1902 Carthay Circle

[Pi on my Cake]

So I keep defending the animal addition for my own personal bias as an animal care professional, but I do think there are very good reasons to add them to the park. Ocean Park does so well because the Chinese market absolutely adore animal attractions, many times choosing them over themeing. They will go out of their way to visit animal attractions whereas the rides come second to them.

By adding animals, it would attract the Chinese populous, pulling from the crowds that Ocean Park has, therefore helping HKDL do much better overall. Even if the animals were kept to a smaller number (one or two areas) guests would flock to the park to see their beloved pandas and tigers. That is why (at least in my opinion) including animals in some capacity is important to the success of the park. The masses of the Chinese market don't care about how enriching the environment is if there is an animal attraction nearby. Combining both would make an incredibly successful park.

I definitely think including animals is a smart move. And a fun one!

Even if not dedicated animal trails, things like fish tanks adding to the ambience of Atlantis or ruins taken over by animals (like the monkey exhibit in Asia near the entrance to Kali) adding to the immersiveness of the lands as well as drawing crowds away from Ocean Park would be amazing!

 

[Pi on my Cake]

That is a very good idea, and I can honestly say since I worked in the industry for over 20 plus years in many areas of it like park ops, merch, entertainment, and creative. I have a main focus from doing creative entertainment, special events, and design. So, since you asked me to be involved whatever you would need most for me to do I will. Ive did work for SWP&E like HOS, and events. Plus did some collabs with que and theme. I believe you have the good idea here with seeing where everyones strong ideas in a certain department or area would be very much more organized, and not so much too going off the rails. So, just let me know which area or dept you think I would benefit, and I can get my Creative Vayne Ears on and start brainstorming and doing collabs with other members.

Also, I really love this LOST WORLDS concept, and where the guests are on adventures throughout the park and lands. I wonder also with this if there is away since DAK is about animals and mans relationship with them and ways to be conservative if also this LOST WORLDS, could incorporate the being conservative by from their adventures and such it also goes to preserving lands, water, animals, just a way to also know that being at the park and your adventure is actually helping Earth. Just a little rambaling thought that came to me.

Welcome to the team btw! Sounds like you've definitely got a lot to add!

 

[D Hulk]

Day 1 - Recap​

First off, I would like to start by saying thank you to all who have accepted our offer to join this project, it looks like there will be a great big beautiful tomorrow!

@D Hindley shared this image that represents the expansion area we have to work on, additionally he mentioned that we could extend the Pier area, and create a new type of Disney Springs.

Another important point to consider as we follow, is that @PerGronStudio mentioned that the Chinese audience is very interested in Zoos, therefore the inclusion of animals around the park would be highly advisable, in order to draw bigger crowds than HKDL’s major rival, Ocean Park.

Then, it was pointed out by @D Hindley and @FireMountain that the inclusion of indoor areas and shaded spaces would help fue to the climate of Hong Kong, nevertheless it should be taken in account that it should be balanced as the park has is surrounded by nature’s beauty.

As for the park concepts, one of the most popular ones is the use of Mythology around the world and times as part of the main theme, with seven land themed to different continents. It has even mentioned that we could use Epcot’s layout, so the park is divided in two areas, one centered around the previously mentioned Myths, and the other around Sea/Nature. The intention overall is for the park to feel like a mix of Animal Kingdom/DisneySea in detail and storytelling.

Some of the lands that some of you are interested in working on include, a Norse Mythology Based one, a British Folklore based area, a Spanish/Latin American Land anchored by Pirates, Atlantis: The Lost Continent (potentially including the Muppets), an Asian Themed Land that would heavily focus on Chinese Culture. Some other ideas include a Nemo themed area, a Polynesian one anchored by Moana, Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt, Doctor Strange, and Wakanda!

Day 2 Recap

View attachment 300893

Alright! So many great ideas!

Basically, we seem to be focusing on a mixture of culture, myths, and natural beauty from around the world as the theme. Dividing up the park into areas based on either the seven continents or the UNESCO 5 cultural regions (which could easily be spread out to more than just five for better park organization).

Shout out to @PerGronStudio for beong our ace in the hole when it comes to animal exhibit expertise! We want animal exhibits to help compete with Ocean Park and because animals are awesome. So, paper straws only please

I think this post by @D Hindley does a great job explaining some of our main themes that tie it all together as well as the UNESCO stuff.​

Below is what I think is all the main ideas that have been brought up for lands within the seven continents (or reworked for the 5 cultural regions). If I missed anything, let me know and I'll edit it in!

-Europe-
British literature (specifically LotR).
Arthurian legends and high fantasy (Beastly Kingdomme as a part of this? Or as it's own thing).
Greek myths (possibly including Atlantis. Possibly Atlantis as a regular land. Possibly Atlantis as an indoor kid focused land (Muppets or Ducktales tie in?)).
Norse mythology Scandanavian Village (possibly indoor for AC to simulate cold. Vikings!).

-Asia-
Chinese myths and stories (Journey to the West, Monkey King, Terracotta Army, lots of options. Possibly framed around an old British colonial Hong Kong town).
India's tall tales and fables.
Doctor Strange (tied to either the Ancient One or the Hong Kong Sanctum).

-Africa-
Egyptian Mythology.
Wakanda.
DAK inspired area (possibly including a clone or similar attraction to Kilimanjaro Safaris).

-North America -
Native American Mythology (possibly including Pocahontas and Frontierland elements).
Coastal hipster town/boardwalk (ice cream shop, small stores, marine life exhibits, Toy Story Mania?).
Tall tales land (Paul Bunyan, johny Appleseed).
Pacific Northwest Crytips/Urban legends land (possibly including Gravity Falls. Maybe indoors for perpetual night time).
Caribbean/Latin America pirates land.

-South America-
Aztec myths.
Paradise Falls.

-Australia/oceania-
Nemo (possibly as an indoor kids land).
Polynesian mythology island (Moana as expected heavy focus. Helps fill the void of the more African focused Adventureland in Hong kong. Tiki room?).

-Antarctica-
Penguin exhibit.


So, that is about 22 different lands and areas lol. At some point we'll have to cut this down, but that's going to be tough because so many of these are amazing!

Going forward, we are talking about starting to narrow down what we are looking at for Europe as well as discussing park icon ideas (such as a fountain or the library of Alexandria)! Can't wait to see what we think up!
​

DAY 3 & 4 RECAP​

Our discussion for much of these past two days has been on creating a cohesive, unifying thesis and theme for our park. The macro-idea has been worldwide exploration, with specific areas of interest including nature, culture and myth.

Much debate occurred on how to synthesize these different interests. Our strongest idea so far came today (simultaneously from @Pionmycake and myself) with the concept of Lost Worlds - places like Atlantis, El Dorado and Shangri-La which allow us more imaginative, purpose-driven storytelling while also satisfying everyone’s stated interests.

This comment got my skull exploding with ideas for a different approach to this park:

DISNEY'S LOST WORLDS
​

"Guests are explorers departing on research expeditions to discover mythic lost civilizations throughout the world, with each "Lost World" being a place where myths live in harmony with nature."

Think this approach could preserve a lot of the nature, myth and culture we've been discussing, but in a more directed and exciting way. Like DAK, animal exhibits line the ruins and make the settings feel lived-in. Lots of worldwide settings are still represented, but in a less "edutaining" way.

The entry land could be a base camp in a remote village where we leave on our adventure. Makes guests the center of the story, as @MonorailRed suggested. Full of artifacts already recovered. Other lands could include:

El Dorado - Latin American
Shangri-La - Asian
Camelot - European
Asgard - different European
Atlantis and/or Lemuria - Atlantic and Pacific set respectively, which could allow for Greek, Polynesian, even Caribbean
Dhofar - Arabian lost city in the sands
Solomon's Mines - African
Antarctica - Following the dinosaur valley / Lovecraftian ruins examples

This is a list which can be whittled down. It's just an example of the theme's breadth. And I'd wager IPs like Coco could still fold into an El Dorado setting easily enough.

This proposal is a big move away from what we've been discussing, but discuss it or reject it as you please.

Aaaand while I was writing this, @Pionmycake said something very similar!

To reiterate, these ideas are for a second gate at Hong Kong Disneyland. Our reference points have been Animal Kingdom and DisneySea, as we wish to create a park with the same detail, immersion, fantastical realism and care.

Discussion ongoing now concerns figuring out some smaller decisions like lands and attractions. What we’ve brainstormed so far has incredible potential and a ton of creativity is already on display!

To help with our designs, here’s the wiki article on Lost Worlds.

And here’s the wiki article on mythological places, which lists out a great many potential settings.

 

[DisneyFan18]

One of the places I think animals would fit nicely is in Shangri-La, as the area could have some monkeys close to Everest like AK does?

If we do add a Coco themed attraction to El Dorado maybe we can have some sort of Xolo Dog petting zoo?

 

[Outbound]

I think the biggest challenge with the lost worlds concept will be figuring out where Indiana Jones goes when all of them fit so well.

 

[Evilgidgit]

One of the places I think animals would fit nicely is in Shangri-La, as the area could have some monkeys close to Everest like AK does?

If we do add a Coco themed attraction to El Dorado maybe we can have some sort of Xolo Dog petting zoo?

If this is set in a lost world, wouldn't adding in a modern day IP attraction to El Dorado kinda defeat the purpose?

 

[mickeyfan5534]

If this is set in a lost world, wouldn't adding in a modern day IP attraction to El Dorado kinda defeat the purpose?

Just saying, I mentioned an idea to be able to make use of modern things earlier.

Another idea: divide each land in two. In the front, you have the real locations ala Harambe and Anandapur. In the back, you have that culture’s lost world.

 

[D Hulk]

If this is set in a lost world, wouldn't adding in a modern day IP attraction to El Dorado kinda defeat the purpose?

Just saying, I mentioned an idea to be able to make use of modern things earlier.

@mickeyfan5534 has a great idea.

How it could fit Coco and El Dorado? The land begins with a village like San Miguel at the mouth of a jungle (which houses the ruins of El Dorado). From the village we find the Coco attraction.

Additionally, Coco concerns a journey to its own “lost world,” Mictlan the Aztec underworld. There can be visual references to Mictlan in El Dorado’s art and hieroglyphics, tying everything together.

 

[mickeyfan5534]

Coco concerns a journey to its own “lost world,” Mictlan the Aztec underworld

Iffy interpretation but I do agree about using some The Land of the Dead iconography in the El Dorado area to tie it all together.

 

[DisneyFan18]

@mickeyfan5534 has a great idea.

How it could fit Coco and El Dorado? The land begins with a village like San Miguel at the mouth of a jungle (which houses the ruins of El Dorado). From the village we find the Coco attraction.

Additionally, Coco concerns a journey to its own “lost world,” Mictlan the Aztec underworld. There can be visual references to Mictlan in El Dorado’s art and hieroglyphics, tying everything together.

I like this idea, I feel like it really works, as you visit a village that leads the way for you to discover a Lost World! It’s fantastic, maybe the entrance to El Dorado could be a pyramid similar to Epcot? But the Pyramid is actually in ruins, semi-lost within the jungle?

 

[Evilgidgit]

I do apologise if my comments are sounding crass or objectionable. This is my first time participating in a mass Imagineering project, and I am a bit overwhelmed by it. I suppose this is a little outside my comfort zone, as I am more a solo kinda armchair Imagineer. My one solo park creation so far here is a Peter Pan/Neverland theme park. But, of course, Imagineering is a team effort and I look forward to further fun and shenanigans.

My concern is that the conversation seems all over the place, though this might just be me. Thanks to the daily recaps by @D Hindley, it is good to keep track of the overrall direction of the park, but every post seems to be talking about something new. It's hard to keep track of a a conversation when it changes so quickly. Now this sudden change of discussion makes sense, cause brainstorming and all, but I feel it is important to actually nail what the actual themes of the park are. I do have dyspraxia, so I may just be have trouble keeping up. Some members are saying we need to put animals in, in order to compete with another resort, which really shouldn't matter since this is blue sky creativity and financial realism really shouldn't be an issue. Or at least that is how I see it. I'm weird that way XD

Ideas are coming and going in seconds so it is hard to keep track of what is on the table, I am somewhat confuzzled if we are going with myths or lost worlds, or both. We also have yet to assign the aforementioned positions of Lead Imagineer and the others (or have we?) It might be a good idea to assign them soon. Thanks for letting me get this off my chest. Now, let's make some magic!

 

[Pi on my Cake]

I'm picturing the park shaped like a donut. Big lake with a path around it.

The "real" villages (mostly just shops and food, very few if any attractions to keep focus on the lost world's) border the lake. Docked at each village is an explorer vessel from that culture (perhaps a pirate ship or a submarine or whatever).

The real lands (the lost worlds) are entered by going though the towns. Add another walkway around tge outer edge connecting just the lost world's for crowd flow.

Each land has some type of story centered around an explorer discovering it or seeking something within it. One could be S.E.A. and one could be Indy. Most could be different fictionalized versions of real explorers from the cultures. Maybe a purely original character as an explorer. But each land has someone or something exploring it.

What do you guys think of these ideas for the layout and themes?

 

[PerGron]

I'm picturing the park shaped like a donut. Big lake with a path around it.

The "real" villages (mostly just shops and food, very few if any attractions to keep focus on the lost world's) border the lake. Docked at each village is an explorer vessel from that culture (perhaps a pirate ship or a submarine or whatever).

The real lands (the lost worlds) are entered by going though the towns. Add another walkway around tge outer edge connecting just the lost world's for crowd flow.

Each land has some type of story centered around an explorer discovering it or seeking something within it. One could be S.E.A. and one could be Indy. Most could be different fictionalized versions of real explorers from the cultures. Maybe a purely original character as an explorer. But each land has someone or something exploring it.

What do you guys think of these ideas for the layout and themes?

I was thinking make it more difficult to walk through/feel bigger. By that I mean, don't have pathways that you can easily see each section where it feels like you're walking in a straight line through the park like a Magic Kingdom style park. Maybe have different alternative paths from section to section, "secret" paths that will lead you somewhere else (maybe an animal exhibit or a smaller attraction or shop) and just make it feel more like the guest is exploring the world rather than walking through a theme park.

Obviously don't make it impossible and have a main path so guests can walk through, but maybe don't set it in a circle or obvious shape where everything is on a perimeter of something and you can just easily walk to it. The world has all kinds of twists and turns, so I feel like if we do something like that, not only will it be more unique, but it would also really fit with the themeing. I don't know how feasible this is, but I thought I may as well bring it up.

As for the central explorer(s), I love that idea.

 

[Suchomimus]

I'm picturing the park shaped like a donut.

 

[DlpPhantom]

I was thinking make it more difficult to walk through/feel bigger. By that I mean, don't have pathways that you can easily see each section where it feels like you're walking in a straight line through the park like a Magic Kingdom style park. Maybe have different alternative paths from section to section, "secret" paths that will lead you somewhere else (maybe an animal exhibit or a smaller attraction or shop) and just make it feel more like the guest is exploring the world rather than walking through a theme park.

Obviously don't make it impossible and have a main path so guests can walk through, but maybe don't set it in a circle or obvious shape where everything is on a perimeter of something and you can just easily walk to it. The world has all kinds of twists and turns, so I feel like if we do something like that, not only will it be more unique, but it would also really fit with the themeing. I don't know how feasible this is, but I thought I may as well bring it up.

As for the central explorer(s), I love that idea.[/QUOTE
As for the winding layout that’s what AK was originally but people couldn’t find things do to not being able to see any weenies.

 

[DlpPhantom]

I'm picturing the park shaped like a donut. Big lake with a path around it.

The "real" villages (mostly just shops and food, very few if any attractions to keep focus on the lost world's) border the lake. Docked at each village is an explorer vessel from that culture (perhaps a pirate ship or a submarine or whatever).

The real lands (the lost worlds) are entered by going though the towns. Add another walkway around tge outer edge connecting just the lost world's for crowd flow.

Each land has some type of story centered around an explorer discovering it or seeking something within it. One could be S.E.A. and one could be Indy. Most could be different fictionalized versions of real explorers from the cultures. Maybe a purely original character as an explorer. But each land has someone or something exploring it.

What do you guys think of these ideas for the layout and themes?

Isn’t that just Islands of Adventure?

 

[Evilgidgit]

Isn’t that just Islands of Adventure?

From now on, it is Islands of Adventures With Donuts.

 

[Pi on my Cake]

Isn’t that just Islands of Adventure?

Yeah, I guess it is kinda similar lol

I was picturing just the "real world" entrance areas ti each land along the lake though with the actual lands behind that. Connected to the main path, but the main path doesn't run through it.

Though I totally understand not wanting to use this layout. Either because of its similarity to other parks or I favor of something less traditional and more adventurey like @PerGronStudio suggested

 

[D Hulk]

It might be a good time to start discussing what roles we can all fill (even while we're still debating layout and such).

And once we have that Thesis - and begin deciphering the concepts involved, it could be fun to utilize everyone's talents towards specific parts of the project.

Something we didn't do in Club 32 is have 'roles' - we could even take them straight out of WDI

Lead Project Manager
Lead Art Director
Lead Engineer (ie ride designs and mechanics)
etc for the whole park

And then have sub-leads for specific lands if someone wants to focus on Asia, Europe, etc - they could be the lead designer of Europe, and have folks work there, with the Park Leads also chiming in as well.

A big collaborative environment (but one that's also organized)

The big role is Lead Project Manager(s). Deciding on someone to handle the overall big picture vision for this park.

Does anybody want to nominate themselves or others for this role?

It seems offhand like either @DisneyFan18 or @Pionmycake would be able to fill this role, if they're willing.

I'm around for one more month, then I'm abroad (China) for the vast majority of September. So I could take a role like Creative Consultant for our early design phase, but I won't be able to help later on.

 

[D Hulk]

Another discussion to have right now is deciding on our lands - ideally 5-7 of 'em plus an expansion pad. Each land would have a signature E-ticket and a few additional attractions. My vague thoughts on the potential lands (WORK IN PROGRESS):

Base camp entry land - A village where explorers leave to discover the lost worlds, home to artifact museums, libraries, supply warehouses and other exploration aides.

Some have discussed doing Old Hong Kong as the entry, to satisfy local nostalgia. Ocean Park basically already has this land. Instead I propose something inspired by vintage Southern China mixed with a bit of Thailand - that's the most popular international destination for Chinese tourists so it holds a familiar appeal. Also a bit of a Himalayan foothill village vibe.

While we're discussing dividing most lands into a "local village" and the "lost world" beyond it, this entry land will be just the former. A nearby "lost world" land serves as its counterpart -

Shangri-La - Picturing this as set entirely within a lush mountain valley, somewhat like how DisneySea's Mysterious Island is laid out. Accessed from the entry land via mountain passes and tunnels. Maybe make our mountains U-shaped and facing the real mountains north of the site.

Attractions? A variant on Expedition Everest perhaps.

El Dorado - Initial area is a Latin village set against a lake near the jungles. In the jungles is El Dorado itself, city of gold, which exists mostly as ruins.

The E-ticket could be a boat journey to discover the city similar to Lost World Expedition: The Search for Tarrant Ramn by @mickeyfan5534 (and team?). Around this are winding jungle paths around ruins, including a DAK-style animal trail (Conquistador Trail) following the footsteps of former failed searches for El Dorado. In the village, a Coco attraction.

Atlantis - Either a Greek coastal setting like Santorini, or someplace in the Caribbean (to justify a POTC ride, which HKDL doesn't have). Either way, located with the village element facing Hong Kong's ocean.

Inland is a major indoors area set in Atlantis, seemingly underwater protected by force fields. Strong option for aquarium elements, which Chinese guests like. Attraction: Submarine simulator like TDS's 20,000 Leagues.

Do we want to reference Atlantis: The Lost Empire in any way whatsoever? Or alternately The Little Mermaid?

Antarctica - Another good indoor land option (we want 1 or 2 to combat HK heat/humidity). @Evilgidgit has some ideas for this I believe. Maybe a research base set in and around ice caverns, leading to a Hollow Earth interior complete with dinosaurs.

Entry from the lush jungle (all of HKDL inevitably looks like a jungle) could appear like Argentinian glaciers with pathways inside leading "under the ocean" to the Antarctic continent.

Camelot - Here's a way to bring in old Beastlie Kingdomme ideas if we wish. Like the dragon coaster. Some talk has occurred about a King Arthur dark ride - I'm thinking trackless like Runaway Railway with a similar 2.5-D effect of traveling through stylized medieval manuscripts and tapestries. No extra thought put into this yet. Could be set along the ocean with a Giant's Causeway coastal appearance.

Lemuria - The Polynesian version of Atlantis, basically. I'm including this as an option if we want to add IPs like Moana and/or Finding Nemo.

To distinguish from Atlantis, the Lemurian city could be recently risen from the seas (with waterfalls simulating receding ocean waters) alongside a quaint coastal village. Ruins could resemble Nan Madol in Micronesia. Faces Hong Kong's ocean and island, naturally.

Africa - There are two options here.

One is Solomon's Lost City (name?), another jungle-set lost city ruin. Not sure especially how to distinguish that from El Dorado.

Another option is Wakanda. It's certainly a "lost world." That's if we want MCU in this park (there is plenty getting built in HKDL's Tomorrowland). No solid ideas for either land.

Dhofar - An Arabian lost city (need to research names better - this name turns out is a real city in Oman). An option for representing a different culture in a unique desert setting, with inspirations maybe from Petra, Babylon, Egypt, and the Wadi Rum desert. No additional ideas for this one yet. Disney's Aladdin elements?

Greece - If Atlantis isn't Greek, or if we want to explore this topic further, we could do something like Mt. Olympus. Tied in with Disney's Hercules to an extent perhaps?

IP-wise, either S.E.A. or Indiana Jones could be applied to any of these lands if they need something extra.

Just my ramblings. Something for discussion.