1986: An Imagineering Competition - Hub Thread

[Outbound]

Of all the things to listen to, I'm listening to the Magic Journeys soundtrack from Epcot Center to curb my crippling depression of being named for elimination.

Now, time for your daily random bit of completely useless information!

Hot Take: Magic Journeys is basically a kid-friendly imagineer acid trip not gonna lie, mixed with a just-as-trippy-but-also-cool soundtrack.

You'll be fine, you always have the chance to win the veto, and even if you don't there's still the voting where you can make your case. Just focus now on making the best project you can!

 

[Mickeynerd17]

You'll be fine, you always have the chance to win the veto, and even if you don't there's still the voting where you can make your case. Just focus now on making the best project you can!

I know, I was just laughing cause I'm listening to something I normally don't listen to, only to realize just how trippy it is

 

[TwilightZone]

Magic Journeys is super trippy but I got recent respect for it after showing it to a friend who doesn't know all the disney history. He loved it and felt it really captured the childhood spirit. And you know I could kinda get that.

Still trippy tho

 

[goofyyukyuk]

Four Winds Square Review:​

• Off the bat, I was really excited to see you guys choose the papercraft theme over the more industrial world’s fair because I think it fits your park better. However, although I haven’t read through anything in this project yet, based on the brainstorming I saw, I’m expecting to see you guys not go all in on the papercraft theme because it wasn’t the popular choice, but I’m hoping to be surprised!
• I love the name Four Winds Square! The mission statement for the land is very well thought out, although it feels sort of out of place as the first land to have a mission statement if I remember correctly, and the rehashing of the other lands seems more fitting for an overall land description. Again, I have to commend D Hindley for his artwork: it mirrors Mary Blair’s style fantastically!
• I wish that the descriptions for the outside and inside were part of the website rather than Google doc redirects, but that’s really nitpicky. I’m confused now about the exterior façade. Is it supposed to be like D Hindley’s art or like Disneyland’s IASW? It seems nice, but just very similar to Disneyland.
• Ah interesting idea to make the entire land indoors… definitely ambitious! I really love the attention to detail with the eight different projections; they’re so unique and fit in really well with the theming of Small World.
• Again, fantastic art for Soaring with the Four Winds. I think it’s a great concept, and it doesn’t need to be fleshed out anymore than it is. Great idea butting a replica Tower of the Four Winds at the center!
• I really appreciate the originality of the Stories Around the World. It’s also the first major thing I’ve seen that really pushes the crafted theme, so I’m a big fan of that. I think my favorite part of this is the idea that all these stories are rendered in Mary Blair’s style… fantastic idea and my favorite part of the land so far!
• I really like the Garden of Unity! Such a great idea to have moving topiaries and all these interactive elements. This and Stories Around the World are what I love to see in Blue Sky concepts-unnecessary elements that advance the theme. Great work!
• Clock Face Ship Swing is another nice, simple attraction. I can see the appeal in it, but I think out of the two minor attractions, I like Soaring with the Four Winds better. That being said, no criticisms with it, and great art once again!
• Interesting entrance into Small World: One Song, and I love the tribute to UNICEF! I like the idea of using art submitted from kids around the world, although it feels slightly out of place in a theme park. Also interesting attention to detail with writing the script for the UNICEF representative. I’m interested with the concept of Utilidors, which I don’t remember being addressed before now, but I like the idea of using the War Wagon from the American Adventure for the show. I also really like the diversity of animals and songs represented, but I think this sort of gets a little over the top. Conceptually, I love the idea of donated stuffed animals being part of the show, but I sorta think that stuffed animals singing and dancing could border on creepy if that makes sense? I guess it’s tough to say without seeing the actual concepts. The other thing with this one is just the sheer size of the show. I know that the show isn’t supposed to feature every character, but the time between set changing and each individual act would make this quite a lengthy show, and I wonder about how disconnected the show would feel from act to act? I don’t know, it just seems like it might be too much, but I appreciate the randomization aspect that helps with the re-rideability factor, which I think was a great touch.
• I like the exterior concept, I just don’t have anything else to say about it for the Small World attraction. I like all the scenes and everything for the most part, but I’ve gotta wonder about the appeal of making a darker version of the attraction. It seems to me like it’s simultaneously darker and more childish than the regular IASW. For example, there are three-headed trolls battling Valkyries, a friendly Dracula, a three headed dog, a friendly Loch Ness Monster, etc. I don’t like being super critical of attractions, but I feel like this one missed the mark for me. I think that it really veers off from the true message of IASW, which is about normal people around the world and our similarities, but this highlights mostly/entirely fictional characters from international cultures, which even though I admire, it doesn’t fit in this setting. It’s interesting because I think this was overcomplicated in the wrong ways. There wasn’t a real explanation of why there were two separate tracks, so I don’t really know how that would work or why it was necessary. I admire the ambition, but I’m just not a fan.
• I love the restaurant name Blair’s! I also really like all the different cultures represented in the menu, but I wonder about cohesion overall. Regardless, the attention to detail on all the different menu items and even the food pictures is great! I also really like the idea of making it similar to Blue Bayou, but more of a kiddy restaurant. Nice idea with the ball pit and coloring the tables, but now that I’m thinking about it, I think this restaurant is missing a true identity. The menu is reflective of a relatively nice restaurant, but I think you’d be hard pressed to find many people wanting to eat in a nice restaurant with a ball pit haha. I think they’re both great restaurant concepts, but they would’ve benefited from being separate restaurants. And finally, I love love love the boat parade! Honestly this is such a fantastic idea, and it’s so simple! Great idea!
• Nice concept for the Arts and Crafts and Gifts store… really creative putting it in a “toy chest”! Similarly, another great concept for Crossroads Curios! No complaints here!

The Wrapup (a few notes):

• I think this land really struggles from an identity crisis. The established theme is papercraft, but it’s only gone with halfway. Some of the areas (including the central attraction of the land) practically ignore the central theme of papercraft, which results in a land with lots of great individual parts but no real cohesion of concept.
• I think this stems partially from disagreements on the concept from the beginning, but also creative liberties taken in PMs and not discussed outside of there. I think when that happens, it makes it really difficult to be cohesive because lots of the ideas changed in the PMs from the original ideas in the brainstorming thread.
• My last major thing is the issue of the map. I don’t want to be a nag lol, but this is the second land in a row without a map, and in both of those lands, the orientation of everything is very confusing just reading it. To be perfectly honest, I have no idea what’s supposed to be indoors and outdoors in the land. My first thought was that the majority of the land was indoors, but then different things in the attraction descriptions really threw me, so that sort of thing could really use clarity, especially moving forward. Regardless of how simple they are, PLEASE MAKE MAPS!
• All in all, being perfectly honest, I think this was a minor regression for the team, but that’s okay and natural. I’d advise you all to continue trying to work as a team, because I think that was the major difference between this project and the previous ones. Obviously you have the potential to keep doing great things, as evidenced by the past projects and the impressive individual aspects of this project, so don’t be discouraged by this, and for all I know, I’m the only one that feels this way, in which case, definitely don’t take it too hard!

 

[Brer Panther]

I'm legitimately shocked that I'm not up for elimination this time around.

 

[NigelChanning]

​

I like the exterior concept, I just don’t have anything else to say about it for the Small World attraction. I like all the scenes and everything for the most part, but I’ve gotta wonder about the appeal of making a darker version of the attraction. It seems to me like it’s simultaneously darker and more childish than the regular IASW. For example, there are three-headed trolls battling Valkyries, a friendly Dracula, a three headed dog, a friendly Loch Ness Monster, etc. I don’t like being super critical of attractions, but I feel like this one missed the mark for me. I think that it really veers off from the true message of IASW, which is about normal people around the world and our similarities, but this highlights mostly/entirely fictional characters from international cultures, which even though I admire, it doesn’t fit in this setting. It’s interesting because I think this was overcomplicated in the wrong ways. There wasn’t a real explanation of why there were two separate tracks, so I don’t really know how that would work or why it was necessary. I admire the ambition, but I’m just not a fan.

In our defense, the track with the classic boats was going to show the actual culture of the countries while the flying track was going to show the legends/ folklore of the countries but unfortunately (due to scheduling) we were only able to get the legends track on the site.

 

[spacemt354]

Four Winds Square Review:​

• Regardless of how simple they are, PLEASE MAKE MAPS!

I forgot to mention this in my review but yes please. There was a rough draft done by Hulk, but it never was cleaned up and submitted as part of the final project. And what makes it slightly more difficult is the map shouldn't be stand-alone but include the paths to Seasons of Fantasy/its location in the park.

If I have time this weekend

 

[Mickeynerd17]

I like the exterior concept, I just don’t have anything else to say about it for the Small World attraction. I like all the scenes and everything for the most part, but I’ve gotta wonder about the appeal of making a darker version of the attraction. It seems to me like it’s simultaneously darker and more childish than the regular IASW. For example, there are three-headed trolls battling Valkyries, a friendly Dracula, a three headed dog, a friendly Loch Ness Monster, etc. I don’t like being super critical of attractions, but I feel like this one missed the mark for me. I think that it really veers off from the true message of IASW, which is about normal people around the world and our similarities, but this highlights mostly/entirely fictional characters from international cultures, which even though I admire, it doesn’t fit in this setting. It’s interesting because I think this was overcomplicated in the wrong ways. There wasn’t a real explanation of why there were two separate tracks, so I don’t really know how that would work or why it was necessary. I admire the ambition, but I’m just not a fan.

Not surprised one bit.

I felt it was too much an attempt at sticking to what already existed instead of taking a good risk and trying something new with some darker elements. Also the fact that I didn't get all my ideas down due to time didn't help matters either.

We've definitely done better, and no offense to @NigelChanning09 cause he did a great job, just the idea was flawed.

 

[mickeyfan5534]

Expect my reviews later tonight

 

[Outbound]

When tasked to find a possible replacement for the classic Disneyland Railroad, I began by reflecting on our Blue Sky Park's themes. Maturity? That wouldn't reflect well for a transportation ride. Innovativeness? Yes, but that sums up all transportation rides not the Railroad. And then I realized... the Sea.

Wherever you go in our Blue Sky Park, there's a body of water. In most Disneylands, guests walk through the gates to enter a turn-of-the-century Missouri Town, complete with a classic train. But our park has guests enter through a bustling Bostonian Harbor. Our Adventureland is a mysterious island surrounded by sea. Our Fantasyland is divided by small streams. And our Hub is literally called "Port Voyage".

So there's a Sea Theme going on. But how can that be used to tie together the park?

BACKSTORY

Spoiler: A Long Road to a Realized Dream

The Harbortown Sailing Ships Co. was founded by former Captain Eli Watney. Watney was a long-time resident of Harbortown, most famous for his tenure as Lighthouse Keeper (which ended rather mysteriously). But most forget that before coming to Harbortown, Watney was a known adventurer, traveling the seas in search of fortune and glory. Unfortunately, a terrible accident left Watney scarred and unable to continue his sea-faring adventures -- hence why he took the job of Lighthouse Keeper -- but Watney never stopped dreaming of someday returning to the sea.

After striking rich on Pirate's Treasure, Watney used his riches for a little "passion project": the first large-scale ferry system in the Thirteen Colonies. Building a replica of his old sailing ship, the SS Explorer (1696), the ferry connected Harbortown to Boston, New Haven, and New York. Watney hoped for the project to continue, but his foreign investors were concerned by his rapidly-rising debts on the Lighthouse, forcing Watney to fund the second ship, the SS Mariner (1699) alone. That would be the final nail in the coffin on Watney's debts, as his own employers turned on him one fateful night atop the Cat's Eye Lighthouse. None were seen again.

Clouded in mystery, the shipping company turned to Watney's nephew, a Bostonian with little interest in sailing. The Explorer and Mariner (which had still yet to complete its maiden voyage) were left abandoned in Harbortown for over a decade until the arrival of Jean-Luc Argent, a greedy merchant with desires to build a shipping empire. At this point, France and Britain were battling over control of North America, with the French Crown at an all-time peak under Louis XIV. Argent bought the abandoned ships and commissioned a third, the SS Grandeur (1713) to complete his fleet.

These three ships were diverted from Watney's dream. They were now trading galleys, shipping supplies from the West Indies up to New England for manufacturing. Little is known about this period, aside from Argent's plans for a grand empire failing and his three ships falling into mediocrity. Although some claim the Grandeur was the ship Alexander Hamilton took from St. Croix to New York, so hey, that's something!

By 1776 everything was changing. Argent's son Phillipe declared loyalty to the British crown, which turned out to not be the best of ideas -- a mob of revolutionaries chased all the Tories out of Boston, leaving the three ships ownerless. Also at this time, the Argents had finally raised enough for a fourth ship, though it had not yet been named. The Continental Navy formally seized control over the four ships, naming the newest addition the SS Liberty (1776).

All four ships served faithfully through the war, and remarkably none were sunk or damaged. When the war was over, the Continental Navy returned the rented ships to the people of Harbortown. By town vote, they decided to restart the Harbortown Sailing Ships Co. and hopefully put their now-booming town on the map. The four ships would now ferry guests to all corners of the world, with a central hub at Harbortown USA. It had been nearly a century, but Eli Watney's dream was finally realized.

SAILING SHIPS
The Harbortown Sailing Ships Co. contains four ships -- the SS Explorer (1696), the SS Mariner (1699), the SS Grandeur (1713), and the SS Liberty (1776). Each ship has a slightly different exterior -- the Explorer and Mariner both look old and worn, while the Grandeur is painted navy and gold and the Liberty red and blue -- but overall function the same.

The Ships have the same capacity as the SS Columbia in Disneyland, at 300 guests per party (in contrast to the Railroad's 250). Added up, we can expect two ships to be in service on off-days, three ships to be in service on weekends and busier days, and four ships to be in service holiday season.

When not used, the ships are "docked" in one of four special piers in Harbortown USA. This adds an extra layer of immersion. The ships are only cleaned and renovated after the park closes.

THE EXHIBITS
Each ship has a unique backstory, which ties to a central storyline on the turbulent early years of the Harbortown Sailing Ships Co, passing from owner to owner and taking on a number of niche jobs. Below deck, guests can walk through an exhibit of the ship's history. Each exhibit is unique to that ship, graciously provided by the Harbortown Historical Society.

The SS Explorer's exhibit discusses the adventures Eli Watney and other early explorers encountered during the Age of Discovery. Then, the world was uncharted and the seas dangerous.

The SS Mariner's exhibit discusses maritime folklore, both around New England and other areas of the world. This ship is a bit creepy, given it was the final nail in the coffin for Watney's death.

The SS Grandeur's exhibit discusses the age of mercantilism, when trading ships were at an all-time high between the Indies, Colonies, and Old World. But it also discusses the costs of these economic highs - the plights of slaves and natives, displaced due to the rising obsession over a global economy.

The SS Liberty's exhibit discusses the struggles of the Continental Army and Navy during the American Revolution, shining a light on some of the less-represented campaigns and battles waged for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

These exhibits will add some "edutainment" to the ships. The backstory described earlier is interwoven into these exhibits through plaques and fake letters on display, giving guests the opportunity to piece together the puzzle of the Sailing Ship Co.'s backstory.

THE ROUTE
And finally, let's get onto what everyone is excited for -- the route.

Starting in Harbortown, the ships pass over a drawbridge on the route to Adventure Atoll. This area is empty aside from a culturally-appropriate Wampanoag Village diorama, representing the indigenous peoples of the Massachusetts Bay. They then enter into Adventure Atoll, paying careful attention to not interfere with the River Cruise Route. Excellent views of the Ottoman City follow.

The first stop port-of-call is Adventure Atoll, just by the Dockyard Stunt Show. After this the ships take off again, passing what may or may not be Frontierland. This land's description will come once that land is finished. Fantasyland's route is away from the rest of the land. Although it could possibly be placed in the middle of the Seasonal Garden, it was decided such a concept is too intrusive to the quaint aesthetic described.

Instead, Seasons of Fantasy's stop is themed to the Kingdom of Corona, just by the Tangled attraction. The ships then take off again, passing by the Captain Hook Diorama. Here, we see Captain Hook and Mr. Smee standing on the mouths of alligators. Hook shouts, "help us!", "help us!", but the ships pay him no mind.

The final port-of-call is Four Winds Square. This adds even more motion to the land, with the sailing ships now arriving in to dock right by the main facade. Although this will block the view, it will only be for a short while and ultimately bring more visual interest to the land through kinetic energy.

The ships then make their way through what may or may not be Tomorrowland, before completing the loop in Harbortown USA.​

 

[Pi on my Cake]

The Disneyland Trail Horseback Rides

First off, the elephant in the room. Horseback rides are not the most practical mode of transportation. But guests don't ride the Disneyland Railroad because it is the fastest way to get from Point A to Point B. Unless you happened to get to the station right as the train is arriving or you are a slow walker, the train is really just a novelty that doesn't save any time.

So, yeah. Horseback rides aren't a practical mode of transportation. But who cares? They're cool! And that is what really matters!
​

---

-Practical Stuff-

(Map is very much not to scale or accurate, but it gets the basic idea across)

There will be 3 stations. One near the front of the park in Harbortown USA, one in our Frontierland equivalent, and one shared between 4 Winds Square and Seasons of Fantasy.

Using Walt Disney World as a guide, each stretch would be roughly 0.8-1.0 km long. An average horse canter is 16-28 km/hr. This makes every leg of the journey will take under 5 minutes. Add 5 minutes for mounting/dismounting and another 5 minutes for buffer time and each leg will have a 15 minute estimate.

Of course, horseback rides win't have a large capacity. Only 15 horses in each group and one of those needs to be ridden by the guide. So, rides are by reservation only. Time slots are available every 15 minutes from each station from park open till sunset. There is a small fee, but only to control crowds. It is intended to negligible and not a premium experience, but the price will be adjusted as needed to keep reservations from becoming too overbooked.
​

Here is the pricing for opening day:

• $5 per person for 1 Leg. One Station to the next.​
• $12 per person for a round trip. All 3 Legs in a row.​
• $20 per person for 5 Legs. Use all in a row or split them up.​
• $39 per person for 10 Legs. ​

---

-The 3 Stations-

Station 1 is in Harbortown USA.

It is themed to a stable where Paul Revere and the Minute Men kept the horses they used for their midnight ride. The queue/lobby for this station serves as both a historical recreation of how horses were kept in the revolutionary war era as well as a small museum on Paul Revere. It is tucked just off the main stretch of the street on the edge of the more naturalistic Port Voyage.

Station 2 is in "Frontierland"

While it is unclear what form our Frontierland will take (or if we even will have one), but pretty much any group (real or imagined) that has ever blazed trails has used horses in some way, shape, or form.

Tentatively, it will be themed to the iconic Tri-Circle-D Ranch. With whatever changes are needed to fit our specific land. Essentialy though, it is no more than a simple Dude Ranch for the setting we choose.

Station 3 is in 4 Winds Square (and also Seasons of Fantasy)

The third, and final, station is connect to the Gardens of Unity in 4 Winds Square. Tucked back a bit in an elegant stable filled with tile murals of Mary Blair artwork of various Disney royals and the horses they've ridden or called friends. Of course, many of these will be inspired by Blair's iconic style so more modern princesses such as Rapunzel and Mulan can have their iconic horses represented here as well. The regal, fairy tale charm will make this fit like a glove in Seasons of fantasy. The whimsical, light-hearted style and Mary Blair inspiration will help it serve as an amazing set piece tucked in the back of the Gardens of Unity and the 4 Winds Square.
​

---

-The Legs (For Dayz)-

Leg 1 (Station 1 to 2)

The first leg will start with a brief stroll behind the Haunted Lighthouse showbuilding along side the water and rock work. Then a bridge over the river to Adventure Atoll. The horses pass over the main path of the land behind Flavors of Import. A cast member will be stationed nearby to help block crowds as the horses are crossing (Any crossing cast members will be trading pins and offering help for guests when not blocking paths for horse to cross or picking up horse poop). The horses then weave through the walking trails in the center of the land before crossing the main path again before crossing the river to Frontierland (the main guest bridge has a dedicated horses only lane). They then head to Station 2 with a quick path and crossing any guest walkways as little as possible.

Leg 2 (Station 2 to 3)

The first section of this Leg depends heavily on what our frontierland is based around. After leaving Frontierland, this is one of the more natural stretches as it goes along the berm behind Seasons of Fantasy. It does briefly pass though the land right in front of the E-Ticket, Once Upon a Dream (with the help of more crossing cast members). Before eventually weaving its way to Station 3 while avoiding main paths as much as possible.

Leg 3 (Station 3 to 1)

This stretch starts right away with one of the highlights of the whole loop! Similar to the way the railroad crosses across the Small World Facade in Disneyland, the horse trail goes right across the front of the 4 Winds Square facade in an elevated path over the entrances to the indoor sections of the land. After that there is a very brief trip crossing over a pathway in Tomorrowland to get to some forested dead space behind the scenes near the castle. There will be a simpler display here, but what that is depends on what our Tomorrowland is.

Do we have a classic sci-fi city of sorts? Chuckle at robot Horses being sold by an alien sales man in what is a fantastical retro futuristic parody of a used car lot!

Do we have a utopia/progress city/epoct inspired land? Then enjoy a brief tour through a green house where high tech and environmentally friendly ways the food for the horses are grown!

After that, cross through the Castle hub, Port Voyage, and make your way back to the first station.
​

---

As mentioned before, each of these Legs can be done on their own or as a part of a large loop.
Groups departs every 15 minutes from each station and reservations are required.
Prices are kept cheap, but may be raised to keep demand from outpacing the capacity.
Many details of these plans are tentative based on how the rest of the park develops.
​

---

Once the practicalities are settled and the cast/horses are used to the process of these horseback rides, the capacity will be able to be increased by decreasing the time needed to get guests set up, having multiple groups getting set up at the same time, and increasing the number of horse in a group. Eventually getting up to 21 horses in a group and reservations every 5 minutes. But things will be started slowly and will work their way up to more later.​

 

[D Hulk]

ROCKY MOUNTAIN CONSTRUCTION
presents…

​

​

Designer: Alan Schilke
Model: Topper track (wood)
Lift system: Chain lift hill
Height requirement: 54”
Hourly capacity: 960
Ride duration: 14:36
Total length: 13,200 m
Height: 246’
Speed: 85 mph
Inversions: 12​

Elements featured on this ride include:

• Beyond-vertical drop (96 degrees)
• Over 76 seconds of airtime
• Double barrel roll
• Overbanked turns
• Quadruple down
• Quadruple up
• Heartline roll
• Camelback hills
• Zero-g roll
• Near miss interaction with Snow White Castle
• Dive loop
• Zero gravity stall
• Dive stall
• Top gun stall
• Trick track
• Corkscrew
• Barrel roll
• Tiki roll (world’s first!)

 

[Pi on my Cake]

​

• Tiki roll (world’s first!)

So, what exactly is a Tiki Roll?

 

[PerGron]

So, what exactly is a Tiki Roll?

Tune in to More Pooh Talk to find out

 

[spacemt354]

ROCKY MOUNTAIN CONSTRUCTION
presents…

​

​

Elements featured on this ride include:

• Beyond-vertical drop (96 degrees)
• Over 76 seconds of airtime
• Double barrel roll
• Overbanked turns
• Quadruple down
• Quadruple up
• Heartline roll
• Camelback hills
• Zero-g roll
• Near miss interaction with Snow White Castle
• Dive loop
• Zero gravity stall
• Dive stall
• Top gun stall
• Trick track
• Corkscrew
• Barrel roll
• Tiki roll (world’s first!)

My left brain is saying this is absurd.

My right brain is saying this is better than Chicken Little and needs to win.

 

[spacemt354]

So, what exactly is a Tiki Roll?

You see, son, when two people love each other....

 

[NateD1226]

My left brain is saying this is absurd.

My right brain is saying this is better than Chicken Little and needs to win.

You have 2 brains?!?

 

[spacemt354]

You have 2 brains?!?

I have 3 brain cells

 

[Pi on my Cake]

You see, son, when two people love each other....

 

[NigelChanning]

I have 3 brain cells