$100 a day? Soon. VERY soon.

[DisneyJoe]

A Disney trip will cost us in excess of $5000.

Why so much?

 

[BigThunderMatt]

This certainly seems to be what they are going for, based on how things have been going in recent years. Problem is, as discussed previously, moving toward that concept involves chasing away guests who don't fit the model of "family staying in a WDW resort for a week on a dining plan and never leaving property".

I feel like this plan only works well if you're a captive audience on a cruise ship or a Caribbean island. It's just too easy to get off property to really sell the whole 'all-inclusive' thing at WDW.

which begs the question, do they care about the domestic visitors anymore? Their constant price increases and cut in benefits seems to me to be based on the idea that there is still a huge untapped international market willing to come to Orlando. They know middle class America can't afford it anymore or can't afford it as often and quite frankly they don't care.

True story. They appear to be pandering to the UK and South American markets more than ever before.

 

[WDW1974]

I see that exact scenario a lot around the parks, and it puzzles me to no end. Disney does a pretty good job of explaining/advertising the park hopper and multi-day tickets, but it falls on deaf ears with a lot of tourists.

People are not all created equally when it comes to intellectual capacity ... or simple common sense.

 

[WDW1974]

which begs the question, do they care about the domestic visitors anymore? Their constant price increases and cut in benefits seems to me to be based on the idea that there is still a huge untapped international market willing to come to Orlando. They know middle class America can't afford it anymore or can't afford it as often and quite frankly they don't care.

Not really unless they'll buy a timeshare and tie themselves to the Mouse for 43 years ... otherwise, they'd rather folks from overseas who because of our chronically weak currency can come and stay for 2-3-4 weeks and have a bargain 'holiday'.

 

[Kuhio]

I wonder how WDW is generally viewed by international guests. We do get the perspectives of English-speaking guests on WDWMagic and other forums, but there are obviously large numbers of international visitors who do not understand English well enough (or do not care about the parks enough) to post on a British- or American-based fansite.

Do visitors in large tour groups, for example, care less about maintenance issues, relative dearth of new entertainment options, etc. because the focus of their trip is centered on interacting with other members of their group, and their days are tightly regimented and scheduled?

Is a WDW vacation so relatively affordable to visitors from so many different countries that such issues become virtually immaterial? (The less one spends on something, the easier it is to be satisfied with value-for-money.)

In both of the above cases, I would guess that TDO can just maintain the status quo, and continue to draw guests from international markets at a rate that satisfies the number crunchers.

(Something else I've wondered more and more, especially recently: how do visitors from Japan view WDW? I've seen increasing numbers of Japanese guests at WDW over my last several trips. Assuming that someone from Japan will already be familiar with the TDR parks, I wonder if such guests would typically be surprised and disappointed at the state of the WDW parks as compared to TDL and TDS.)

I'd really be interested in knowing the answers to these types of questions, but I would guess that the data either isn't readily available or isn't susceptible to easy interpretation, given the large number of factors involved.

 

[Tim_4]

I love these analyses of "worth."

"Worth" is what someone is willing to pay.

 

[culturenthrills]

It's quite obvious that this is all anecdotal, but let me expand a little here. Besides personal experiences, our family lived in Orlando and we founded our business down there, which has since been relocated. Throughout the year, we attended many trade shows in Orlando and Orlando is one of the largest convention markets in the United States, competing with Chicago, Atlanta, and Las Vegas for the top numbers of conventions and visitors in a year. There is a sizable amount of these convention goers that would attend a park for a day, as multiple-day passes weren't a possibly as most of the shows are 3-4 days, and the visitors are tied up in business during many hours of those days.

There used to be decent park ticket discounting for conventions, now that's virtually nil. Most of the non-local business people that we would associate with would go to a park for an evening, or part of a day. I know a lot of them going down to Orlando today and none of them care to buy a park ticket as they don't see the value in three hours of a Disney theme park at nearly a $100.

It's a lot of pieces being put together here, but it's foolish to think that long-term they aren't harming their brand. I grew up visiting the parks year after year, later lived in Central Florida and visited regularly, and watched the quality nose dive. I know of so many people pulling back from visiting. It's all "anecdotal," but when it's one person after another, family after family, you see a trend, it's a micro-trend as it pertains to only the cluster of people that I know. But, it's pretty fair to think that this is going around all over the place. None of the people that I know aren't going because they are impaired by finances, they just see a lesser product that costs more now and isn't worth the inflated prices.

Disney inflates the the single day ticket to essentially force visitors to a higher price ticket. So, they get higher revenues even offsetting the single day ticket losses. I've been in business a long time and I get how it works. It's quite interesting to see how the company now merges their attendance figures. It makes sense. They don't care about bodies, they care about revenue. As long as the bottom-line numbers increase for the shareholders and the market, they don't care. It's all typical. HOWEVER, it still does not negate the fact that this is again short-term vision and not too brilliant for long term vacation loyalty. WDW is run by MBA's with spreadsheets and I've encountered many of them in business. The funny thing is that they always think that they have the answers and I've been business long enough to see that they end up on the wrong side time after time. They tend to forget the human element and that is awfully important in business.

I know that we're visiting Orlando and going to Universal Orlando in September. It's our first Universal only trip, ever, and I look forward to visiting Tokyo to get a taste of the quality that WDW used to be known for. I grew up loving the Disney theme parks, but I'm not being an apologist for yet another company in this country where they give you less and charge us more. I don't accept the notion that I should pay $500.00 a night for a hotel room and see peeling paint and burnt out lightbulbs, it's just not acceptable.

So sorry to go off on that a bit, but I wanted to just kind of expand on what I was posting before.

Well, it doesn't surprise me that they have given up on the convention crowd. Once they closed PI it was obvious that they no longer cared for the adult business people there for conventions. Now you see how busy Citywalk is and Universal is raking in money like crazy and Universal does a good job of getting rid of anyone under 18 at nights. There used to be different kinds of tickets for convention goers. If i remember correctly one convention I went to 8 years ago their was an after 2 or 4 pm ticket and other tickets that were at a discount.

Like we have said Disney seems like they are willing to lose a certain segment of their business which is very shortsighted on their part.

 

[AEfx]

That's assuming that I would pay those prices for those entertainment venues...I would not. Just as Cirque, football, broadway and NBA have priced themselves out of my market, so too has WDW. We have our September trip paid for and we all know that we are going to TOTALLY enjoy this one to the max. Unfortunately, it's probably the last for a long time due to the ridiculous price increases. We love it there and have visited twice a year for the last 6 years, but now we won't be making those 2 trips a year, so some of the other people on this site are going to have to make more trips to make up for it. Get busy planning you guys!!!!

Precisely.

There is a show on Broadway I have been waiting for them to do a revival of for fifteen years, and even though I live five states away, I was bound and determined to go. And then I looked at ticket prices - two decent tickets are going to run $300. For one show. And couple that with the travel (even if I went there and back the same day), I'm looking at minimum $500 (bare minimum).

So I'm not going.

The prime cost of a WDW vacation for most (unless you stay at Deluxes on site) is admission...and the higher it creeps, the less people will go.

 

[RKS Taiwan]

which begs the question, do they care about the domestic visitors anymore? Their constant price increases and cut in benefits seems to me to be based on the idea that there is still a huge untapped international market willing to come to Orlando. They know middle class America can't afford it anymore or can't afford it as often and quite frankly they don't care.

It may be that middle class America (and other countries with a dwindling middle class) won't care about Disney either. It works both ways.
Short term thinking indeed, regardless of the "branding" world wide that is going on with the Disney behemoth.
It's true I have been riding the fence in my posts, one side as a business man (full disclosure: I used to be a Disney share holder and sold my shares in the early 2000's made $120usd net... please don't ask.) and the other side as a Disney theme park fan. I would pay a whole lot more than $100 per day per park if Disney was to give me a reason to do so. I would actually reinvest in Disney if they (TDO) was to invest in their "own" park. Burbank be damned, we're going our own way.

 

[lebeau]

I see that exact scenario a lot around the parks, and it puzzles me to no end. Disney does a pretty good job of explaining/advertising the park hopper and multi-day tickets, but it falls on deaf ears with a lot of tourists.

I don't know. I think Disney intentionally muddies the waters whenever price is involved. It's pretty easy to figure out if you take the time to do so. But a lot of casual tourists don't realize that research is required. They think of a WDW vacation like going to their local amusement park. I know I used to.

If a casual tourist took Disney at their word, they would think the best deal around was staying on property on the deluxe dining plan with multi-day tickets with all the options, a day at the Bippity Boppity Boutique and Photopass+. That's the message Disney is pushing and it's not one casual tourists want to hear.

 

[alphac2005]

Next, food. I am trying the dining plan for the first time ever, and I am hoping my mind is changed after this trip, because I am not sure the DP is really worth it. We do mostly counter service typically and when I price it out, it comes out "cheaper" to not do the DP. When I use the word cheaper, I am just comparing the overall prices. Not that the food is cheap in anyway. The fact that it costs $15 for a burger (that tastes like crap), fries and a soda is absolutely nuts. The quality of all of the food has gone down tremendously in the last 5 years as the prices have skyrocketed. When you look at the sit downs, they are no different. Quality of food has gone down as well. The buffets that used to have Prime Rib, now serve a piece of beef that I wouldn't even say is half as good - but yet those prices have gone through the roof as well.

When we lived in Orlando, my wife and I would enjoy visiting Epcot in the evenings twice a week or so after closing up shop at our business for the evening. One thing that was always enjoyable was having a nice meal at a counter-service restaurant or having a desert at Sunshine Seasons at The Land. Today, the food "choices" are homogenized and echoing what you said, mostly awful. My wife absolutely loved the strawberry shortcake that they offered at The Land. Today, not only is it about half the previous size at a much inflated price, it also isn't nearly as good in quality. The dining plan has been a disaster for anyone that actually enjoyed dining at the parks. Even take a look at the high-end restaurants on the property, same deal, lower quality, higher price, and they've even gone to essentially generic menus with all but the logo changed out on them.

 

[RKS Taiwan]

I don't know. I think Disney intentionally muddies the waters whenever price is involved. It's pretty easy to figure out if you take the time to do so. But a lot of casual tourists don't realize that research is required. They think of a WDW vacation like going to their local amusement park. I know I used to.
If a casual tourist took Disney at their word, they would think the best deal around was staying on property on the deluxe dining plan with multi-day tickets with all the options, a day at the Bippity Boppity Boutique and Photopass+. That's the message Disney is pushing and it's not one casual tourists want to hear.

I don't know either. I can't believe that Disney "muddies the waters" on purpose. It may be that the muddy waters are a(n) happy accident (at least how they market the resort). We'll see what the "public/guest" has to say about it in the near future (or right now ). Nothing succinct about this discussion. Nicely done.
Premium pricing?, I think that is a given.

 

[lebeau]

I don't know either. I can't believe that Disney "muddies the waters" on purpose. It may be that the muddy waters are a(n) happy accident (at least how they market the resort). We'll see what the "public/guest" has to say about it in the near future (or right now). Nothing succinct about this discussion. Nicely done.
Premium pricing?, I think that is a given.

I remember back to the first Disney trip I ever planned. It was nearly impossible to get a breakdown of costs from Disney. They wanted to bundle everything up in a package. Sure, you could figure it out by pricing things a la carte. But Disney didn't make it easy on you. They certainly didn't (and still don't) offer a breakdown. I do think the website has improved a little since then. But it still seems to me that they try to hide costs in bundles.

If you call the phone line for help, they will not proactively help you. They will only answer direct questions. And if there is any room at all for them to be vague, they will give you the vaguest answer possible. They will not make money-saving recommendations as it is against their policy to do so. (Or so I understand.)

It's relatively easy to get all this info from non-Disney sources. But most casual tourists don't know this. If they rely on Disney, Disney is going to direct them towards an all-inclusive package every time. I think there is some intentional deception here. Or at the very least, they are being less than transparent in their pricing.

Add in to that the secrecy surrounding discounts, PIN codes, etc. It's all very overwhelming for a newbie. I think this is by design. If Disney wanted to, they could simplify their pricing structure. Or at least provide more info up front.

 

[COProgressFan]

Well, it doesn't surprise me that they have given up on the convention crowd. Once they closed PI it was obvious that they no longer cared for the adult business people there for conventions. Now you see how busy Citywalk is and Universal is raking in money like crazy and Universal does a good job of getting rid of anyone under 18 at nights. There used to be different kinds of tickets for convention goers. If i remember correctly one convention I went to 8 years ago their was an after 2 or 4 pm ticket and other tickets that were at a discount.

Like we have said Disney seems like they are willing to lose a certain segment of their business which is very shortsighted on their part.

On many levels, you are right. Much of this relates to a lack of leadership or oversight and coordination with the various departments within TDO. One hand doesn't know what the other is doing. For example, they promote Disney weddings but then build a huge tower next to the pavilion. They promote as a major destination for adults without children and honeymooners but then get rid of nightlife and close the parks early. They try to attract worldly one percenters, then continually lower the quality of the product. They push DVC endlessly, then never given owners a reason to want to come back (other than the fact they've already paid). The list goes on and on.

The decision was made to close PI by folks who didn't care about effects on conventioneers. But I can tell you the convention sales folks certainly weren't given any input on how this would affect their end of the business, and they still get complaints about lack of night life. It's a lot harder to sell not only the convention space, but hotel rooms, and the whole WDW property itself when there is less and less to offer. While many convention goers bring families, there are significant amounts who do not, and most probably have no interest in visiting a Disney theme park (especially without their kids). And even if they wanted to, if it's going to cost nearly $100 to visit for a few hours after dinner, who could blame them?

A true leader of the resort would recognize how all the pieces of WDW fit together and steer the ship accordingly. What may seem like small decisions can have a significant impact on the resort as a whole. No one at TDO seems to get that anymore. There is no coordinated effort, no one looking at the overall picture of what WDW is, could be, or should be. The only concern is the here and now quarterly earnings.

 

[COProgressFan]

I don't know. I think Disney intentionally muddies the waters whenever price is involved. It's pretty easy to figure out if you take the time to do so. But a lot of casual tourists don't realize that research is required. They think of a WDW vacation like going to their local amusement park. I know I used to.

If a casual tourist took Disney at their word, they would think the best deal around was staying on property on the deluxe dining plan with multi-day tickets with all the options, a day at the Bippity Boppity Boutique and Photopass+. That's the message Disney is pushing and it's not one casual tourists want to hear.

And the switch to the Magic Your Way tickets years ago only made things all the more complicated. I was looking at a WDW tickets brochure from a recent trip the other day, and it was just a confusing mess. I could barely follow it. And I am a regular visitor, and know exactly how the ticketing works.

It's got to be (intentionally?) confusing for casual guests.

 

[COProgressFan]

I don't know either. I can't believe that Disney "muddies the waters" on purpose. It may be that the muddy waters are a(n) happy accident (at least how they market the resort). We'll see what the "public/guest" has to say about it in the near future (or right now ). Nothing succinct about this discussion. Nicely done.
Premium pricing?, I think that is a given.

I think given the evidence, it's fairly clear that Disney intentionally "muddies the waters".

 

[ddbowdoin]

$100/day or %500/365 days...

it's a no brainer people

 

[DisneyJoe]

I remember back to the first Disney trip I ever planned. It was nearly impossible to get a breakdown of costs from Disney. They wanted to bundle everything up in a package. Sure, you could figure it out by pricing things a la carte. But Disney didn't make it easy on you. They certainly didn't (and still don't) offer a breakdown. I do think the website has improved a little since then. But it still seems to me that they try to hide costs in bundles.

If you call the phone line for help, they will not proactively help you. They will only answer direct questions. And if there is any room at all for them to be vague, they will give you the vaguest answer possible. They will not make money-saving recommendations as it is against their policy to do so. (Or so I understand.)

It's relatively easy to get all this info from non-Disney sources. But most casual tourists don't know this. If they rely on Disney, Disney is going to direct them towards an all-inclusive package every time. I think there is some intentional deception here. Or at the very least, they are being less than transparent in their pricing.

Add in to that the secrecy surrounding discounts, PIN codes, etc. It's all very overwhelming for a newbie. I think this is by design. If Disney wanted to, they could simplify their pricing structure. Or at least provide more info up front.

This is why Disney-specialist travel agents/agencies are needed - many of our clients are overwhelmed by the amount of information; we make it easy for them and do all of the work that the Disney call centers don't or won't do.

 

[alphac2005]

$100/day or %500/365 days...

it's a no brainer people

Well, it's a no brainer for people that come regularly, but not the average family that saves all year for a trip and the high multi-day tickets are pressing their budgets. That's like making the analogy of going to a store that has an item for $10, but if you buy four of them, it's $25 for all four. Well, the discounting is nice, but what if I didn't have $25 to spend, only the $10.

 

[RKS Taiwan]

I remember back to the first Disney trip I ever planned. It was nearly impossible to get a breakdown of costs from Disney. They wanted to bundle everything up in a package. Sure, you could figure it out by pricing things a la carte. But Disney didn't make it easy on you. They certainly didn't (and still don't) offer a breakdown. I do think the website has improved a little since then. But it still seems to me that they try to hide costs in bundles.

If you call the phone line for help, they will not proactively help you. They will only answer direct questions. And if there is any room at all for them to be vague, they will give you the vaguest answer possible. They will not make money-saving recommendations as it is against their policy to do so. (Or so I understand.)

It's relatively easy to get all this info from non-Disney sources. But most casual tourists don't know this. If they rely on Disney, Disney is going to direct them towards an all-inclusive package every time. I think there is some intentional deception here. Or at the very least, they are being less than transparent in their pricing.

Add in to that the secrecy surrounding discounts, PIN codes, etc. It's all very overwhelming for a newbie. I think this is by design. If Disney wanted to, they could simplify their pricing structure. Or at least provide more info up front.

I cannot argue this. All is right in your post (lebeau, nice blog by the way) as far as I know. Is $100 (soon very soon)/person/gate/day right? or am I missing something? I do believe there is secrecy (wrongly) but nothing that can't be found out. It is a public traded company after all.
On topic: 89 dollars to 100 dollars soon VERY soon. 2021?