has (how many on Twitter have laughed at the characters encouraging people to use toilets?), but it's definitely a work in progress.

When the park opens, it is near pristine. But it doesn't take long for litter to start going everywhere. People just toss stuff down. One night when getting on Pirates, we had to wade through about 6-8 inches of garbage on the floor of the boat. One afternoon, we went to see the second showing of the Pirates stunt show and the queue was a disaster with piles of trash that clearly had been moved by CMs.

And people don't listen to CMs. Watching the free for all of people attempting to get positions to see the parade was ... eye-opening ... with parents encouraging their children to do dangerous things (like climb trees and pull on electrical wiring that connects the lighting in the trees).

Let's talk show quality. There are already issues. Or one huge issue. Namely, that after a laughable situation involving a giant animatronic yeti in FL that was unable to function from almost the opening of the attraction, WDI went ahead and built a rapids ride where the climax is a meeting with a giant animatronic crocodilian mixed with dinosaur. When I rode, he was dead. Just dead. Not moving. Just like a giant head staring at you. How WDI was allowed to build another giant AA as an attraction's centerpiece when it has shown it can't keep these running is mindboggling because you know this thing cost a fortune.

The only other SQS issue we had was on our very last ride on Pirates when the Davy Jones AA, which is the most impressive I have ever seen, was also inop and simply sat at his organ with his back to the riders.

The Zootopia characters promoting good guest behavior was most notable since they had banners of the characters that I seen months ago.

 

[WDW1974]

Crowds and capacity at SDL are currently a toxic mix and one that won't significantly improve for years to come.

But if you want to pay (more than the price of a one day ticket) you can purchase a set of seven FPs -- one for every attraction that uses the service (Tron, Buzz, Soaring, RR, SDMT, Pan and Pooh), you can get out of waits or have a great head start. You can also purchase just one FP (in the land your attraction resides for about $17) if it is available. Each day, all the FPs allotments available for sale were in fact ... sold.

***Please recall the above when we start talking D23 and SW and WDW plans!

Lines were very, very long. Our longest wait was 70 minutes the first time we rode Pirates (most of the queue is inside in lightly themed rooms BUT with open air on the sides and only ceiling fans to circulate very hot humid air). Next longest was 50 minutes the only time we rode Voyage to the Crystal Grotto. We also did 45 minutes the first time we rode Buzz. Those might sound like your typical WDW or DL waits, but they aren't for me. I don't do those. By comparison we never waited more than 20 minutes for anything in three full days at TDL and two full days at TDS.

There are strange things about SDL that hit you. Most of the resort signage is for the Pudong International Tourism Zone, not SDL. You realize very quickly where you are located. The two hotels are not located conveniently to each other. Indeed, we never set foot in the SDLH, one of my disappointments. The toilets are almost all of the squat variety with 1-2 western stalls in most men's facilities. An odd choice for a modern build in Shanghai and one which tells you who this park was built for (not American or British bloggers). The BGM in the Gardens of Imagination is not Disney music or even film music. It sounded to me like American pop hits of the 70s, 80s and 90s turned into orchestral versions. There is a giant tent sale (for seasonal passholders only) set up on one of the expansion pads of Fantasyland. Really. Like if they moved the old EPCOT parking lot CM sales into the park and stationed security out front to make sure only certain people got in. I would have liked the chance to buy Grand Opening merchandise (and they have plenty left as seen by the recent dropping of a load at EPCOT) at up to 70% off too!

MORE ...

 

[asianway]

Before I move on to some of the not nice and weird aspects of SDL, I neglected another positive that deserves mention, namely merchandise.

The SDL lineup is really quite varied and isn't as cutesy as HKDL and certainly not TDR. Despite what I read, there was plenty of attraction and land specific items. Some more than others. For instance, I didn't see one item themed to Voyage to the Crystal Grotto. But Adventure Isle, Pirate Cove, Pirates, RR, Soaring, Tron, Buzz Lightyear all had plenty of stuff, some quite nice.

And they were just moving in a summer seasonal line when we got there that included everything from plush and pins to placemats and umbrellas etc.

I spent a fair amount, although nothing like my budget busting adventures on Tokyo Bay.

Admit it, you bought the Roger Rabbit neck purse thingee

 

[WDW1974]

Definitely agree about needing to get in the sightseeing, and nearly all of your sentiments. My personal regrets are Stitch Encounter (but I guess something for the kiddies), and the fact that the restaurant was so darn big. It is almost on the footprint of two whole attractions. Glad you weren't permitted to waste your time in Launch Bay. Also curious about your thoughts on how they messed with the flow heading in and out of TRON. That better not happen when MK gets it. Oh well, will just lurk in this thread until your Tokyo thoughts arrive. All the best!

I almost forgot Stitch Encounter was even in there. We ignored it. I don't hate it. I usually see it at WDSP when I can. But it is simple. .. Launch Bay intrigues me since it really is the 'attraction' Disney has been promoting for years now as the new SW thing. I never set foot in Anaheim's version. And have spent exactly six minutes in WDW's. It's largely a combo shop-IP showcase-meet-greet-and-grope. We had about 20 free minutes between FPs for Buzz and Tron and you can't really leave Tomorrowland in cases like that. We went pin shopping for a FL friend instead. I stayed out of the QSR as well because of my 'Never Eat in a Tomorrowland' rule (one that was broken in Tokyo!) ...But the entrance of Tron is a disaster and tough to find. I have no idea how they felt that was the best way to get Guests in and out. That new Tron Track by Chevy post-show thing also confuses things.

Curious ... when did you visit SDL and for how many days?

PS: Really make an effort to make it to Hong Kong next time you find yourself on that side of the globe, IMO, you wouldn't regret it. I would even skip Shanghai for it.

I love Hong Kong. I have lived and worked and had an AP there. But they were just building the new lands when I was last there, so haven't experienced two (three if you throw Iron Man in) new E-Tickets. I loved the park from my first visit in 2008, just months after Small World had debuted. I absolutely intend to return to HKDL and HK before I return to SDL and Shanghai.

BTW, SDL suffers mightily from not having either Small World or a RR. I feel those are just musts for a castle park.

 

[brb1006]

Crowds and capacity at SDL are currently a toxic mix and one that won't significantly improve for years to come.

But if you want to pay (more than the price of a one day ticket) you can purchase a set of seven FPs -- one for every attraction that uses the service (Tron, Buzz, Soaring, RR, SDMT, Pan and Pooh), you can get out of waits or have a great head start. You can also purchase just one FP (in the land your attraction resides for about $17) if it is available. Each day, all the FPs allotments available for sale were in fact ... sold.

***Please recall the above when we start talking D23 and SW and WDW plans!

Lines were very, very long. Our longest wait was 70 minutes the first time we rode Pirates (most of the queue is inside in lightly themed rooms BUT with open air on the sides and only ceiling fans to circulate very hot humid air). Next longest was 50 minutes the only time we rode Voyage to the Crystal Grotto. We also did 45 minutes the first time we rode Buzz. Those might sound like your typical WDW or DL waits, but they aren't for me. I don't do those. By comparison we never waited more than 20 minutes for anything in three full days at TDL and two full days at TDS.

There are strange things about SDL that hit you. Most of the resort signage is for the Pudong International Tourism Zone, not SDL. You realize very quickly where you are located. The two hotels are not located conveniently to each other. Indeed, we never set foot in the SDLH, one of my disappointments. The toilets are almost all of the squat variety with 1-2 western stalls in most men's facilities. An odd choice for a modern build in Shanghai and one which tells you who this park was built for (not American or British bloggers). The BGM in the Gardens of Imagination is not Disney music or even film music. It sounded to me like American pop hits of the 70s, 80s and 90s turned into orchestral versions. There is a giant tent sale (for seasonal passholders only) set up on one of the expansion pads of Fantasyland. Really. Like if they moved the old EPCOT parking lot CM sales into the park and stationed security out front to make sure only certain people got in. I would have liked the chance to buy Grand Opening merchandise (and they have plenty left as seen by the recent dropping of a load at EPCOT) at up to 70% off too!

MORE ...

I wonder if the BGM audio for Gardens Of Imagination has been uploaded to Youtube yet?

 

[brb1006]

I almost forgot Stitch Encounter was even in there. We ignored it. I don't hate it. I usually see it at WDSP when I can. But it is simple. .. Launch Bay intrigues me since it really is the 'attraction' Disney has been promoting for years now as the new SW thing. I never set foot in Anaheim's version. And have spent exactly six minutes in WDW's. It's largely a combo shop-IP showcase-meet-greet-and-grope. We had about 20 free minutes between FPs for Buzz and Tron and you can't really leave Tomorrowland in cases like that. We went pin shopping for a FL friend instead. I stayed out of the QSR as well because of my 'Never Eat in a Tomorrowland' rule (one that was broken in Tokyo!) ...But the entrance of Tron is a disaster and tough to find. I have no idea how they felt that was the best way to get Guests in and out. That new Tron Track by Chevy post-show thing also confuses things.

Curious ... when did you visit SDL and for how many days?



I love Hong Kong. I have lived and worked and had an AP there. But they were just building the new lands when I was last there, so haven't experienced two (three if you throw Iron Man in) new E-Tickets. I loved the park from my first visit in 2008, just months after Small World had debuted. I absolutely intend to return to HKDL and HK before I return to SDL and Shanghai.

BTW, SDL suffers mightily from not having either Small World or a RR. I feel those are just musts for a castle park.

Speaking of meet and greets or "Meet and grope" as you call them. I'm having a feeling the character meet and greets at Shanghai must be very different compared to the ones found at the other Disney Parks. The only notable ones at Shanghai currently has to be Mickey and Friends and some Toy Story characters. Most of the current and some older Disney characters appear to only show up at Mickey's Storybook Express while the Castle Show focuses more on modern Disney with a few older ones in the mix?

 

[WDW1974]

Welcome back!!

Now I think your quote above is largely a general recommendation of which international destinations rather than Disney parks Americans should visit. For that I absolutely agree. People embarking on their first foray internationally (especially as a relatively settled adult) are likely not made for mainland China.

My personal order is way out of whack WDW -> Tokyo -> HK (several years and several visits after Tokyo) -> DL -> Paris (which I had also visited twice before actually going to the park). But my travel has been largely un-driven and more varied than places that have a Disney park.

For people who are just interested in international travel I'd generally advise starting with Europe, dipping your toes into a relatively North American culturally friendly place like Japan (or any current or former British colony for that matter), then taking advantage of some of the wonders Asia or South America can offer on a budget with a more mid-range culture shock.

I am not sure I am reading the post right, Brian. Likely the severe sleep deprivation from all the excitement. But I would advise people who want to visit an international Disney park to start in Paris, then follow up with HK, then Tokyo, then Shanghai. In that order. But, yes, I would also advise that for the nations, regions and cities they are in as well. Paris is the easiest place for an American snowflake (the ones who think LA is scary!) to conquer. And DLP is absolutely worth visiting. I look at how it was neglected and one great thing came out of it: it hasn't been ruined by removing things or placing them where they don't belong. The only really bad example is adding Buzz Lightyear, but as we see in HK, that mistake can be rectified easily.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

How much of SDL's crowd problems, in the park, stem from attractions with low capacity like Soaring, RR, SDMT and Tron?

Also, what was the age composition of the SDL crowds and how did different age groups experience the park?

The line up, as @lazyboy97o mentioned in the waning days of the Valentine thread, feels like a UNI park along with the heavy focus on rides for young people.

 

[WDW1974]

Looking forward to see if you share the same "IP creeping in where it doesn't belong" fear at TDS.

I do... sorta ... kinda. But not overall.

 

[WDW1974]

Poor Spirit! Despite his plea, people have gone off topic in less than 3 pages and 24 hours. Please, a passing, off- hand comment doesn't mean that the discussion has to go in that direction. @WDW1974 , we both know that it's a losing battle to stay on topic in one of your threads.

It is. But anything you can do to make totally unneeded tangents or posts disappear would be appreciated! I hope you are having a MAGICal summer! And you'll be getting a PM (not about this thread) when I can catch my breath!

 

[WDW1974]

The thing is though, what really is the actual topic in a Spirit thread besides Disney? The topic is always changing, even by @WDW1974 himself.

These threads are more like a catch all thread than anything that has a true topic.

They are to some extent certainly. That is why I created them -- after talking long with MAGICal Steve. ... But it still is flat out wrong and rude when someone decides that the topic should be the MSEP's future or UNI vs. Disney or ESPN or Spiderman Homecoming's box office. Tangents should be based on the subjects being talked about ... or you'll wind up burying the news, which is fine with me. But not really helpful for those looking for it. I'm a storyteller and I am telling this tale in a linear fashion if possible (believe me, I want to tackle Disney's earnings report and dining discounting desperation at WDW, but I won't do it in this thread ... at least not fora few hundred pages!)

 

[WDW1974]

I remember reading that was their intention. They were going for fung shui or whatever.

No, that was largely the HKDL PR spin. ... This park just is largely a giant blob that is very tough on your legs!

 

[WDW1974]

You do know that TDS is owned by the Oriental Land Company which licenses Disney IP, Hence they buy what they want from Disney. Ironically OLC is building the Frozen attraction that should have been built in WDW.

OLC has no great desire for SW or MCU no matter how badly Burbank wants to push it on them. They do want the 'old school' Disney IP though

I know you get a tough time here, often brought on by your own words, but the above is absolutely true.

 

[WDW1974]

Yes I know that but you said that the push for studio IP isn't there when it is. Storm Rider got replaced by Nemo. Toy Story got put in the American Waterfront and there will be an entire land dedicated to Frozen which really dosn't have a nautical theme what so ever.

Storm Rider was a weak attraction that had reached the end of the line. It could have been replaced by something better (spoiler alert: I was not impressed by the Nemo Searider). TSMM actually fits the area quite well, nearly to perfection. I hate the attraction in all its locales, but it looks amazing in TDS. Oh, and the Scandinavian port will be just that. Frozen will be a significant part of it, but not all. And TDS always had IP in it ... Mermaid Lagoon ... Arabian Coast etc.

 

[WDW1974]

I must say that I really enjoy reading your posts @WDW1974. I'm curious to know more about the WDW FP charges that you mentioned were coming. Honestly, I'm not surprised, but I'll be curious to see just how much they plan to charge and how they're going to roll this out and when.

We are in a transition period right now ... things will be vastly different by WDW's 50th. And the first changes are very likely coming by early next year.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

We are in a transition period right now ... things will be vastly different by WDW's 50th. And the first changes are very likely coming by early next year.

If they go the route that you have to buy FPs are they going to further limit supply?

 

[EPICOT]

@WDW1974 Do you have any specifics on how paid FP will be implemented? Are we talking tiered based on hotel level or straight up x dollars equals 1 FP?

 

[CanadianGordon]

Wow. Another great thread. Looking forward to finding out more. Suspicions proving true.... Always grateful for the info @WDW1974

 

[Daveeeeed]

Storm Rider was a weak attraction that had reached the end of the line. It could have been replaced by something better (spoiler alert: I was not impressed by the Nemo Searider). TSMM actually fits the area quite well, nearly to perfection. I hate the attraction in all its locales, but it looks amazing in TDS. Oh, and the Scandinavian port will be just that. Frozen will be a significant part of it, but not all. And TDS always had IP in it ... Mermaid Lagoon ... Arabian Coast etc.

Tokyo Disney Sea is what Disney should take inspiration from for Epcot’s future. The IPs used in TDS always add to the story, to the message of the park. Since sponsorships don’t seem to be as readily available as before... it’s a smart business model to include their own brands for their park’s worldwide. Having an IP as a part of the experience (TSMM & Indy as examples) like you said were done properly in Tokyo. That balance should be what TDO is shooting for. The OLC at least still seems to realize that with their epic looking Scandinavian Port.

Quite interesting about SeaRider. There is now 4 Nemo attractions... all totally different. Simulators, omnimovers, coasters, and submarines.

Also, you mentioned that you experienced low waits in Tokyo earlier, how did you do this? Everyone says to prepare for the unbearable, albeit well managed, crowds and queues. Glad to see that you are back.

 

[JohnD]

No, that was largely the HKDL PR spin. ... This park just is largely a giant blob that is very tough on your legs!

Okay, thanks