A Redistribution of [Wealth] Fastpass+

[shortcake6679]

The new FastPass+ will take the stress out of running to get FP's at the start of the day for TSM, Soarin, etc. We can sleep in and have a nice breakfast before enjoying the parks. The evening FP's is an even better use of making those FP+ reservations work for you. Spend the day at TL or BB or the pool, and come to the parks in the evening without stressing over what attractions you might be able to see. Yes, you have to do some advance planning, but it works well for our family.

 

[bugsbunny]

Funnel me not!!! Planning my movement through the parks to the minute is a red herring to improve things at WDW.

UNI spends billions to build out HP, WDW spends billions to let you wait longer for PoTC. I think that about sums it up.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Funnel me not!!! Planning my movement through the parks to the minute is a red herring to improve things at WDW.

UNI spends billions to build out HP, WDW spends billions to let you wait longer for PoTC. I think that about sums it up.

Well actually, the quoted price tag for Diagon Alley is only like 250 million. Somewhere around there.

 

[dadddio]

Well whatever. Ask any cm who had ever worked a high demand Fastpass attraction. Someone else can chime in here.

A CM working a queue is not going to be an expert on this issue, so I don't know why you are suggesting that one is dug up for this purpose.

 

[Tom Morrow]

A CM working a queue is not going to be an expert on this issue, so I don't know why you are suggesting that one is dug up for this purpose.

Oh, I must have forgotten that they're all a bunch of bumbling idiots, and people who have never worked at Walt Disney World, let alone a high demand Fastpass attraction, unquestionably know more than they do.

 

[dadddio]

Besides, the data is right in the link in the OP. The major attractions have less Fastpasses entering the Fastpass queue and are seeing a reduction in standby wait times, meanwhile rides that didn't previously have Fastpass are seeing an increase. It isn't because less people are also using the standby queue, because, like in the case of Soarin'/Test Track and only being able to have a Fastpass for one of them, more people are likely entering the standby queue than before.

Right there is where your logic went sideways. You assume that the people who used to ride the ride four times with FPs are now riding it once with a FP+ and then waiting in the SB line for their other three rides. Not only would a normal person just not do that, but the numbers show that they are not doing it. If people were typically waiting standby even though they rode with FP+, then the SB times would not have decreased.

 

[Quinnmac000]

It doesn't lower any time spent waiting in line because instead of waiting in that one line for an extra 30 minutes you will stand in 3 other lines for an extra 10 minutes. In essence nothing has changed just be put into smaller increments

 

[Tom Morrow]

Right there is where your logic went sideways. You assume that the people who used to ride the ride four times with FPs are now riding it once with a FP+ and then waiting in the SB line for their other three rides. Not only would a normal person just not do that, but the numbers show that they are not doing it. If people were typically waiting standby even though they rode with FP+, then the SB times would not have decreased.

No, that isn't what I said. I never said they previously rode Test Track 4 times with Fastpass, because that wasn't possible in one day unless you were scamming with a GAC (which did make up a big chunk of the riders, but that's for another thread). I'm saying they're now riding Test Track or Soarin' once with their Fastpass and waiting in the standby line in the other, or just skipping it for another day, not multiple times for either.

 

[dadddio]

Except focusing on your individual slice of time is exactly why his explanation doesn't quite work. Yes, in theory and on paper you can explain Fastpass in a way that it evens out the standby wait time and doesn't artificially inflate it - but as stated, there are many, many variables to factor in and it does not play out in real life the way the numbers show on paper. If the system perfectly balanced the standby wait time, the FP/standby merge ratio would never have to increase from it's 1:4 standard, but they do, frequently, often for hours at a time. If one gets in a standby line posted at 45 minutes, and while in line a massive surge of Fastpasses show up (which also happens frequently especially after downtimes), and they spend 30 minutes doing a 1:10 standby:FP merge ratio, that wait time is no longer 45 minutes, its now artificially increased.

I know I'm not going to change your mind though.

I would argue that that increase isn't artificial. It's a natural result of the system. It also isn't evidence that anything is broken. The SB line is simply being a Stand By line, as it should be.

 

[dadddio]

Oh, I must have forgotten that they're all a bunch of bumbling idiots, and people who have never worked at Walt Disney World, let alone a high demand Fastpass attraction, unquestionably know more than they do.

Your sarcasm doesn't do anything to prove your argument. People who have never worked a high demand ride queue at WDW will not know how to do the specifics of those CMs jobs, but that doesn't mean that those CMs are experts on anything beyond performing the specific tasks assigned to them.

 

[dadddio]

No, that isn't what I said. I never said they previously rode Test Track 4 times with Fastpass, because that wasn't possible in one day unless you were scamming with a GAC (which did make up a big chunk of the riders, but that's for another thread). I'm saying they're now riding Test Track or Soarin' once with their Fastpass and waiting in the standby line in the other, or just skipping it for another day, not multiple times for either.

It was certainly possible to ride these rides multiple times with FPs. It no longer is. Those people who rode multiple times with FPs are not riding them multiple times. This pushes down the SB times.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Your sarcasm doesn't do anything to prove your argument. People who have never worked a high demand ride queue at WDW will not know how to do the specifics of those CMs jobs, but that doesn't mean that those CMs are experts on anything beyond performing the specific tasks assigned to them.

One of those tasks being merging the Fastpass and Standby queues. Its insulting to suggest that every single cast member working these positions, whom have seen it from every angle, every type of situation and demand level, is still less experienced than knowledgeable than people who only ever observe the traffic flow in little snippets. Yeah, there are those that don't think about anything beyond what they're instructed to do, but most are more aware than that.

It was certainly possible to ride these rides multiple times with FPs. It no longer is. Those people who rode multiple times with FPs are not riding them multiple times. This pushes down the SB times.

Not with Test Track or Soarin'. If you wanted to ride them more than once with a Fastpass, you would have to arrive early, grab a Fastpass first thing, and be restricted for 2 hours until you could get another one. You would at best get 3 before they ran out, and probably very few people ever did that.

 

[arko]

Funnel me not!!! Planning my movement through the parks to the minute is a red herring to improve things at WDW.

UNI spends billions to build out HP, WDW spends billions to let you wait longer for PoTC. I think that about sums it up.

how was it any different under the old system where you had to run from ride to ride and where if you didn't arrive by a certain time for some rides you got no fastpass at all. I much prefer knowing when I arrive that I don't have to plan my movements to ensure getting a fastpass and I can arrive when I want. As someone who used to use a GAC and now uses the DAS, I can say that our use of the DAS has dropped to maybe one ride a day if at all. Also in most cases we only plan our FP's the night before.

 

[natatomic]

A CM working a queue is not going to be an expert on this issue, so I don't know why you are suggesting that one is dug up for this purpose.

Yeeaaaahhhh...I'm not seeing how a person who is working an attraction 8+ hours a day, 5+ days a week in all positions (including queue positions) wouldn't have first-hand, practical knowledge of how one system affected the average wait time compared to a different system. I don't care what genius sat down in some air conditioned room in an office miles and miles away from an attraction and came up with a precise formula for each system of FP and their theoretical impacts on wait times. Those numbers may be black and white, but throw humans into the mix with their pesky "plans" and "opinions" and "desires," and the theoretical results will very rarely line up with the actual results. People who actually SEE the impact day in and out (hourly button pushers, coordinators, managers*...anyone at a particular attraction) will have more knowledge of that attraction than anyone.

*Well....a few managers, anyway.

 

[dadddio]

Of course you are right. The people in the trenches always know more and could run a corporation better than the suits in their ivory towers with their MBAs. Of course, none of that is actually true except in the fantasies of the front line employees. Those CMs working the queues may feel that they are more or less busy than before, but they wouldn't know absolutely for sure since they would be comparing apples and oranges given differing policies and procedures relative to the conversion between FP and FP+. This is especially true for those attractions which didn't even previously have FPs. If the CM is correct that he/she is more or less busy, he/she still wouldn't have a reference to know specifically how much the change is and whether it was caused by FP+ or any other factor! the most obvious being that you can't simply compare this Friday shift to last Friday's or even a year ago Friday's and attribute the change to one factor such as FP+. It is a much more complicated calculus than a CM being busy, or not.

But sure, you must be correct. Education and management experience is a scam.

 

[dadddio]

Over the years, I've heard a number of people suggest that MBAs are useless; unnecessary. Those people generally had two things in common: they didn't have an MBA or any advanced degree and they couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag.

 

[dstrawn9889]

this thread = Academic. WDW is a FP+ community now. there is no going back to the old times, why are we even fighting this out. you used to ride SM 4 times in a day? Good for you, it wont happen again unless you stand in SB for two of those times. no need to fight over it. as the instructor sent with a new software system told the old farts at my last company, 'there are three options, 1. you can Quit, 2. you can Get with the program, or 3. You can die. At this juncture, i can help with all three.'

 

[Brer Rabbit 33]

I agree, but I wish they'd just try for one month without any fastpass. Just see what's happen

 

[Matt_Black]

Over the years, I've heard a number of people suggest that MBAs are useless; unnecessary. Those people generally had two things in common: they didn't have an MBA or any advanced degree and they couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag.

Bill Gates, David Geffen, and Steve Jobs all dropped out of college.

 

[dadddio]

Bill Gates, David Geffen, and Steve Jobs all dropped out of college.

The fact that these three people didn't complete their degrees doesn't change my point, since they don't (or didn't) apparently go around bad mouthing people with advanced degrees. Instead, these three leaders recognize(d) the value of education.