News Disney domestic theme park attendance now at 2019 levels with per capita spending up 40 percent

Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
bhg469 said:
I'm 43, I grew up down the street from one of the first Wegman's stores in WNY. The newest, best, shiniest Publix in the richest areas of Florida cannot hold a candle to Wegmans.
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Rochester, HOLLAH!!

…wegmans is the best grocer in the country and it’s never close. They are consistently voted that by trades (my aunt owned a couple of giant Eagle franchises) and also usually on the best “companies to work for” lists.
 
FerretAfros

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
disneyfireman said:
Folks been saying this since like what 1999. “It won’t last” People can choose not to participate in any recession. Which I agree there is. Or headed to. But there are many ways to save money for whatever one wants. Disney will not see a drop off. It’s only getting started to get back to “ normal”
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But 1999 didn't last, and it's arguably the tail end of what people think of when they imagine the peak of Disney's domestic parks. The shifts in management strategies (particularly at WDW, but also at DLR) can be directly traced to reactions to outside forces beyond Disney's control, and has rarely led to improved guest experiences.

The dot-com bubble followed by the post-9/11 travel slump had real, drastic, and immediate impacts to the parks. This era ushered in dramatic reductions to the hours of operation, entertainment schedules, food variety and quality, and countless other across-the-board cuts. Entire buildings and wings of many hotels and the entire Port Orleans complex were temporarily shuttered, Pop Century's Legendary Years construction was halted in its tracks, and River Country was permanently closed. Nearly all of the "declining by degrees" changes can be traced back to Disney's reaction to the collapse of the travel industry during this period; these sorts of changes (and certainly the frequency of them) are a considerable from the general management philosophies prior to that downturn.

The 2009 recession led to Iger's "blue ocean" strategy, where he proclaimed that the parks had reached maturity, and any potential for growth would be from increased spending rather than increased attendance. This was the logic behind WDW's NextGen/My Magic+ system, which aimed to redistribute crowding and congestion rather than increase capacity, and DLR's sharp pivot toward catering to annual passholders. This era brought us the (failed) OneDisney mindset and the bland DisneyParks branding, trying to share overhead costs as much as possible, under the impression that there was limited growth potential. Yet, as park attendance recovered with a recovering economy, little effort was made to grow capacity to match, leaving us with parks that are more miserable than ever, even during "slow" periods.

1999 is an interesting year to call out, since it seemed to be a turning point in Disney's general management and operational philosophy. Prior to that that, the goal had been to give guests as much as they could at a reasonable price. But since then, there has been a slow but steady shift toward charging ever-increasing higher prices for ever-decreasing product quality.
Javier Antonio Nisa Avila said:
To my mind, Disney havas become a luxury for rich people.
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It seems that in Disney's mind, their parks are a luxury. However, unless we're defining "luxury" so broadly as to mean anything non-essential (which would include all leisure travel), their parks really don't fit the notion; they're clearly high-volume attractions intended for the middle class. There's nothing luxurious about waiting 25 minutes to order a cheeseburger and chicken nuggets and waiting another 15 minutes for them to be ready, spending an hour staking out a spot on unshaded pavement for the parade, or shuffling through a crowded queue for a ride that hasn't seen significant upgrades in decades.

Even Disney's once-famed customer service, with it's trademark smiling, cheerful, clean-cut cast members is geared more toward mass markets than actual high-end experiences. True luxury service tends to disappear into the background, anticipating your needs without drawing attention to itself. Disney has always been an above-average option that's within reach for large swaths of the American public: Disney isn't Prada, it's not even Nieman Marcus; Disney is Target.
DisneyDebRob said:
But Disney has far outpaced most vacation spots with increased everything.
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My only hope from all this is that more and more people realize this and broaden their travel horizons. For years, a week at WDW has been more expensive than a week in Europe, and Disney's ever-increasing prices make the comparison even more stark. Combined with the noticeable decline in quality in the last few years, there the value-for-money proposition just doesn't compare to so many other destinations that seem extravagant, but are actually attainable on the same budget.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
FerretAfros said:
But 1999 didn't last, and it's arguably the tail end of what people think of when they imagine the peak of Disney's domestic parks. The shifts in management strategies (particularly at WDW, but also at DLR) can be directly traced to reactions to outside forces beyond Disney's control, and has rarely led to improved guest experiences.

The dot-com bubble followed by the post-9/11 travel slump had real, drastic, and immediate impacts to the parks. This era ushered in dramatic reductions to the hours of operation, entertainment schedules, food variety and quality, and countless other across-the-board cuts. Entire buildings and wings of many hotels and the entire Port Orleans complex were temporarily shuttered, Pop Century's Legendary Years construction was halted in its tracks, and River Country was permanently closed. Nearly all of the "declining by degrees" changes can be traced back to Disney's reaction to the collapse of the travel industry during this period; these sorts of changes (and certainly the frequency of them) are a considerable from the general management philosophies prior to that downturn.

The 2009 recession led to Iger's "blue ocean" strategy, where he proclaimed that the parks had reached maturity, and any potential for growth would be from increased spending rather than increased attendance. This was the logic behind WDW's NextGen/My Magic+ system, which aimed to redistribute crowding and congestion rather than increase capacity, and DLR's sharp pivot toward catering to annual passholders. This era brought us the (failed) OneDisney mindset and the bland DisneyParks branding, trying to share overhead costs as much as possible, under the impression that there was limited growth potential. Yet, as park attendance recovered with a recovering economy, little effort was made to grow capacity to match, leaving us with parks that are more miserable than ever, even during "slow" periods.

1999 is an interesting year to call out, since it seemed to be a turning point in Disney's general management and operational philosophy. Prior to that that, the goal had been to give guests as much as they could at a reasonable price. But since then, there has been a slow but steady shift toward charging ever-increasing higher prices for ever-decreasing product quality.

It seems that in Disney's mind, their parks are a luxury. However, unless we're defining "luxury" so broadly as to mean anything non-essential (which would include all leisure travel), their parks really don't fit the notion; they're clearly high-volume attractions intended for the middle class. There's nothing luxurious about waiting 25 minutes to order a cheeseburger and chicken nuggets and waiting another 15 minutes for them to be ready, spending an hour staking out a spot on unshaded pavement for the parade, or shuffling through a crowded queue for a ride that hasn't seen significant upgrades in decades.

Even Disney's once-famed customer service, with it's trademark smiling, cheerful, clean-cut cast members is geared more toward mass markets than actual high-end experiences. True luxury service tends to disappear into the background, anticipating your needs without drawing attention to itself. Disney has always been an above-average option that's within reach for large swaths of the American public: Disney isn't Prada, it's not even Nieman Marcus; Disney is Target.

My only hope from all this is that more and more people realize this and broaden their travel horizons. For years, a week at WDW has been more expensive than a week in Europe, and Disney's ever-increasing prices make the comparison even more stark. Combined with the noticeable decline in quality in the last few years, there the value-for-money proposition just doesn't compare to so many other destinations that seem extravagant, but are actually attainable on the same budget.
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No boom ever lasts…ever.

Or we wouldn’t have a word for them. This one is particularly jury rigged…maybe as much as the last one?

Each time people “get rich”…they remove guardrails that were there for good reasons.

No different now
 
Prince-1

Prince-1

Well-Known Member
Dan Deesnee said:
Everything thought or said about Disney pre-covid regarding Park performance is irrelevant. This is a situation we've never been in before. Trillions in debt, rates unsustainably low, global supply chains are broken (maybe irreparably).

Times have been bad before, but never like this. Things could get a lot worse. Guess we'll see.
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hopemax

hopemax

Well-Known Member
DisneyDebRob said:
It was a example. Maybe not a great one but it still proves the point that Disney has gone up more as a vacation destination then I would imagine 98 % of the places in the usa and everywhere.
You can go to Europe right now and its almost the same price as it was 15 years ago. I know because i just did it. I think we figured it was 250 bucks more. Now take your Disney trip 15 years ago and compare it to today. There is no comparison. When people say everything has gone up thats true..but some have sky rocketed.
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This alludes to one of those questions I had during the earnings call. The same factors keeping International visitation low, are likely contributing to domestic highs. First, it was avoiding the possibility of ending up in quarantine somewhere, replaced with concerns about your entire family and their luggage arriving in the same place at the same time. I have been itching to head International, and the US dollar is so favorable, but this summer’s travel has been such a mess based on reporting and anecdotal stories from friends, I’m glad we stayed home. However, I’ve been recently informed the in-laws want to take everyone to Mexico in the late winter/ early spring, and in-laws aren’t really travelers, so if the pent up demand to head out of country is hitting them, the dam is breaking. If airlines and airport operations can just get their schedules stabilized...Then what happens to WDW and its visitor spending mix?

Energy prices and exchange rates probably won't allow it to be an even swap, with every US family that heads elsewhere being replaced by a UK/Europe family returning to FL. They'll have to hope to squeeze more out of Canada and South America.

FerretAfros said:
But 1999 didn't last, and it's arguably the tail end of what people think of when they imagine the peak of Disney's domestic parks. The shifts in management strategies (particularly at WDW, but also at DLR) can be directly traced to reactions to outside forces beyond Disney's control, and has rarely led to improved guest experiences.

The dot-com bubble followed by the post-9/11 travel slump had real, drastic, and immediate impacts to the parks. This era ushered in dramatic reductions to the hours of operation, entertainment schedules, food variety and quality, and countless other across-the-board cuts. Entire buildings and wings of many hotels and the entire Port Orleans complex were temporarily shuttered, Pop Century's Legendary Years construction was halted in its tracks, and River Country was permanently closed. Nearly all of the "declining by degrees" changes can be traced back to Disney's reaction to the collapse of the travel industry during this period; these sorts of changes (and certainly the frequency of them) are a considerable from the general management philosophies prior to that downturn.
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It's clear from many of the posts that few people have memories of what WDW was like 2002-2004, and how much they threw at the wall in 2005 to get things back on track. The spending surge to celebrate DL's 50th at WDW, Magical Express, the Dining Plan, reconfiguring the tickets to make entry cheaper for those willing to sacrifice park hopping/ PLUS options / non-expiring tickets. If all you wanted to do was visit the 4 main parks, one park per day, and you bought your tickets in advance, your 5-day ticket option, dropped from $245 to $205. A 7 day ticket dropped from $336 to $212! If you wanted a ticket that included everything it did before, yes, you would pay more (although you could still add on park hopping and PLUS options to a 7-day, and the price still went down about 3% according to an old Robert Niles article). However, with the trends from all-inclusive to a la carte in travel, people were more than willing to take the option for significant savings. WDW did a bang up job "hiding" how much they slashed prices in 2005 while making it look like they were continuing to raise them.
 
el_super

el_super

Well-Known Member
FerretAfros said:
1999 is an interesting year to call out, since it seemed to be a turning point in Disney's general management and operational philosophy.
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Not really. The downward pressure on pricing goes back way further than that. Maybe you could call out 1982, when the unlimited passports were introduced as the real turning point.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
el_super said:
Not really. The downward pressure on pricing goes back way further than that. Maybe you could call out 1982, when the unlimited passports were introduced as the real turning point.
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What in the hell are you talking about? You weren’t a customer. whatever book you’re reading to make such definitive statements…it’s a bad one
 
el_super

el_super

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
What in the hell are you talking about? You weren’t a customer. whatever book you’re reading to make such definitive statements…it’s a bad one
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Riiiight. It's easier to believe that Disney was a golden goose that would have worked forever had the big evil people not come in and ruin everything... rather than realize that there were significant problems developing before that.
 
Dan Deesnee

Dan Deesnee

Well-Known Member
Prince-1 said:
View attachment 659566
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Having your head in the sand doesn't help anyone.

As for Disney, this is only bad news if you're super happy with how the parks are being ran, prices, etc. I'm not sure many people are.

Also remember that this data is always old. Parks data from a year ago might as well have been from a decade ago. Things have shifted, seismically.
 

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