2022 TEA/AECOM Theme Index

[Animaniac93-98]

A huge dropoff for DAK from 2019 to 2022. Was the 2nd most visited park in FL in 2019, dropped all the way to last among the big six last year. Has the Pandora effect worn off? Personally it's my favorite park in Florida, but objectively, there's just not enough to do to warrant a full day. I chaperoned a school trip last April and it was skipped. Normal itinerary is 5 days with one in each Disney park and a hopper day in US/IoA, but last year I was outvoted to skip DAK in favor a second day at Hollywood Studios with all of the newer offerings there. Can't imagine my colleagues are the only ones expressing that thought seeing the latest attendance numbers.

It has gone the longest of the big 6 without something substantially new.

Disney knows this, but it will also take at least a few more years for them to add anything more on a larger scale.

Has DLP improved that much as a park?

When it comes to show quality? Yes. It also is the majority-Disney owned park with the most entertainment refreshes.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Without question, it would have been worse, but I'm not convinced the major and much hyped EPCOT redo (that has changed plans more than once) is the success Disney wants it to be or could have been.

I find it hard to figure out exactly what they are hoping to achieve with this Epcot redo at this point. It's crawled along so slowly that Guardians opening didn't even seem to be the relaunch of the "new and improved" Epcot, but rather a new ride opening in a park still heavily under construction. I guess the "relaunch", if they ever have one, will be whenever the central spine is done, but I can't see either the Moana walkthrough or Walt Sitting on the Toilet statue being big draws in and of themselves. Who knows, maybe the latter will be the new purple wall?

They have so much still under construction but so little worthy of promotion left to reveal that I can't imagine how they can hype the relaunch of the park whenever they're finished. So, at this point, I guess my question is whether they are happy with the bump that a new attraction would be expected to bring rather than seeing it as something akin to the opening of Galaxy's Edge, Carsland, or Pandora.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Just for fun, plotted the top 10, 2022 vs 2019 ... yellow line is % change (and on secondary axis). MK, EPCOT, and AK were only ones down double-digit $ ... AK really took its lumps

DHS held up ok - guess shows adding a number of new things is a draw. Be interesting to see how EPCOT looks next year with Guardians and Rat, etc. - basically the park with the most recent updates

 

[LSLS]

A huge dropoff for DAK from 2019 to 2022. Was the 2nd most visited park in FL in 2019, dropped all the way to last among the big six last year. Has the Pandora effect worn off? Personally it's my favorite park in Florida, but objectively, there's just not enough to do to warrant a full day. I chaperoned a school trip last April and it was skipped. Normal itinerary is 5 days with one in each Disney park and a hopper day in US/IoA, but last year I was outvoted to skip DAK in favor a second day at Hollywood Studios with all of the newer offerings there. Can't imagine my colleagues are the only ones expressing that thought seeing the latest attendance numbers.

I love the potential. Last time we were there, I've never been so miserable at a theme park anywhere. We legit saw the Nemo show, the kites, ate, did the treks, and I think we got on the safari ride. EVERYTHING was 1 hour waits at least, and with a 3 year old, that wasn't happening. If I remember correctly we even bought Genie+ for that day and still could get into almost nothing (yeah, maybe we used it wrong, but that tells me more about why I hate that system). I am sure we will go back at some point, but unless it's a totally dead period, I have 0 desire to go back to that park, which is sad.

 

[afterabme]

When the park closed its nighttime entertainment and nighttime ride-hours... it became a half day park again.

Are they limited in what they can launch because of SWGE and Toy Storyland?

 

[Ayla]

I find it hard to figure out exactly what they are hoping to achieve with this Epcot redo at this point. It's crawled along so slowly that Guardians opening didn't even seem to be the relaunch of the "new and improved" Epcot, but rather a new ride opening in a park still heavily under construction. I guess the "relaunch", if they ever have one, will be whenever the central spine is done, but I can't see either the Moana walkthrough or Walt Sitting on the Toilet statue being big draws in and of themselves. Who knows, maybe the latter will be the new purple wall?

They have so much still under construction but so little worthy of promotion left to reveal that I can't imagine how they can hype the relaunch of the park whenever they're finished. So, at this point, I guess my question is whether are they happy with the bump that a new attraction would be expected to bring rather than seeing it as something akin to the opening of Galaxy's Edgy, Carsland, or Pandora.

All they have to promote after 5+ years is new concrete and trees.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

I am not surprised about Magic Kingdom being number 1. I've said it before that there is no way for a Universal Orlando theme park surpassing Magic Kingdom unless Disney royally screws up.

Islands of Adventure having more attendance to DHS, Epcot, and AK is a good sign for Universal despite not having a new attraction that opened in 2022. USF still being a head of AK in attendance despite not having a new attraction in 2022 should a warning for Disney. I don't think the reservation system is affecting Animal Kingdom and might be affecting Epcot to a point. Magic Kingdom being down has to be reservation system related.

A huge dropoff for DAK from 2019 to 2022. Was the 2nd most visited park in FL in 2019, dropped all the way to last among the big six last year. Has the Pandora effect worn off? Personally it's my favorite park in Florida, but objectively, there's just not enough to do to warrant a full day. I chaperoned a school trip last April and it was skipped. Normal itinerary is 5 days with one in each Disney park and a hopper day in US/IoA, but last year I was outvoted to skip DAK in favor a second day at Hollywood Studios with all of the newer offerings there. Can't imagine my colleagues are the only ones expressing that thought seeing the latest attendance numbers.

I know Pandora was busy last year when I was there. The problem is I think the depth of the park is affecting it. The World of Pandora originally was supposed to have a 3rd ride considering AK is not strong in the amount ride department. but management cut it. I think it did hurt Animal Kingdom.

DAK does not have a lot of rides and Primeval Whirl gone did not help matters. Primeval Whirl gone is an issue due to Disney not replacing it with another attraction.

 

[lentesta]

How can this be??? Chapek said in November 2022 that attendance was "strong" and the reservation system was needed to balance demand.

I'll be very surprised if WDW's 2023 numbers are as high as 2022. Everything I've heard is that bookings are down 20%.

ETA: I guess international travel wasn't all the way back in 2022. But still.

 

[Tha Realest]

How can this be??? Chapek said in November 2022 that attendance was "strong" and the reservation system was needed to balance demand.

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I'll be very surprised if WDW's 2023 numbers are as high as 2022. Everything I've heard is that bookings are down 20%.

ETA: I guess international travel wasn't all the way back in 2022. But still.

Even though we’re planning fewer trips this next year - only one, as a matter of fact - I renewed my Touring Plans membership.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Are they limited in what they can launch because of SWGE and Toy Storyland?

In DHS, because of TSL, they moved the launch to the other side of the hiway that runs along TSL and SWGE to a forested area... which kept catching fire, and with shells landing on the hiway. So, they stopped the big fireworks show.

But, I was talking about DAK, where fireworks are out because of stressing the animals. DAK had a night show in Rivers of Light and they kept the safari open at night with lighting and the rides open at night, too. But that's all gone.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I say good for Universal! Islands is a great park, and the creative team is turning out terrific attractions. Next visit, UOR will get at least three full days of our week long trip, perhaps 4 if we spend two days at Epic Universe.

 

[BlakeW39]

- That attendance in 2022 was still well below 2019 explains why there's such an aggressive push to squeeze more out of the people who are visiting. Despite what the company and its fans say, I don't think it's a sustainable solution to lower attendance. They need to do more to encourage people to come back, or visit more often, and charging significantly more doesn't sound like the answer

- Animal Kingdom was the least attended WDW park by a sizeable margin, which makes sense to me since it has gone the longest without a major addition (it's actually lost a ride since then too). The renewed interest in Avatar will help somewhat, but that will only go so far. Obviously Disney knows this which is why there are major investment plans, but I don't see a Zootopia reskin of Dinosaur and maybe an extra Moana ride creating the kind of attendance bump they're hoping for. The park needs, and has needed, much more than that

DAK closes early and has the least rides of all the parks. It also hasn't seen any new attractions in 6 years. It's the best park in WDW in terms of quality but it's also really a half day park that needs considerably more investment. I say this as someone whose favorite park is DAK unequivocally 100%.

- At this point, Disney is just throwing money away with EPCOT. The investments over the last decade have not translated to major attendance gains, despite what so many defenders of Frozen and Guardians have said here for years. The park was successful for 40 years without a roller coaster, so I'm not surprised to see one not really moving the attendance needle like they thought it would. I'd say the biggest thing holding EPCOT back were the restrictions on APs, park reservations, park hopping limits, no after 4 tickets etc. The festival push by Disney has fundamentally changed why people go to this park in the first place. It's the place locals go to hang out and resort guests go for dinner. People don't go for the headliner rides (except maybe Soarin') or the characters. Those are just extra things to do where you're there. It's more like Disney Springs now, where people can leisurely walk around, explore without being rushed, catch some entertainment and have a good meal. It's not a major draw for going to WDW, but it has developed an audience over the years who appreciate it for what it is and trying to make it more like Universal Studios isn't going to make it more popular with those who would rather do something else to begin with. They should have focused on revitalizing existing pavilions (Imagination, Seas, Energy, Wonders of Life) instead of spending money tearing down useful space (Innoventions West), or building expensive rides that don't substantially increase capacity (Ratatouille). The blueprint for how to keep EPCOT fresh was laid out in the early 80s and every time Disney has tried to do something different it never works in the long run.

you're on point with all this no doubt. Disney has fumbled the ball with EPCOT so much over the years it's baffling. If they just for once let EPCOT be EPCOT things would be fine. But they don't trust EPCOT to succeed on its own so they're constantly trying to make it something it isn't, and that is to the park's own detriment. A series of reimaginings to all the park's pavillions would have been a proper redo. What we got is just more of what screwed up the park in the first place, only in true Iger fashion, it has an overblown budget.

 

[DonniePeverley]

My observations -

1) Star Wars Galaxy Edge has not been a game changer for Disney Hollywood Studios in regards attendance. I'd have expected double digit growth for Studios. In my opinion it's such an underwhelming experience - and of course it's very debatable whether using the new movies instead of the original trilogy was a wise move.

2) Epcot under construction for so long now is beginning to hurt that park. Yeah i am sure we're all desperate to see the new trees they are planting, but so many years for that ?!

3) The insanity of the reservation system, constantly having to mess around with a mobile phone to plan your trip is putting people off. I would have no idea how my elder family members would ever navigate around Disney.

4) Well play Universal. If they get Epic Universe rite (and i am not too keen on the volume of coasters they are building) they could really eat into Disney. Incorporate a 3 park ticket with a water park, get the transport for all parks rite to stay on property and it could be a winner.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Some general reflections on the numbers:

- That Magic Kingdom had 4 million less people visiting it in 2022 than in 2019, but still felt "busy" says a lot

- That attendance in 2022 was still well below 2019 explains why there's such an aggressive push to squeeze more out of the people who are visiting. Despite what the company and its fans say, I don't think it's a sustainable solution to lower attendance. They need to do more to encourage people to come back, or visit more often, and charging significantly more doesn't sound like the answer

- Animal Kingdom was the least attended WDW park by a sizeable margin, which makes sense to me since it has gone the longest without a major addition (it's actually lost a ride since then too). The renewed interest in Avatar will help somewhat, but that will only go so far. Obviously Disney knows this which is why there are major investment plans, but I don't see a Zootopia reskin of Dinosaur and maybe an extra Moana ride creating the kind of attendance bump they're hoping for. The park needs, and has needed, much more than that

- I honestly think WDSP has the potential to increase its visitation by 50% because the park is so small and unattended as is, that adding an extra 2.5-3 million/year sounds plausible with the right investment and expansion. We'll see if Disney actually does that or keeps going with "temporary" band aid fixes like Cars Road Trip and Alice in BMX Land.

- At this point, Disney is just throwing money away with EPCOT. The investments over the last decade have not translated to major attendance gains, despite what so many defenders of Frozen and Guardians have said here for years. The park was successful for 40 years without a roller coaster, so I'm not surprised to see one not really moving the attendance needle like they thought it would. I'd say the biggest thing holding EPCOT back were the restrictions on APs, park reservations, park hopping limits, no after 4 tickets etc. The festival push by Disney has fundamentally changed why people go to this park in the first place. It's the place locals go to hang out and resort guests go for dinner. People don't go for the headliner rides (except maybe Soarin') or the characters. Those are just extra things to do where you're there. It's more like Disney Springs now, where people can leisurely walk around, explore without being rushed, catch some entertainment and have a good meal. It's not a major draw for going to WDW, but it has developed an audience over the years who appreciate it for what it is and trying to make it more like Universal Studios isn't going to make it more popular with those who would rather do something else to begin with. They should have focused on revitalizing existing pavilions (Imagination, Seas, Energy, Wonders of Life) instead of spending money tearing down useful space (Innoventions West), or building expensive rides that don't substantially increase capacity (Ratatouille). The blueprint for how to keep EPCOT fresh was laid out in the early 80s and every time Disney has tried to do something different it never works in the long run.

I don't know who, but somebody at Disney is terrible at identifying the actual problems at WDW.

With the exception of Pandora, seemingly every significant investment there in the last 15 years has failed to actually solve or assuage the problems they were meant to address. Nearly every project in that time has been hampered by some misstep or misconception of the actual issues.

The few that they have in the pipeline seem similarly out of touch with what the respective parks actually need.

Who is in charge here??

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Who is in charge here??

People who don't have experience working in theme parks, or hospitality in general.

People who don't like or understand the product they're in charge of....or their customers.

People who distrust anyone who does.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

To simply, the estimates for 2022 are:

Magic Kingdom: 17.1 million
Disneyland: 16.8 million
Islands of Adventure: 11 million
Hollywood Studios: 10.9 million
Universal Studios: 10.75 million
EPCOT: 10 million
Animal Kingdom: 9 million
California Adventure: 9 million
Universal Hollywood: 8.4 million

Typhoon Lagoon: 1.92 million
Volcano Bay: 1.85 million

Disney Studios Paris attendance was actually higher in 2022 than 2019! By about 95K, but still...

Disneyland Paris was also better in 2022 than 2019. By 185K

Islands of Adventure was the only Orlando park to do better in 2022 than 2019.

DCA seems to be a lot closer to its 2019 numbers, than DL is. I guess that means Avenger's Campus is a success?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

DCA seems to be a lot closer to it's 2019 numbers, than DL is. I guess that means Avenger's Campus is a success?

I think it's more that DCA had a lower number to catch up to.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't know who, but somebody at Disney is terrible at identifying the actual problems at WDW.

With the exception of Pandora, seemingly every significant investment there in the last 15 years has failed to actually solve or assuage the problems they were meant to address. Nearly every project in that time has been hampered by some misstep or misconception of the actual issues.

The few that they have in the pipeline seem similarly out of touch with what the respective parks actually need.

Who is in charge here??

The Nondescript Coaster Themed Like India or Whatever has been the best attraction return on investment to open during the Bobs Era and yet Iger’s first, paramount rule has been to prohibit similar projects. The Franchise Mandate fundamentally means that park projects are not able to serve the best interests of the parks. It’s not about the best ideas but what supports the needs of select franchises.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

I don't know who, but somebody at Disney is terrible at identifying the actual problems at WDW.

With the exception of Pandora, seemingly every significant investment there in the last 15 years has failed to actually solve or assuage the problems they were meant to address. Nearly every project in that time has been hampered by some misstep or misconception of the actual issues.

The few that they have in the pipeline seem similarly out of touch with what the respective parks actually need.

Who is in charge here??

Chairmen of the Parks and Resorts has big say in this. The catch is there has 4 chairman of the parks since 2008. Iger though is the person who has to approve what the chairman of the parks and resorts approved.

I have an explanation of out of Galaxy's Edge. I remembered reading back in 2020 that Dan Cockrell mentioned that Galaxy's Edge was originally was supposed to be based on Tatooine and located in Echo Lake. Dan Cockrell mentioned that it was Kathleen Kennedy who convinced Bob Iger to switch the concept to the future stories, and not to use the original movies as the basis for the land.

As far as Pixar at DHS, Dan Cockrell has to be blamed. I think its safe to say Toy Storyland was a misfire.

The Backlot area replacement originally was supposed to have a huge Pixar land with Monsters Inc. Door Coaster, and to feature Radiator Springs. Cockerell was the person who convinced Disney to abandon the Monsters Inc. coaster in favor of more family friendly attractions with lower height requirements.

Dan Cockrell was a former Vice President of Walt Disney World and was the Vice President of Disney Hollywood Studios when Pixar and Star Wars was discussed in the mid 2010s.

 

[Disone]

An 11 million guest drop for all 4 WDW parks comparing 2019 with 2022. The 2 Uni parks were up about 500k.

(Waits for people to claim “the parks weren’t running at full capacity!!!!1!”, which is a lie)

But it's not a "claim". Magic Kingdom is still capped at about 50,000. Give or take a little. I don't recall what the last number is but it's definitely still capped. I know you don't want to believe it but it's absolutely true. I don't have firsthand knowledge of the other three parks but I can only assume they are capped too.