A Redistribution of [Wealth] Fastpass+

[GeneralZod]

It's called a joke. But thanks for taking time out of your busy day and writing your thought provoking words of wisdom. When I do see it we can compare notes.

Also Affleck sucked as Daredevil.

I was just giving you a hard time and I agree about Daredevil; however, anyone would have sucked in that poor translation.

 

[Prince-1]

I was just giving you a hard time and I agree about Daredevil; however, anyone would have sucked in that poor translation.

Agreed on the Daredevil movie. Hopefully the Netflix show will be better.

 

[Tom Morrow]

So some numbers I would like to see are the new ratios of Fastpass to standby. Not what the cast is instructed to merge, but the actual usage of each queue. For instance, is Spaceship Earth's wait time longer because of all the Fastpasses that weren't there before? Or because people can't Fastpass Soarin and Test Track as easily, are they just riding more attractions to fill up time?

 

[Captain Neo]

Is old fast pass still there or did they get rid of it? IMO when Fastpass was introduced it really screwed up the flow of lines and "standby" wait times became absurd.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Is old fast pass still there or did they get rid of it? IMO when Fastpass was introduced it really screwed up the flow of lines and "standby" wait times became absurd.

Old Fastpass is all gone and most of the machines are removed already.

 

[MichWolv]

I know much adieu was made about FP+ not being able to increase capacity in response to Rasolu's statement that it had, but this suggests to me that it can increase practical capacity (but not theoretical capacity).

Say, for example, that park-wide theoretical capacity is 30,000 guests (totally made up number--obviously wrong), a number that consists of attractions, queues, gift shops--basically everywhere that Disney will count as "occupied" by guests. Let's also say that 1,000 of that is for Living with the Land, an attraction that never fully utilized its theoretical capacity. This would thus reduce the park's practical capacity, because people weren't going there and it was not operating at <100% efficiency, so it was below its theoretical capacity.

I guess the question, then, is whether capacity during peak times (for phased closing purposes) is determined by practical or theoretical capacity?

Disclosure: I know very little about statistics--just enough to be dangerous, so I could have missed something very basic. I'm also *not* defending FP+ as a legitimate means of "increasing" park capacity.

You have it correct, Tom. And that's exactly what FP+ is doing -- reducing the incidence of empty seats on attractions. If there are enough seats on attractions for 5,000 people to be on an attraction at the same time, but 1,000 of the seats are empty, that is making poor use of capacity. If FP+ can take 500 people who would otherwise be in line for an attraction, and instead have them fill half of those empty seats, it's a win. A huge win. Guests are happier because they see more and wait less. Disney is happier because they can accommodate more guests without additional infrastructure.

As for phased closings, I don't know what they do.

 

[MichWolv]

Old Fastpass is all gone and most of the machines are removed already.

Which brings up the question of what they are doing with all the freed-up real estate. Obviously, in certain places (Test Track), they just remove the eyesore of a structure. But for attractions like Soarin' where there was a purpose-built area for the machines, anything useful coming?

 

[MichWolv]

This is all interesting. Of course it basically proves that Fastpass does increase the standby wait time to more than it would be without Fastpass at all, and everything would be easier and faster without it.

It does not prove that. It proves the opposite. It proves that if you take half the people who want to ride an attraction, and them ride it without waiting in line, they get to do other things instead, while the other half of the people wait in the same line they otherwise would. That is why, on the whole, wait times are down (down more at popular than they are up at less popular).

 

[MichWolv]

Also Affleck sucked as Daredevil.

The script sucked. Affleck sucked. Jennifer Garner sucked. The special effects sucked. Colin Farrell was OK, though. And Michael Clarke Duncan in that white suit was about the only worthwhile things in the whole movie.

Netflix cannot possibly do worse.

 

[Tom Morrow]

It does not prove that. It proves the opposite. It proves that if you take half the people who want to ride an attraction, and them ride it without waiting in line, they get to do other things instead, while the other half of the people wait in the same line they otherwise would. That is why, on the whole, wait times are down (down more at popular than they are up at less popular).

No. You're completely wrong. This has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum.

You don't understand the numbers behind Fastpass. You are falling for what Disney wants you to believe about Fastpass. The truth is that by using it you are able to SHOP and EAT more but you do not ride more than you would with NO Fastpass system. You DO ride less by not using it, though. But using it enables you to ride the same amount as you would if it didn't exist.

Rides have a set capacity. That can not change. With one physical line, you have a set number of people that will ride before you. With a separate Fastpass line, you have all of those physically in front of you PLUS the equivalent to 80% of the attraction's capacity that will also ride before you. The result is more people will ride ahead of you while you stand in line than would ever physically be possible with only one line.

The wait times for major attractions have gone down BECAUSE less people are using the Fastpass line than before, thanks to both FP+ and the removal of GAC. They've most likely increased at attractions like SSE because people are using their Fastpasses for it rather than just riding Test Track, Soarin', and leaving.

 

[MichWolv]

No. You're completely wrong. This has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum.

You don't understand the numbers behind Fastpass. You are falling for what Disney wants you to believe about Fastpass. The truth is that by using it you are able to SHOP and EAT more but you do not ride more than you would with NO Fastpass system. You DO ride less by not using it, though. But using it enables you to ride the same amount as you would if it didn't exist.

.

I don't understand numbers. Funniest thing anybody has said around here in a long long long long time.

And to assert that you know what I do at the parks. Preposterous unless you've been following me around for 20 years.

 

[mgpan]

No. You're completely wrong. This has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum.

You don't understand the numbers behind Fastpass. You are falling for what Disney wants you to believe about Fastpass. The truth is that by using it you are able to SHOP and EAT more but you do not ride more than you would with NO Fastpass system. You DO ride less by not using it, though. But using it enables you to ride the same amount as you would if it didn't exist.

Rides have a set capacity. That can not change. With one physical line, you have a set number of people that will ride before you. With a separate Fastpass line, you have all of those physically in front of you PLUS the equivalent to 80% of the attraction's capacity that will also ride before you. The result is more people will ride ahead of you while you stand in line than would ever physically be possible with only one line.

The wait times for major attractions have gone down BECAUSE less people are using the Fastpass line than before, thanks to both FP+ and the removal of GAC. They've most likely increased at attractions like SSE because people are using their Fastpasses for it rather than just riding Test Track, Soarin', and leaving.

And attractions that did not have fastpass before and had low waits, now have standbys during slower times approaching those of the most crowded days. There are charts showing recent standby waits out there that show increased wait times at POC, IASW, and others that are much different all things considered than before FP+

 

[Tom Morrow]

Well whatever. Ask any cm who had ever worked a high demand Fastpass attraction. Someone else can chime in here.

 

[seascape]

Does fast pass plus make ride lines longer. Yes but with fast pass plus I am waiting in 2 lines at the same time. Therefore I do get to ride on more attractions. It also does free up more time for me to eat and shop. This is a win win. As a WDW visitor and Disney stockholder I could not be happier.

 

[jakeman]

Preposterous unless you've been following me around for 20 years.

Um...we should probably talk...

 

[MichWolv]

Um...we should probably talk...

Be careful. We've already determined I may well know your in-laws.

 

[monothingie]

So some numbers I would like to see are the new ratios of Fastpass to standby. Not what the cast is instructed to merge, but the actual usage of each queue. For instance, is Spaceship Earth's wait time longer because of all the Fastpasses that weren't there before? Or because people can't Fastpass Soarin and Test Track as easily, are they just riding more attractions to fill up time?

Not for anything, but you have a lot more people using FP+ than Classic FP, only because it is significantly more accessible to everyone. Additionally it is a rather disingenuous to say that e-ticket reservations are filling up faster because of FP+, TT and Soarin would run out of FP before 11AM on a normal day with classic FP.

No. You're completely wrong. This has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum.

You don't understand the numbers behind Fastpass. You are falling for what Disney wants you to believe about Fastpass. The truth is that by using it you are able to SHOP and EAT more but you do not ride more than you would with NO Fastpass system. You DO ride less by not using it, though. But using it enables you to ride the same amount as you would if it didn't exist.

Rides have a set capacity. That can not change. With one physical line, you have a set number of people that will ride before you. With a separate Fastpass line, you have all of those physically in front of you PLUS the equivalent to 80% of the attraction's capacity that will also ride before you. The result is more people will ride ahead of you while you stand in line than would ever physically be possible with only one line.

The wait times for major attractions have gone down BECAUSE less people are using the Fastpass line than before, thanks to both FP+ and the removal of GAC. They've most likely increased at attractions like SSE because people are using their Fastpasses for it rather than just riding Test Track, Soarin', and leaving.

This entirely assumes that the average guest's sole desire is to ride an E-Ticket all day until their eyes bleed. For some this may be a disappointment, but if you aren't planning on riding TT 5 or 10 or more times in a day, you'll probably enjoy the broader availability of choices that FP+ provides.

 

[Bob]

Not for anything, but you have a lot more people using FP+ than Classic FP, only because it is significantly more accessible to everyone. Additionally it is a rather disingenuous to say that e-ticket reservations are filling up faster because of FP+, TT and Soarin would run out of FP before 11AM on a normal day with classic FP.



This entirely assumes that the average guest sole desire is to ride an E-Ticket all day until their eye's bleed. For some this may be a disappointment, but if you aren't planning on riding TT 5 or 10 or more times in a day, you'll probably enjoy the broader availability of choices that FP+ provides.

You just have to schmooze @George . He controls the FP+ distribution from his secret lair.

 

[monothingie]

You just have to schmooze @George . He controls the FP+ distribution from his secret lair.

I have a picture of him at work

 

[Tom Morrow]

This entirely assumes that the average guest's sole desire is to ride an E-Ticket all day until their eyes bleed. For some this may be a disappointment, but if you aren't planning on riding TT 5 or 10 or more times in a day, you'll probably enjoy the broader availability of choices that FP+ provides.

You'd be surprised how many guests just want to ride Soarin and Test Teack and leave. It's kind of sad. Now they are probably sticking around and using the other Fastpasses given to them.