sshindel
The Epcot Manifesto
I can attest to this to some degree. When I go to Epcot, I only want to ride Living with Land and Spaceship Earth then leave. It makes a rather quick day at Epcot if I get my way.
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A Redistribution of [Wealth] Fastpass+
- Thread starter RSoxNo1
- Start date
jakeman
Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
a lot!
Computer Magic
Well-Known Member
I think FP+ has reduced repeat rides by guests. No more getting 5 FP for TSM in one day. Even with the new adding a FP after the three are used, guests will not get the same FP experience.
But you're a nutcase who refuses to enjoy what's there because of what you wish was still there!
This is the one thing that I find a downgrade with FP+. I have ridden Space Mountain via FP 4 times in a day, but that'll be pretty darn tough to do now.
After the snarky response before, I'll give a more civilized one.
Simple logic shows that it is possible for any version of a queueless system to reduce waits. If 1,500 are going to ride Soarin' in an hour, because that's how many seats there are, the same number of people will ride no matter how long any of them wait in line. Let's assume that with no FP system, the line would be exactly 1,500 people long. That would be a 60 minute line. If we instead take 750 of those people, and tell them to go do something else (whatever they want), and tell 75 of them to come back every 6 minutes and get on the ride with virtually no wait, we will not increase the wait of the other 750 people at all. The line will be half as long physically, but move half as fast, because instead of pulling 150 people from that line every 6 minutes, we'll only pull 75 people. But the now 750 person standby line will still only take an hour. Thus, for the 1,500 people who ride during that hour, instead of all of them waiting 60 minutes each (for a total wait time of 90,000 minutes, we will instead of 750 of them waiting 60 minutes each, for 45,000 minutes, and the other 750 waiting virtually zero. We have given back 45,000 minutes to park guests.
Near Soarin' is Living with the Land, Imagination, and the Seas with Nemo and Friends, rides that can often by cycled within an hour (walk there, wait in line, ride). Thus, 750 people have been given the time to ride another attraction without affecting at all the wait time of the other 750 people who wait for Soarin'. You might argue that doesn't help at all, because those 750 people go into a standby line in front of others on other attractions, making the wait for those attractions longer. But that isn't the case for three reasons. First, some of those people will just use the time not being in line to get a drink or snack, have lunch, use the bathroom, people watch, rest, etc. Second, some will use the time to do things that do not have functional capacity limits, like see Off Kilter, play in the GM car showroom, or look at the art exhibits in WS. Third, and most beneficial, some of the rides on Imagination, Seas, or Living with the Land (or the movie in the Land) will take up what would otherwise have been empty seats. Now we have better used the time of those people who didn't have to wait for Soarin' AND used more of the capacity of the park. FP+ makes it more likely that will happen.
sshindel
The Epcot Manifesto
Hey, I resemble that remark!But you're a nutcase who refuses to enjoy what's there because of what you wish was still there!
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
You're assuming that Fastpass accounts for half of the capacity of the ride. Its actually closer to 70, 80, even 90% when things get really backed up. So if a high demand ride has a 1,500 hourly capacity, somewhere around 1,125 (75%) of the riders will have come from Fastpass.
You can't look at it as just a slice of one hour. Let's say the system distributes 1,125 Fastpass for 3:00 to 4:00. In your explanation, only those Fastpass holders will enter the Fastpass queue during that hour. But what about 3:30 - 4:30? 3:35 - 4:35? etc. The result is people don't return in an even flow of equal to 75% of the ride's capacity for that hour, they return in a higher number that would ever physically be in front of you in the standby queue. To keep their Fastpass wait time to a minimum, the merge point ratio is increased to accommodate them. So now the standby line is moving slower than it would if only the 1,125 guests were returning. So it doesn't "even out", it becomes artificially inflated.
- the standby queues are not 50-75% physically full, they're generally the same physical length they always were. Only now with artificial inflation. So it's more like this:
Besides, the data is right in the link in the OP. The major attractions have less Fastpasses entering the Fastpass queue and are seeing a reduction in standby wait times, meanwhile rides that didn't previously have Fastpass are seeing an increase. It isn't because less people are also using the standby queue, because, like in the case of Soarin'/Test Track and only being able to have a Fastpass for one of them, more people are likely entering the standby queue than before.
Doesn't matter what percentage of people are FP, just adjust the numbers and they still work. The uneven return knocks down the time saved, but if we kill half of the time saved, it's still huge. Move the merge point or do anything else, you still have people riding who didn't wait in line and less empty seats overall throughout the day. Ergo, less waiting per attraction. Standby lines only get longer, overall, if people decide whether to enter a line based upon its physical length instead of it's length in time. Not gonna be the case.
Now, it may be that compared to original FP, people are riding their favorite attractions less because they can't FP them multiple times. But compared to no FP, either FP or FP+ will reduce waits overall. Between FP and FP+, it is possible, however, that waits at popular attractions are down because of less multiple rides, but since those attractions are still full all the time, the same number of people are riding. Meanwhile, less empty seats at other attractions means better use of assets.
disney4life2008
Well-Known Member
Agreed - on July 4, 2013 I was able to ride Space Mountain, BTMR, Splash Mountain no less than 6 times between opening and closing thanks to paper FP. With FP+ I am lucky if I can do two.
If for anything FP+ has reduced my time in the parks. Once I do my reserved rides and hit the low wait attractions I am done -I refuse to stand in line for more than 30 mins. Whereas with legacy FP, I knew that I could ride multiple times - ride first get a FP, etc.
omurice
Well-Known Member
Effect= noun, as in, "This is the effect that FP+ has on the lines for Pirates of the Caribbean."
Affect= verb, as in, "I hope FP+ doesn't adversely affect the wait times for Splash Mountain."
ETA: sorry, it's the English nerd in me; I couldn't resist
There is a style exception where you may use effect as a verb, only the case of "to effect change". Why that exception is allowed I'm not sure the origin of this, but it is in some style guides. This blurring of meaning causes some of the confusion between the two words, so I try to stick with affect as the verb. But effect used as a verb still makes me flinch less than impact as a verb, for some reason.
omurice
Well-Known Member
Has any real theme park afficianado tried this advice yet? Because waiting until the morning of your visit to book at a kiosk is just the worst advice I can imagine, even if you hate this technology. Not disputing there is a lot to hate about MM+. But, my advice is to saddle up on MDE website or the app (right now website is much easier, the android app still a mess right now), and to book your choices at the very latest the night before.
If you mosey up to a kiosk at 10AM do you really want to wait twelve hours until 10PM to ride Big Thunder, or risk not getting on Toy Story or Soarin at all? After about 10AM you're not going to get access to most headliners before evening, and some not at all.
Forget about booking Frozen princesses and Mine Train day of, it is purely a fluke if you get those out of the day-of pool, because that is a small pool of FP they leave open, it is usually gone minutes after park open. It is difficult to get those two a few weeks ahead of time now. Same thing with Illuminations and Wishes, but personally I will not burn a FP on something I can look up into the sky or across the water, and see from any of a hundred directions, instead of one little area I have to stand in for an hour.
Avoiding booking FP until you walk up to a kiosk in the morning is the very worst option if 1) you love headliner rides, and 2) have any plans to experience them in less than 8 hours time, and 3) have any plans to ride a headliner more than once. You at least have a good chance at those things booking night before. I don't usually like touring commando in the park for 14 hours straight so waiting 13 hours for a 3rd FP is just crazy to me, it sounds like the "plan" of a one-day visitor who invested no real planning at all.
PS - Also note if your 3rd FP is in the evening, your options are slim to none for booking any useful 4th and 5th FP. You get the option of Tea Party or Stitch at 10:55PM.
stevehousse
Well-Known Member
Have u tried this personally? In fact, people r saying that now u can still get a FP for the TSMM and Soarin later in the day and it not be sold out until late in the evening, when before these rides would sell out by noon!
So far I have had no choice but to reserve the morning of at a kiosk and I have yet to have a time when I did not get everything I wanted at a schedule that worked for me.
Now I am not planning on doing this when I have the ability to book ahead, but booking day of is not the "Trying to walk up to BoG on 4th of July" experience that some people seem to think it is.
jakeman
Well-Known Member
We are going to need you to leave with your moderate views and evidence...
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Tears which are as nothing compared to the waterfalls of kiddie tears as I used my m&g time to embark on a two-and-a-half hour discussion with Anna and Elsa about the fine points of Norwegian Stave church architecture.
Prince-1
Well-Known Member
4.3 people ride only Soarin' and Test Track and then leave according to the Pew Research Center.