A Good Read ...

[WildcatDen]

as a lover of both the franchise and the new film, I hope that doesn't happen!

Always nice to know you share the love of the Muppers. Been a Beaker fan as long as I can remember. Even got a Beaker plush from the kids this past Christmas. And yes, I did mean to spell it MUPPERS. A joke from a previous WDW itenerary. . .

Always a pleasure to read our stuff and suffer your insight, even though some will take it as an attack. God Bless and fasten your seatbelt. . .

 

[lazyboy97o]

The problem with Iger is his obsession with content distribution. He views the parks and much of The Walt Disney Company as distributors, not creators. He wants to be more Charles Mintz and less Walt Disney.

And seriously Lee, your complaints are "profit"? Of course they are building things for profit! Who runs a company with no thought of profit?! Disney tries to do most things with the idea that they can make something amazing that also produces profit. What is wrong with that? So what if they tear out River Country and build a DVC resort? River Country is rotted away and a beautiful hotel on the lake is a great addition. Who cares if its DVC or not? Either way as a regular guest I can pay to stay there if I want to shell out for it.

Being for-profit does not dictate that Walt Disney World must utilize the highly fractured business unit system that is currently being employed, and not the Resort's original business structure. From a fiscal point of view, Walt Disney World is much more of a non-entity these days, being more of a term to describe several hundred businesses that share a geographic proximity.

There is almost no room for the "little things" that fill out the experience and make it more complete, more "magical" and more "Disney." Those things were created because the made the large whole a better experience, but now since they do not themselves make money they have largely been discarded.

 

[ttalovebug]

The problem with Iger is his obsession with content distribution. He views the parks and much of The Walt Disney Company as distributors, not creators. He wants to be more Charles Mintz and less Walt Disney.


Being for-profit does not dictate that Walt Disney World must utilize the highly fractured business unit system that is currently being employed, and not the Resort's original business structure. From a fiscal point of view, Walt Disney World is much more of a non-entity these days, being more of a term to describe several hundred businesses that share a geographic proximity.

There is almost no room for the "little things" that fill out the experience and make it more complete, more "magical" and more "Disney." Those things were created because the made the large whole a better experience, but now since they do not themselves make money they have largely been discarded.

The problem is, I doubt the suits realize just how much the "little things" add. This isn't something that can be measured by facts and polls, or could ever be figured scientifically, but makes all the difference in terms of guest experience, and that's what keeps people coming back. Most of what we "gloom and doomers" complain about on the web are, when put in perspective, little things- but they're things that make you feel more like a guest whose loyalty and business is appreciated. When the little things are missing, you start to feel like a statistic, one more cow in the herd, being sucked dry with higher prices for a lesser product. You don't feel like a "guest"- you start to feel like a sucker. And if you feel like a sucker, you might not want to come back, and visit Hogwarts instead. The little things do make the company money- they just can't see the direct result.

As for what Disney's doing right- it's kind of hard to applaud selective bush-trimming and the removal of a storyline in the Safari when there's a decaying Splash Mountain, the xpass idea, and the overall decline in guest experience for the sake of greed. Profit and greed are two very different things. I'm not saying the good doesn't exist, but the frustrating things tend to overshadow them greatly.

And I'm complaing because I LOVE the company, or rather, what it could and should be.

 

[WDW1974]

Please, elaborate on that statement. Tell us exactly what Iger is doing to "save the company".

You know, when I saw my thread had some new life I was hoping for something intelligent ... but I guess someone's on spring break.

I wonder what the 2 1/2 pages of posts are gonna be about ... do I just head to bed or read them?

~Giddy over trip plans (many that do NOT include WDW) so I will read!~

 

[WDW1974]

Well he made the smartest move of all which was to save the Pixar deal!

Something ANYONE and I do mean ANYONE with a modicum of intelligence would have done. He should and does get credit for that.

But buying creativity isn't the same as generating it yourself, either.

Also, I don't know how you guys continue to knock everything that is happening at WDW or with the Disney company. Its one thing to not like certain things, but to always have something negative to say makes all your opinions invalid.

Why? Why is speaking the truth so troubling to you? And what guys are you talking about (I am sure I'm one, but I'd like at least another 4-5 names to make sure they're getting the haters newsletter!:drevil::king

Why ... actually how does raising legit issues and points that happen to be negative make any opinions invalid?

I guess that means everything Disney Social Media puts out is invalid because it all is so MAGICal, right? What about blogging and podcasters who never say a bad word about Mickey's operation?

He also has been making huge improvements over at WDW! I just saw a photo someone posted of overgrown foliage being cutback on the shores of Bay Lake. Seriously?! Now that is paying attention to the details!

But, hey, I'll play ... now we can blame him for massive defoliation of the MK since he took over. Trees? Why would you want trees in subtropical Central FLA?:brick:

We're also getting the entire MK repainted from top to bottom. A whole new Fantasyland ( and whats really important is that they listened to the complaints that its original plan was too girl heavy and they changed it! ) that looks great.

The MK has been neglected for many years and for the last seven, Bob Iger has been in charge of the entire company. He ain't out with a paint brush, anymore than he's cleaning up some wild Florida growth along Bay Lake.

Fantasyland is not all new (look at DL circa 1982-84 if you want to see a whole new land). And while I agree it looks great, I feel it is far too little and too uninspired vs what UNI is doing up the road.

They went in and cleaned up the leftover mess that was the Legendary Years of Pop Century. Would have been much easier to just demo and leave it as dirt. And we've also heard very strong rumors of the demo of River Country to be replaced by a resort. Again, they could just leave it to rot, or just demo it all together, but it would seem they aren't doing that. It shows that they know where the "problem areas" are at WDW and are taking the steps to fix it.

They are adding the Animation Motel because they saw one area they weren't serving well with their menu of lodging options (large families who couldn't afford or weren't interested in DVC). It's a very cheap project that will give them more rooms to fill.

And RC??!! Seriously, you wanna go there ... it's been left to rot since 2001 (that's 10 1/2 years of nothing) ... it has gone back to nature and is a health hazzard and danger now ... and they are still too cheap to do anything ... that's why you see GF DVC going up now as it was moved ahead in the queue. RC will likely be in the same state in five years that it is now. That is sickening.

We're also getting a huge expansion at AK. Now I don't agree with the choice of Avatar at all, but again, they listened to the fans on New Fantasyland so I don't see why they would completely ignore us on Avatar. Hell, even Martin mentioned that Disney is looking again at a way to get the Yeti moving. Lets not also forget Kilimanjaros safari, which everyone hates the stupid poacher ending with the crappy Little Red, and guess what, they are fixing that too!

Yeah, Avatar. :snore::snore::snore: ... Did I miss something? :snore: Oops, keep nodding off.

These are just off the top of my head! Im sure if I sat and thought some more, I could go on and on! The whole doom and gloom, TDO is destroying everything stuff is getting lame. You all sound like a bunch of disgruntled employees who were fired and can't get over it years later.

~Did I really just answer this? And will it be here tomorrow even though there is NOTHING objectionable here?~

 

[WDW1974]

Nobody knocks everything.

I try ... did I mention I didn't really like the tee you wore Friday night?

I'm the first to admit that the good outnumbers the bad.
Perhaps that's what makes the bad stand out.

Pixar, good move. Marvel, good move. Building out the DCL, good move. Expanding AK, good move. Salvaging Legendary Years, good move. Good slate of films this year, good move. Expanding into mainland China, good move. Fixing the mess at DCA, good move.

There, that's just off the top of my head.

I'll agree with all except Marvel. I still think it is a VERY bad fit for Disney and when others from studios (Sony, FOX) to theme parks (IOA) control your major properties and you can do (blank) about it ... all after paying over $4 billion, I just think it was bad move. A desperation one.

I also think the films this year may prove problematic ... John Carter is being set up to fail by Rich Ross himself for two reasons insiders in LA tell me: 1.) because it can be blamed on D-I-C-K Cook and 2.) because Pixar wants in on the live action game and Burbank doesn't want the E-ville gang to be making live action flicks. FWIW, I think this film is going down in flames. There is absolutely no buzz on it nor has there been. ... Brave looks like typical Pixar quality, but some are worried the Cars2 effect plus having a female heroine will equal rather tepid BO. Avengers holds no interest to me (especially with another Nolan Batman film coming out) and Disney has to pay a significant slice of change to Viacom, which was originally slated to distribute the film.

But, that said, they still don't get a pass when they screw something up. Mistakes should be pointed out right alongside the good moves.

I feel there are so many people that will point out the good, I'm not needed for that (even if I still do so to be fair). ... This company and WDW in particular need tough love or else this decade of decline will become decades of decline and we'll stop caring and visiting and for lifelong fans, I think that would be very tragic.

No. We sound like fans who care, and who hold our favorite company up to the highest of standards.

Their own standards, buddy.

~Can't you do it yourself?!~

 

[WDW1974]

Always nice to know you share the love of the Muppers. Been a Beaker fan as long as I can remember. Even got a Beaker plush from the kids this past Christmas. And yes, I did mean to spell it MUPPERS. A joke from a previous WDW itenerary. . .

Very happy to see the film win an Oscar for best song Sunday.

Always a pleasure to read our stuff and suffer your insight, even though some will take it as an attack. God Bless and fasten your seatbelt. . .

Thanks. I just hope the thread is still here tomorrow ... someone has a bit of a quick trigger sometimes.

A heated thread shouldn't mean a thread that ceases to exist.

Passionate discussion is actually good for a fan site, otherwise you have either drivel or death ...

~Wonder how the big man is feeling about his boards?~

 

[HMButler79]

Fascinating about John Carter. I wonder if it will truly be Iger's "Treasure Planet Moment". Iger is OBSSESSED with protecting Ross.

 

[The Mom]

Let's leave the personal attacks out of the discussion - along with snide remarks and all of the "you're wrong and hateful/stupid/ignorant/sniffing pixie dust/just a doom and gloomer" remarks when someone disagrees with your opinion.

 

[Fractal514]

I think purchasing Marvel was a smart move. Yes there are problems with the deal, but long term I think it will pay off. And the notion that it doesn't fit with Disney's overall feel? That's exactly WHY they bought it, to broaden their appeal.

Also, I totally get not being interested in the Avengers movie, but it just might be the biggest film of the entire summer. If not the biggest, at least one of them.

 

[imagineer boy]

I'll agree with all except Marvel. I still think it is a VERY bad fit for Disney and when others from studios (Sony, FOX) to theme parks (IOA) control your major properties and you can do (blank) about it ... all after paying over $4 billion, I just think it was bad move. A desperation one.

Agreed 100%.

I also think the films this year may prove problematic ... John Carter is being set up to fail by Rich Ross himself for two reasons insiders in LA tell me: 1.) because it can be blamed on D-I-C-K Cook and 2.) because Pixar wants in on the live action game and Burbank doesn't want the E-ville gang to be making live action flicks. FWIW, I think this film is going down in flames. There is absolutely no buzz on it nor has there been. ... Brave looks like typical Pixar quality, but some are worried the Cars2 effect plus having a female heroine will equal rather tepid BO. Avengers holds no interest to me (especially with another Nolan Batman film coming out) and Disney has to pay a significant slice of change to Viacom, which was originally slated to distribute the film.

A lot of people I've talked to have said they think John Carter looks terrible. And like you said, there's little hype for it. I think we definately have a bomb on our hands.

Brave looks good, but I'm afraid the plot looks rather cliche. It just looks like the typical "girl wants to fight, but can't because society tells her to wear dresses and she proves everyone wrong in the end" story. I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[janoimagine]

I also think the films this year may prove problematic ... John Carter is being set up to fail by Rich Ross himself for two reasons insiders in LA tell me: 1.) because it can be blamed on D-I-C-K Cook and 2.) because Pixar wants in on the live action game and Burbank doesn't want the E-ville gang to be making live action flicks.

Very interesting that Pixar is wanting to advance into live action but it makes sense, you have clearly proven yourself in animation, now you want a greater challenge.

Whoever is in charge of marketing for John Carter should be replaced immediately, I am surprised Andy Stanton isn't furious the way they built the trailers and marketed the film .. they give you no insight into what the film is actually about ... and the best trailer thats out their is on you tube and is fan made from footage the studios have released. It's a joke, and its truly sad when you consider that this series inspired some of the great sci-fi flicks of today. It blows my mind that the suits have ego's so big that they are willing to make their own studio take a 400 million dollar bath to discredit one another.

 

[janoimagine]

A lot of people I've talked to have said they think John Carter looks terrible.

The problem is it shouldn't ... they are great books and have inspired generations of film makers to make some of the great science fiction films of today ... but you have no clue what the story is, what it is about, or why you have a guy in a loin cloth running around on a red planet with aliens? Seriously ... did a monkey cut that trailer together??? I read the books in school, and when I saw the trailer for the first time I had the look on my face ... it just left me shaking my head.

Google the John Carter fan trailer and it should be in the top 5 results on youtube, check it out ... at least then people will actually know what the movie is about and can make an educated decision as to whether or not it would be something they might like.

 

[Uncle Lupe]

Wow that's a multi platform conglomerate

 

[WDW1974]

A lot of people I've talked to have said they think John Carter looks terrible. And like you said, there's little hype for it. I think we definately have a bomb on our hands.

The trailers are godawful ... and many people who aren't into sci-fi have no idea of the history of the source material.

The marketing is just bad and is doing nothing to raise buzz. This could very well turn into this year's Prince of Persia or Sorceror's Apprentice ...and I have a lot of faith in Andrew Stanton as a film-maker so who do you blame?

Brave looks good, but I'm afraid the plot looks rather cliche. It just looks like the typical "girl wants to fight, but can't because society tells her to wear dresses and she proves everyone wrong in the end" story. I hope I'm wrong though.

Yeah, that's what I'm hearing. Disney already did a great job with that whole theme with 1998's Mulan (a truly great film that was made in FLA and doesn't get the props it deserves).

I think with Iger, the only film that he likes is the Avengers. He loves Marvel's BRAND and is giddy over actually releasing one of their films. I have zero interest. I still haven't seen Captain America (which I did have interest in) and Thor (which I didn't).

~Wreck It Ralph ... that's the wild card!~

 

[WDW1974]

Very interesting that Pixar is wanting to advance into live action but it makes sense, you have clearly proven yourself in animation, now you want a greater challenge.

Whoever is in charge of marketing for John Carter should be replaced immediately, I am surprised Andy Stanton isn't furious the way they built the trailers and marketed the film .. they give you no insight into what the film is actually about ... and the best trailer thats out their is on you tube and is fan made from footage the studios have released. It's a joke, and its truly sad when you consider that this series inspired some of the great sci-fi flicks of today. It blows my mind that the suits have ego's so big that they are willing to make their own studio take a 400 million dollar bath to discredit one another.

You know I could go on about why this is, but the bottom line is it's simply the business ... and there's no business like it. No business at all (c'mon fanbois, let's sing!:lol

I just saw a teaser for a TV show that a friend of mine is in ... he is a two-time Emmy winner, a Broadway-trained actor of tremendous talent and he gets paid $100,000 per episode to actually ... well, work. The same company pays Snooki the same $100,000 an episode to just be her normal white trash self on Jersey Shore (no skills required, although I think she's adept at a few we can't talk about on a family-minded site such as this!:zipit

So ... really the best answer to why a Studio head would work against one of his tentpole releases is simply that IS THE BUSINESS.

~Everything about it is NOT appealing ...~

 

[WDW1974]

OK ... I gots to start backing up my posts because I may just be a rube, but I have no idea what warranted editing the last couple of posts on this thread (generally when I take a real shot, I actually recall it!)

~Why doesn't Mom love me? Could it be I'm not taking her to Europe with me for five weeks?~

 

[Scuttle]

I think it's safe to say JC is going to be a huge bust. If it's 1/4 as big of a flop as Mars Needs Mom I'd have to say TWDC will have to retire movies about Mars. But seriously the trailers are horrible. I don't how this can be a successful movie for TWDC. There's just no way with this budget and how bad it looks and how bad it has been marketed it will be a success.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I think it's safe to say JC is going to be a huge bust. If it's 1/4 as big of a flop as Mars Needs Mom I'd have to say TWDC will have to retire movies about Mars. But seriously the trailers are horrible. I don't how this can be a successful movie for TWDC. There's just no way with this budget and how bad it looks and how bad it has been marketed it will be a success.

The trailers look terrible... I was excited about this movie until I saw the trailers... Comingsoon.net actually gives the movie high ratings...

 

[RSoxNo1]

I'm guessing $125-175M domestic for John Carter. I think Disney is probably hoping for #s north of $200M considering the reported budget was around $300M