A Redistribution of [Wealth] Fastpass+

[twebber55]

I always call BS on the whole technology aspect of FP+...it is something new and people will have to learn how to use it just like people who switch from PC to a MAC. In the long run it'll all make sense and it will become much easier (and possibly) better than the original format.

For those that don't want to deal with the tech aspect wait till you get to the park, find a kiosk, and book your ride times that way. It is A LOT easier to do at a kiosk, and you do not have to run to all the attractions just to get a FP.

For those that don't want to do this then just tour the Park as you normally would and gripe about "the good ole days"...a year or two from now we won't even be having this conversation and things will settle in as the norm such as was with Legacy FP

plus there is someone at every kiosks area to help even if you are clueless

 

[dstrawn9889]

I just really wish that people would stop throwing the cost of MM+ around, like that money was going to fix the yeti... infrastructure costs would be pulled from reserves, probably earmarked for IT expenses to begin with... and now that they have spent all their discretionary funds, no new PC's for the Board and offices for three years. i doubt highly that a single $ had been earmarked for JII or WoL, or any other armchair pet project.

 

[arko]

While the redistribution of crowds does seem to be working, there is no doubt that FP+ has done anything but level the playing field. More than ever those that are tech savvy, understand a bit of statistics, and read blogs have a massive advantage. I felt that this last trip we hardly waited in line and successfully gamed the system.

You didn't game the system, you used it successfully. During the old system aggressive park goers who got 13 FP's a day by various means, and those who went and got a GAC despite not having a disability were the ones gaming the system.

Th advantage has shifted from those who had a lot of Disney knowledge to those who know how to use technology, and there are a lot more of those people than Disney experts.

Those complaining about the required use of technology need to wake up and look around. This isn't a Disney phenomenon but a human phenomenon. Technology isn't going away and its place in our lives will only increase with time.

 

[HolleBolleGijs]

I'm wondering how this will affect school groups. My high school, along with several in our area, takes the seniors to WDW, and seniors don't have access to their tickets ahead of time. I was able to make dining reservations without my ticket when I went (granted I think I was the only person in my class who actually thought about that), but you can't really make FP+ reservations. I wonder how the wait times are effected during periods with a lot of large groups (they usually go in March, the same week as at least five other high schools in my area) who don't necessarily have access to FP+ beforehand. Unless Disney took those situations into account already?

 

[doctornick]

It's funny that the comments on that article are saying the exact opposite: experienced, aggressive park goers are the ones who are being short changed because they can no longer ride the same number of rides.

I would be interested to see what has happened to the avg # of rides / person / day

I'm pretty convinced that FP+ has evened things out quite a bit and that more guests are using Fastpasses than ever before. The new system has tended to draw more people towards the middle/average amount of FP use.

That doesn't mean that there aren't still superusers who will more efficiently utilize the system and get more benefit. I think those users, however, are getting less advantage than they did under the paper FP system (especially compared to when Disney did not care about the time windows).

 

[millma02]

I was wondering if anyone has statistics on ride lines at park opening. For example in the old days for DHS I would make a b-line to TSM for FP’s and have the family head to RR. I am wondering when I go in Feb if I should FP+ TSM or RR and run to the other. I am thinking the line for TSM might be shorter at park opening since you can FP in advance now days. I plan on checking the wait times during less crowded times this fall to get an idea, but wanted to see if anyone has had any experience with wait times at rope drop.

 

[orky8]

I'm sure FP+ has affected wait times (both positively and negatively, depending on the attraction, as shown by the article). But I honestly think the biggest factor in lowering wait times for the big E-ticket attractions comes from when they replaced the GACs with the DAS cards. I wish the DAS cards and FP+ happened years apart so we'd really know each one's effect separately. That fact that both came about very nearly at the same time (FP+ was in its testing phase when DAS was officially implemented), means that it's not quite possible to measure either one's impact individually. Of course, DAS probably cost Disney all of fifty cents to implement vs FP+'s billion-dollar+ price tag, which means the OFFICIAL stance is that FP+ is perfect and wonderful and holy and solely responsible for lessening the wait times, forever and ever amen. Or else.

Edited to add: I'd really appreciate it if someone could give me a quick 5th grade grammar lesson and explain to me when I should use effect vs affect, because while I have a vague idea, I really just guess half the time.

GAC/DAS wouldn't really explain the shift, though. We are seeing major E Tickets go down AND secondary rides go up. If wait times were down across the board, then it would indeed be hard to say why.

 

[cmoliver68]

plus there is someone at every kiosks area to help even if you are clueless

According to both CMs and Managers at the kiosks, most (if not all) help will be going away within the next few months.

 

[natatomic]

GAC/DAS wouldn't really explain the shift, though. We are seeing major E Tickets go down AND secondary rides go up. If wait times were down across the board, then it would indeed be hard to say why.

Unless without the DAS the secondary ride waits would have gone up even MORE. Plus, the secondary rides tend to not have the reride demand many tickets have, so they were minimally impacted by GACs to begin with.

 

[twebber55]

According to both CMs and Managers at the kiosks, most (if not all) help will be going away within the next few months.

really? interesting

 

[RSoxNo1]

I know much adieu was made about FP+ not being able to increase capacity in response to Rasolu's statement that it had, but this suggests to me that it can increase practical capacity (but not theoretical capacity).

Say, for example, that park-wide theoretical capacity is 30,000 guests (totally made up number--obviously wrong), a number that consists of attractions, queues, gift shops--basically everywhere that Disney will count as "occupied" by guests. Let's also say that 1,000 of that is for Living with the Land, an attraction that never fully utilized its theoretical capacity. This would thus reduce the park's practical capacity, because people weren't going there and it was not operating at <100% efficiency, so it was below its theoretical capacity.

I guess the question, then, is whether capacity during peak times (for phased closing purposes) is determined by practical or theoretical capacity?

Disclosure: I know very little about statistics--just enough to be dangerous, so I could have missed something very basic. I'm also *not* defending FP+ as a legitimate means of "increasing" park capacity.

I think you're on the right track here. They are redistributing crowds. A savings of 15 minutes average wait time at Soarin' means that 350 less people per hour are in the Soarin' queue (1400 guests per hour divided by 4). However an increase of 15 minutes in average wait time at Pirates means 600 more people in the Pirates queue (2400 guests per hour divided by 4).

Again, these numbers are estimates, but it's moving more people around.

 

[Bolna]

I think you're on the right track here. They are redistributing crowds. A savings of 15 minutes average wait time at Soarin' means that 350 less people per hour are in the Soarin' queue (1400 guests per hour divided by 4). However an increase of 15 minutes in average wait time at Pirates means 600 more people in the Pirates queue (2400 guests per hour divided by 4).

Again, these numbers are estimates, but it's moving more people around.

But doesn't this depend on the FP+ to standby ratio? If half of the Pirate capacity goes for FP+, then I would have to wait 15 minutes for 300 people ahead of me.

 

[dadddio]

According to both CMs and Managers at the kiosks, most (if not all) help will be going away within the next few months.

Just as there was generally a CM not too far away to help those people who couldn't figure out how to stick their ticket into a slot and get a paper FP, I imagine that there will be CMs who can lend a hand going forward. They likely just won't be bogarting the machines.

 

[RSoxNo1]

But doesn't this depend on the FP+ to standby ratio? If half of the Pirate capacity goes for FP+, then I would have to wait 15 minutes for 300 people ahead of me.

Yes, but it still means that 45 minute line in Pirates has more people in the standby queue than a 45 minute line at Soarin'. It's probably safe to assume that the percentage of Soarin' Fastpasses distributed will be 90-100% while the percentage of Pirates Fastpasses will be lower. But that doesn't mean that this shift doesn't help capacity in the parks.

 

[tirian]

Redistributing crowds always was a major selling point within the company.

Years ago, before HP, before Carsland, when Disney thought theme parks had hit their peak, FP+ was partly cooked up as a way to artificially absorb crowds without needing to invest in new E-tickets. Theoretically, if DVC and nostalgia kept guests pouring into the parks, why would Disney need to do anything except make sure guests were constantly being shuffled around?

The idea works on paper; too bad Disney forgot that stagnation eventually leads to boredom—especially if your competition up the interstate decides to start investing in top-quality attractions. Now we have Pandora, NFL, and eventually Star Wars; but there's also a $2.5 billion (and counting) elephant looming over the coming fun.

It's true that Disney never could have predicted Comcast's Uni bid, but about 32 years ago, Disney innovated simply because it could.

I know much adieu was made about FP+ not being able to increase capacity in response to Rasolu's statement that it had, but this suggests to me that it can increase practical capacity (but not theoretical capacity).

Say, for example, that park-wide theoretical capacity is 30,000 guests (totally made up number--obviously wrong), a number that consists of attractions, queues, gift shops--basically everywhere that Disney will count as "occupied" by guests. Let's also say that 1,000 of that is for Living with the Land, an attraction that never fully utilized its theoretical capacity. This would thus reduce the park's practical capacity, because people weren't going there and it was not operating at <100% efficiency, so it was below its theoretical capacity.

I guess the question, then, is whether capacity during peak times (for phased closing purposes) is determined by practical or theoretical capacity?

Disclosure: I know very little about statistics--just enough to be dangerous, so I could have missed something very basic. I'm also *not* defending FP+ as a legitimate means of "increasing" park capacity.

 

[wilkeliza]

I'm wondering how this will affect school groups. My high school, along with several in our area, takes the seniors to WDW, and seniors don't have access to their tickets ahead of time. I was able to make dining reservations without my ticket when I went (granted I think I was the only person in my class who actually thought about that), but you can't really make FP+ reservations. I wonder how the wait times are effected during periods with a lot of large groups (they usually go in March, the same week as at least five other high schools in my area) who don't necessarily have access to FP+ beforehand. Unless Disney took those situations into account already?

It has been working ok with crowds. They issue is only pre-booking. Most mornings I see the groups go to the kiosks and get their daily fastpasses there. Some are smart and just open the app and link their ticket once they have it in hand. If your leader is smart enough to give that to you when you are on the bus/car ride over then you can do everything on your smartphone before you even get to the parks.

 

[Bluewaves]

Effect= noun, as in, "This is the effect that FP+ has on the lines for Pirates of the Caribbean."
Affect= verb, as in, "I hope FP+ doesn't adversely affect the wait times for Splash Mountain."

ETA: sorry, it's the English nerd in me; I couldn't resist

I was engaged to a copy editor and she always used to scream at me about this and still hasn't sunk in, lol

 

[cw1982]

I was engaged to a copy editor and she always used to scream at me about this and still hasn't sunk in, lol

Lol... I feel her pain.

 

[HolleBolleGijs]

It has been working ok with crowds. They issue is only pre-booking. Most mornings I see the groups go to the kiosks and get their daily fastpasses there. Some are smart and just open the app and link their ticket once they have it in hand. If your leader is smart enough to give that to you when you are on the bus/car ride over then you can do everything on your smartphone before you even get to the parks.

Ah, okay, I didn't know you could link tickets via phone; I've never had to do that before. Problem is most high school students probably won't even think about Fastpass reservations. While it's totally a "me thing" to do, I'm not like most of my classmates haha.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Redistributing crowds always was a major selling point within the company.

Years ago, before HP, before Carsland, when Disney thought theme parks had hit their peak, FP+ was partly cooked up as a way to artificially absorb crowds without needing to invest in new E-tickets. Theoretically, if DVC and nostalgia kept guests pouring into the parks, why would Disney need to do anything except make sure guests were constantly being shuffled around?

The idea works on paper; too bad Disney forgot that stagnation eventually leads to boredom—especially if your competition up the interstate decides to start investing in top-quality attractions. Now we have Pandora, NFL, and eventually Star Wars; but there's also a $2.5 billion (and counting) elephant looming over the coming fun.

It's true that Disney never could have predicted Comcast's Uni bid, but about 32 years ago, Disney innovated simply because it could.

It worked on paper assuming all attractions were equal. They aren't. It also worked if 3 of the 4 parks had an appropriate attraction lineup to support it. What's ironic is that Disneyland DCA are far better equipped to handle FP+ with just their existing lineup of Fastpass+ attractions. But cooler heads are prevailing over there where they understand that this isn't that great a plan.