News 2023 TEA/AECOM Global Attendance Report, EPCOT Sees Significant Growth

[JoeCamel]

Jrb said you would be surprised how many travel for that coaster. I mentioned I know a few who actually did travel for that. Did I ever come close to saying that everyone travels for that? Did I say it was last year they did that travel? Did I say they went back? Did I say they TRAVELED north? I was simply providing my ancectdotal evidence that some people did travel for that specific one based on how well it was recieved. Not sure why you are snapping at me on that.

Relax it's Donnie

 

[Jrb1979]

Jrb said you would be surprised how many travel for that coaster. I mentioned I know a few who actually did travel for that. Did I ever come close to saying that everyone travels for that? Did I say it was last year they did that travel? Did I say they went back? Did I say they TRAVELED north? I was simply providing my ancectdotal evidence that some people did travel for that specific one based on how well it was recieved. Not sure why you are snapping at me on that.

I agree. I think the problem is many Disney fans aren't always ride fans. They go to Disney for the IP and experience. Many don't understand or know the coaster community.

If people hated coaster parks so much none would ever hit the attendance they do.

 

[Nubs70]

if Disney was smart, they'd always plan to open at least 1 new attraction every year in at least one of their 4 theme parks

That would mean, at any one time, 5-6 attractions would be in some state of construction at any one time. This being due to the fixed capex program.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

They go to Disney for the IP and experience. Many don't understand or know the coaster community.

I go to Disney for the entertainment, atmosphere, and experience. Which is why I love Disneyland so much more. I’ll spend the entire day listening to jazz, ragtime, etc. and then of course I ride the vintage transportation (train, trolley, steamboat, etc.) and watch the fireworks.

But I used to love the coaster parks! My back doesn’t like coasters too much these days but I made the rounds to all the coaster parks!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

10,000,000 less annual than their peak in 2018 is not good.

Spin, explain, divert…do whatever…

The reality is there is no way they should not have recovered - let alone admitting attendance is falling - in the current economic climate.

They have a fundamental problem

Carry on from Ovation of the seas

 

[ChrisFL]

While I don't think USF is "falling apart", the resort overall could use more family friendly attractions for sure, and not just "for kids" either.

IOA is severely lacking in non-thrill dark rides, and now they have zero shows either, right?...Poseidon's Fury being closed along with Sinbad closing years ago and the huge never-used theater next to Marvel Superhero Island.

I mean Seuss Island has some of standard kid friendly rides and Cat in the Hat, but more indoor dark rides would be nice.

 

[Dranth]

10,000,000 less annual than their peak in 2018 is not good.

Spin, explain, divert…do whatever…

The reality is there is no way they should not have recovered - let alone admitting attendance is falling - in the current economic climate.

They have a fundamental problem

Carry on from Ovation of the seas

The recent trend isn't great and there is obviously a point where you can take it too far (and I agree that they may well have crossed it), but you will have a hard time convincing any CEO or board these days that making 1.67 billion in Q3 2018 (1.339 unadjusted) is better than making 2.222 billion in Q3 2024 with less customers abusing your facilities. Maybe they planned it, maybe they didn't, does it really matter? Either way they are going to take the later every time.

Many of us may not like it but publicly traded corporations do not run like or even value the same things they did before the turn of the century. Until that mindset changes, no matter who is in charge, we will just see various versions of the same thing over and over. The only thing people can do is just not go if it isn't to their liking anymore.

 

[Jrb1979]

While I don't think USF is "falling apart", the resort overall could use more family friendly attractions for sure, and not just "for kids" either.

IOA is severely lacking in non-thrill dark rides, and now they have zero shows either, right?...Poseidon's Fury being closed along with Sinbad closing years ago and the huge never-used theater next to Marvel Superhero Island.

I mean Seuss Island has some of standard kid friendly rides and Cat in the Hat, but more indoor dark rides would be nice.

I hear that all the time. Yeah they could use some more family oriented rides. The funny thing is how Disney adding more themed thrills than family oriented attractions and nobody complains about it. At WDW they are removing 3 no height requirement attractions for 2 that do and most don't have a problem with it.

 

[doctornick]

That would mean, at any one time, 5-6 attractions would be in some state of construction at any one time. This being due to the fixed capex program.

Given how money revenue WDW generates, that’s absolutely what they should be doing.

 

[doctornick]

Yeah, I actually know multiple families up North who went to Universal with the reason being Velocicaoster.

I have no doubt that’s true. However, my personal anecdotal experience and gut feeling about coaster/thrill ride enthusiasts is that there is a certain badge of honor with visiting many different parks and getting to ride different additional coasters. I think that’s partially why those places are successful with a high cost front if the line pass so people can go and pay a price to reduce waits for the big rides and “check off” a park.

My question though is do they become repeat visitors? Velocicoaster might get people in the door to Uni once. But I think Hagrids and Forbidden Journey and Spider-Man (and Diagon Alley!) are the types of rides that get them into the doors multiple times and creates hype to encourage others to visit via word of mouth.

I suspect the main repeat visitors that thrill rides generate are locals.

 

[Jrb1979]

I have no doubt that’s true. However, my personal anecdotal experience and gut feeling about coaster/thrill ride enthusiasts is that there is a certain badge of honor with visiting many different parks and getting to ride different additional coasters. I think that’s partially why those paths are successful with a high cost front if the line pass so people can go and pay a price to reduce waits for the big rides and “check off” a park.

My question though is do they become repeat visitors? Velocicoaster might get people in the door to Uni once. But I think Hagrids and Forbidden Journey and Spider-Man (and Diagon Alley!) are the types of rides that get them into the doors multiple times and creates hype to encourage others to visit via word of mouth.

I suspect the main repeat visitors that thrill rides generate are locals.

For the most part your post is true. There is many parks that people travel to that are based on thrill rides. Cedar Point is one, I would put Magic Mountain and Knotts as a couple others.

If they didn't create repeat visitors I doubt Universal would keep adding them. They have 4 coasters coming with Epic and Disney seems to be adding thrills more than they used to.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

I hear that all the time. Yeah they could use some more family oriented rides. The funny thing is how Disney adding more themed thrills than family oriented attractions and nobody complains about it. At WDW they are removing 3 no height requirement attractions for 2 that do and most don't have a problem with it.

bc Disney, quite famously, has a ton of family oriented attractions

 

[bwr827]

Nothing too concerning or different from what was being reported. Seems to be proof that attendance patterns ARE shifting and while fewer may be going during the summer (due to heat), it's being made up for in other periods of the year.

One thing of note tho:



It seems that, with Epcot going up, spare time was being shifted from AK to Epcot. That's not really too concerning for AK specifically, but a shot across the bow of having a multi-park setup in general. It's too costly to keep building in one park over the other, just to have your audience shift between them. No new audience is being gained. That's a problem.

No doubt the Dinoland changes will help DAK, but will that just come at the cost of losing people from Epcot again? Or DHS? What's the point?

Seems that Universal would be very concerned about cannibalization too.

With Test Track down, I bet the trend is currently lessening at Epcot.

 

[BrianLo]

Hmmm. That's an interesting point. What was the last really good non-coaster by Uni, at least in the US? I would argue Forbidden Journey and even that has been a bit.

Maybe secret life of pets? Albeit not an e ticket and I haven’t personally ridden it. Hogwarts Express is pretty brilliant (though also not an E ticket). I don’t mind Kong prior to the outdoor section being cut.

Hopefully one of Monsters or Potter hits. It would be pretty disappointing if they both wound up being mediocre. I feel like the creative team behind Epic is stronger than the team behind Beijing.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Maybe secret life of pets? Albeit not an e ticket and I haven’t personally ridden it. Hogwarts Express is pretty brilliant (though also not an E ticket). I don’t mind Kong prior to the outdoor section being cut.

Hopefully one of Monsters or Potter hits. It would be pretty disappointing if they both wound up being mediocre. I feel like the creative team behind Epic is stronger than the team behind Beijing.

Secret Life of Pets is a great choice, actually. The seating/restraints are obnoxious but it’s a well-done dark ride. Hogwarts is cute, but it is, in essence, the ultimate screen ride.

I think Monsters is going to be really good but is going to disappoint the people who think it will be HHN-level “actual scary”. And if it is genuinely scary, I would be shocked to see it last.

MoM I think has a stronger chance of ending up mediocre — my gut tells me it’s going to be a Gringotts 2. I desperately hope I’m wrong.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The recent trend isn't great and there is obviously a point where you can take it too far (and I agree that they may well have crossed it), but you will have a hard time convincing any CEO or board these days that making 1.67 billion in Q3 2018 (1.339 unadjusted) is better than making 2.222 billion in Q3 2024 with less customers abusing your facilities. Maybe they planned it, maybe they didn't, does it really matter? Either way they are going to take the later every time.

Many of us may not like it but publicly traded corporations do not run like or even value the same things they did before the turn of the century. Until that mindset changes, no matter who is in charge, we will just see various versions of the same thing over and over. The only thing people can do is just not go if it isn't to their liking anymore.

Remember that “spin” part?

Losing customers is never wise or good

 

[Nubs70]

Remember that “spin” part?

Losing customers is never wise or good

And neither is monetization of inefficiency. MOI sets up a perverse incentive.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I think it's clear people are being very selective with which parks they visit in Orlando, and most do not have the time and money to spend at all of them, or at each the same.

I'd be curious to know what % of WDW park visitors visit all 4 parks.

We did this past week, but will say that was aided by the 4 parks, for $99/day deal. If they didn't do that we would have probably done less days or done a party instead of any regular days.

So at least for us that promotion worked

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Coasters like Veloci might get fan boys online excited. But no one is going to travel around the world to ride an off the shelf coaster like Veloci with a glossy queue.

Furthermore it's not a family attraction, there will only be a certain smaller demographic that will ride a thrill coaster.

Velocicoaster was the final thing added that gave me enough FOMO to donor first Universal trip in over 20 years (obviously lots of other new stuff to experience as well). Granted, we haven't been back since (that was 2021).

Am planning a trip for Epic at some point

 

[LSLS]

I have no doubt that’s true. However, my personal anecdotal experience and gut feeling about coaster/thrill ride enthusiasts is that there is a certain badge of honor with visiting many different parks and getting to ride different additional coasters. I think that’s partially why those places are successful with a high cost front if the line pass so people can go and pay a price to reduce waits for the big rides and “check off” a park.

My question though is do they become repeat visitors? Velocicoaster might get people in the door to Uni once. But I think Hagrids and Forbidden Journey and Spider-Man (and Diagon Alley!) are the types of rides that get them into the doors multiple times and creates hype to encourage others to visit via word of mouth.

I suspect the main repeat visitors that thrill rides generate are locals.

But that gets to the bigger question. Is there ANY ride that can generate repeat customers at these price points? Or, is the most important part having the theming/feel throughout the park?