DAK “Zootopia” is being created for the Tree of Life theater

[Disgruntled Walt]

To be Avatar fits waaaaay better into Animal Kingdom than Zootopia

Animal Kingdom is about conservation and gaining a better understanding for man's relationship with and impact on nature. To understand the habitats of animals and man's impact on those habitats

Avatar is very much about that - it is about conservation and how many impact on Pandora was ruining it but nature is now reclaiming it. It is about observing and experience the Navi and the Banshees in their natural habitat - that is where they actually live in nature (a fictional nature to be fair)

Zootopia is nothing about that - it is using animals figures as fill in for humans and dealing with what humans deal with (largely racism) - the animals presented do not really ride trains in their natural habitat or work as police officers or go through habitrails to get to their office jobs. It has nothing to do with conservation and nothing to do with observing creatures in their natural habitats

Neither one of them fits. I agree with everything you said about Zootopia.

If Disney had bought the theme park rights to Lord of the Rings, would a Middle-Earth area be appropriate? Saruman shows a huge disregard for nature in the way he cuts down the forests surrounding Isengard to fuel his army and evil schemes. The Ents (tree-like creatures) attack in retaliation, standing up for the beauty of nature.

To me, as cool as it would be, it doesn't fit in Animal Kingdom for the SAME REASON Avatar doesn't. Animal Kingdom was meant to be focused on the animals of our dear Mother Earth: real, imagined, and extinct. The "imaginary" label is another way of describing folklore, which Expedition Everest leans into nicely. Avatar is not folklore; it's film. Middle-Earth is not folklore; it's fantasy literature. People believed in dragons and sea serpents and unicorns—they weren't real, but they BECAME part of the cultures they existed in. This hasn't happened with either Lord of the Rings or Avatar, especially since neither one of them is supposed to take place on Earth as we know it.

 

[Purduevian]

Neither one of them fits. I agree with everything you said about Zootopia.

If Disney had bought the theme park rights to Lord of the Rings, would a Middle-Earth area be appropriate? Saruman shows a huge disregard for nature in the way he cuts down the forests surrounding Isengard to fuel his army and evil schemes. The Ents (tree-like creatures) attack in retaliation, standing up for the beauty of nature.

To me, as cool as it would be, it doesn't fit in Animal Kingdom for the SAME REASON Avatar doesn't. Animal Kingdom was meant to be focused on the animals of our dear Mother Earth: real, imagined, and extinct. The "imaginary" label is another way of describing folklore, which Expedition Everest leans into nicely. Avatar is not folklore; it's film. Middle-Earth is not folklore; it's fantasy literature. People believed in dragons and sea serpents and unicorns—they weren't real, but they BECAME part of the cultures they existed in. This hasn't happened with either Lord of the Rings or Avatar, especially since neither one of them is supposed to take place on Earth as we know it.

You can't just add words or meanings to the dedication... the word imagined was used... not folklore

Welcome to a kingdom of animals… real, ancient, and imagined: a kingdom ruled by lions, dinosaurs, and dragons; a kingdom of balance, harmony, and survival; a kingdom we enter to share in the wonder, gaze at the beauty, thrill at the drama, and learn.

 

[Professortango1]

I don’t love zootopia - but there’s nothing wrong with it either. It’s better than turning red that’s for sure.

And as an IP - I think it fits the park better than Avatar.

Better than Turning Red? Nah, won't get an agreement from me. And this is coming from someone who enjoyed Zootopia and didn't want to see Turning Red.

And Avatar fits the concept of humans and animals co-existing whereas Zootopia has animals being humans in a world where all animals live in cities and are vegetarian but return to primal state of uncontrollable murder when given drugs as a part of a plan to spread racism amongst the citizens. Not sure that's a good fit for learning about animals and how we can co-exist with them.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think the biggest issue with Zootopia is there literally aren't any animals in the setting. Like, not a single one. All of the "animals" drive cars etc. and live in modern human society; there's no indication that there is a single animal as we think of them anywhere in that world.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Better than Turning Red? Nah, won't get an agreement from me. And this is coming from someone who enjoyed Zootopia and didn't want to see Turning Red.

Turning red is my least favorite Pixar movie by far.

Zootopia isn’t great but I like Jason Bateman from the arrested development days so it had that going for it.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

You can't just add words or meanings to the dedication... the word imagined was used... not folklore

I never said they used the word folklore, but for all intents and purposes that is what it is referring to. Why didn't it open with "imagined" animals from films, then? Could they not add Star Wars aliens and Xenomorphs?

Expedition Everest is the proof of this in my opinion; the mythical creature tied into the culture of the geographic area that the section of the park is themed to. It's a perfect fit.

Avatar is just this: Walk down a path and suddenly you're on another planet with animals and nature that James Cameron 'imagined,' and conservation is important back on earth because James Cameron's movie that these animals came from has that message. And now ride on a flying 'imagined' animal and look around at the imagined natural wonders that James Cameron imagined. And now ride on a boat through the imagined natural habitats of these imagined animals that are depicted on screens and projected on cutouts and there's one physical representation of the imagined animal and it's singing a song in an imaginary language, but see how beautiful it all is? Don't forget about the random robot body-suits that used to have a meet-and-greet—nothing hammers home the message of Animal Kingdom like a mechanical man!

Seriously, I'm so tired of people twisting themselves into knots to make Avatar fit. Just because it's well done doesn't mean it was a good idea to go in the park.

Same thing is happening with Zootopia, so my apologies for going off track here a bit. Zootopia doesn't fit, but neither does Avatar. And if Avatar does fit, I see no argument against Zootopia.

 

[Professortango1]

Turning red is my least favorite Pixar movie by far.

Zootopia isn’t great but I like Jason Bateman from the arrested development days so it had that going for it.

Wow, just looking back a little bit I would put Turning Red over Finding Dory, Luca, Soul, Lightyear. Looking back further I would put it above Toy Story 4, Cars 2, Cars 3, and The Good Dinosaur.

 

[Agent H]

I never said they used the word folklore, but for all intents and purposes that is what it is referring to. Why didn't it open with "imagined" animals from films, then? Could they not add Star Wars aliens and Xenomorphs?

Expedition Everest is the proof of this in my opinion; the mythical creature tied into the culture of the geographic area that the section of the park is themed to. It's a perfect fit.

Avatar is just this: Walk down a path and suddenly you're on another planet with animals and nature that James Cameron 'imagined,' and conservation is important back on earth because James Cameron's movie that these animals came from has that message. And now ride on a flying 'imagined' animal and look around at the imagined natural wonders that James Cameron imagined. And now ride on a boat through the imagined natural habitats of these imagined animals that are depicted on screens and projected on cutouts and there's one physical representation of the imagined animal and it's singing a song in an imaginary language, but see how beautiful it all is? Don't forget about the random robot body-suits that used to have a meet-and-greet—nothing hammers home the message of Animal Kingdom like a mechanical man!

Seriously, I'm so tired of people twisting themselves into knots to make Avatar fit. Just because it's well done doesn't mean it was a good idea to go in the park.

Same thing is happening with Zootopia, so my apologies for going off track here a bit. Zootopia doesn't fit, but neither does Avatar. And if Avatar does fit, I see no argument against Zootopia.

Was avatar an ill fit? Yes. But dang it if Joe rode didn’t make it work. if they built Zootopia they would just plop down the land from Shanghai with 0 changes

 

[UNCgolf]

Same thing is happening with Zootopia, so my apologies for going off track here a bit. Zootopia doesn't fit, but neither does Avatar. And if Avatar does fit, I see no argument against Zootopia.

It's really hard for me to understand this viewpoint.

Avatar definitely isn't a great fit, but I don't see how anyone could think it and Zootopia are roughly the same in terms of a potential AK fit. Avatar is very much about the natural world, and it's full of fictional animals. Zootopia doesn't even have animals! They don't exist in the setting!

It would be almost impossible to build something based around Zootopia that fit into the park as well as Pandora does, unless you just throw essentially everything that currently exists in the Zootopia IP out and create something new from scratch (and what would be the point of that?). As I said above, Sing or Robin Hood are good comparisons for Zootopia, and neither of them would make any sense at AK either.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Wow, just looking back a little bit I would put Turning Red over Finding Dory, Luca, Soul, Lightyear. Looking back further I would put it above Toy Story 4, Cars 2, Cars 3, and The Good Dinosaur.

Yeah…. It’s below all of those on my personal list. Soul is one of my favorites though!

 

[Professortango1]

Yeah…. It’s below all of those on my personal list. Soul is one of my favorites though!

I would have appreciated Soul more if it didn't chicken out on the ending. And if most of the movie wasn't ugly blue blobs in a void. I LOVE the ideas presented in it, but the film does not do honor or justice to any of the ideas, sadly.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

It's really hard for me to understand this viewpoint.

Avatar definitely isn't a great fit, but I don't see how anyone could think it and Zootopia are roughly the same in terms of a potential AK fit. Avatar is very much about the natural world, and it's full of fictional animals. Zootopia doesn't even have animals! They don't exist in the setting!

It would be almost impossible to build something based around Zootopia that fit into the park as well as Pandora does, unless you just throw essentially everything that currently exists in the Zootopia IP out and create something new from scratch (and what would be the point of that?). As I said above, Sing or Robin Hood are good comparisons for Zootopia, and neither of them would make any sense at AK either.

I'm saying that the Rubicon has been crossed with Avatar. If people are willing to bend "the rules" for Avatar to make it "fit," other people can certainly "bend the rules" for Zootopia.

I agree with you entirely about Zootopia. And I think that there are different reasons that both Avatar and Zootopia are bad fits.

I think there's a lot of people out there that have different opinions about each of these franchises' fit. I have the same opinion about both. They both don't fit, but for different reasons.

But Animal Kingdom isn't what it was, and hasn't been since Avatar. So nothing shocks me.

Indiana Jones is frustrating for completely different reasons, but it CAN fit better than either of the other two. Because it could lean into the folklore aspect of Animal Kingdom.

 

[communicorn96]

I'm honestly not sure how you can even say "EPCOT created Disney media properties" and not realize how admitting that completely destroys the whole point you've been attempting to make. That's fundamentally opposed to how current Disney runs the parks, which is the problem.

You seem to be looking at it in binary terms; that if the parks promoted Disney IP in some areas then that was the only thing they ever did, as though the parks couldn't have possibly had multiple purposes.

Maybe i am not wording it right. When I say the parks exists to promote the media and the media exists to promote the parks ultimately it's all about promoting the Disney Brand. The end goal is cradle to grave consumption of disney product. Pretending or denying that hasn't always been the end goal, even under uncle walt, as adults is silly. Its why i dont get the agitation at IP, its all IP to promote disney.

I'm aware this is very cynical outlook, but this is how businesses run.

We can be aware of it, we can be weary of it, we can admit a lot of impressive art came out of it, but at the end of the day it is what it is... bubble wands.

 

[Purduevian]

I never said they used the word folklore, but for all intents and purposes that is what it is referring to. Why didn't it open with "imagined" animals from films, then? Could they not add Star Wars aliens and Xenomorphs?

Expedition Everest is the proof of this in my opinion; the mythical creature tied into the culture of the geographic area that the section of the park is themed to. It's a perfect fit.

Avatar is just this: Walk down a path and suddenly you're on another planet with animals and nature that James Cameron 'imagined,' and conservation is important back on earth because James Cameron's movie that these animals came from has that message. And now ride on a flying 'imagined' animal and look around at the imagined natural wonders that James Cameron imagined. And now ride on a boat through the imagined natural habitats of these imagined animals that are depicted on screens and projected on cutouts and there's one physical representation of the imagined animal and it's singing a song in an imaginary language, but see how beautiful it all is? Don't forget about the random robot body-suits that used to have a meet-and-greet—nothing hammers home the message of Animal Kingdom like a mechanical man!

Seriously, I'm so tired of people twisting themselves into knots to make Avatar fit. Just because it's well done doesn't mean it was a good idea to go in the park.

Same thing is happening with Zootopia, so my apologies for going off track here a bit. Zootopia doesn't fit, but neither does Avatar. And if Avatar does fit, I see no argument against Zootopia.

I think anything that is not based around humans, things built by humans, or humanoid creatures fits into AK as long as it fits into the 3 themes of AK.

All of Disney’s Animal Kingdom is based on three themes. The intrinsic value of nature. Psychological transformation through adventure. And a personal call to action. - Joe Rohde

I see these themes in Avatar. I think they could build a great star wars land, or middle earth land based around these themes.

Notice how unobtanium or mining isn't the main point of the land.

 

[Agent H]

I'm saying that the Rubicon has been crossed with Avatar. If people are willing to bend "the rules" for Avatar to make it "fit," other people can certainly "bend the rules" for Zootopia.

I agree with you entirely about Zootopia. And I think that there are different reasons that both Avatar and Zootopia are bad fits.

I think there's a lot of people out there that have different opinions about each of these franchises' fit. I have the same opinion about both. They both don't fit, but for different reasons.

But Animal Kingdom isn't what it was, and hasn't been since Avatar. So nothing shocks me.

Indiana Jones is frustrating for completely different reasons, but it CAN fit better than either of the other two. Because it could lean into the folklore aspect of Animal Kingdom.

If Joe rode was on board I would be okay with almost anything including Zootopia. Talk about being able to make lemonade out of lemons.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

If Joe rode was on board I would be okay with almost anything including Zootopia. Talk about being able to make lemonade out of lemons.

Joe Rohde worked for a company. He wasn't in charge. I will always believe he would not have done Avatar if he had been allowed to veto it.

 

[Professortango1]

Joe Rohde worked for a company. He wasn't in charge. I will always believe he would not have done Avatar if he had been allowed to veto it.

He certainly wouldn't have done Mission BO. And certainly wouldn't have planned to have him leading both projects at the same time. To open the same exact day on opposite sides of the country.

It is so sad what Disney did to Rohde. I don't blame him for walking away.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

If Joe rode was on board I would be okay with almost anything including Zootopia. Talk about being able to make lemonade out of lemons.

Challenge is Joe has said that AK has (other than the Fab 5) a "no pants rule" - so animals with pants don't fit in AK in his mind so based on that at least, he wouldn't be in favor of Zootopia and I am sure is impacted a lot of people's views on things

 

[Agent H]

Joe Rohde worked for a company. He wasn't in charge. I will always believe he would not have done Avatar if he had been allowed to veto it.

We are on the same page when it comes to this but again I point to pandora as my evidence he can do a good job with almost anything.

 

[Agent H]

Challenge is Joe has said that AK has (other than the Fab 5) a "no pants rule" - so animals with pants don't fit in AK in his mind so based on that at least, he wouldn't be in favor of Zootopia and I am sure is impacted a lot of people's views on things

Sure but corporate could easily force his hand.