‘We’re putting people who are visiting Disney in danger.’ Firefighters say they are short-handed at theme park

[Nubs70]

No one is saying the buildings are overcrowded to the point of being dangerous.

What they are saying is that given the tremendous amount of sprawl which has overtaken WDW in the past 30 years, first responder staffing has not been increased to match.

If the population of your community increases by 50%, don't you think you would need to bring on more people providing critical services?

If the current population of WDW exceeds the population that RCFD can safely serve, the Fire Marshall can legally restrict the population size.

 

[monothingie]

I just want to also point out that, WDW has no problem paying for additional OCSD Deputies and FHP to provide policing at the parks, resorts, and Springs. 30 years ago you never saw the presence of law enforcement on property, but then circumstances changed to warrant their very visible and necessary presence. The same premise holds true for Fire/EMS first responders, however because these roles are usually out of the guest's sight, it seems that the same urgency isn't there on the part of the power holders.

 

[monothingie]

If the current population of WDW exceeds the population that RCFD can safely serve, the Fire Marshall can legally restrict the population size.

Fire Officials, Marshalls, Inspectors, etc. are bound by fire prevention codes and regulations. While they have input in zoning and planning functions, they have no legal ability to limit how many people can enter or leave a population center, city, town, etc.

But by all means please cite the statute in the Florida that allows them to do this.

 

[HauntedPirate]

You’re right, the company’s troubles are clearly the commoners fault

Clearly. All the problems with Disney can be attributed to the consumers not buying enough or spending enough. Or expecting the company to live up to the standards it created for itself in years past. Of course, "good enough" is what they aim for these days, and the rubes absolutely... Eat. It. Up.

Disney - Do better.

 

[hosekiller]

Clearly. All the problems with Disney can be attributed to the consumers not buying enough or spending enough. Or expecting the company to live up to the standards it created for itself in years past. Of course, "good enough" is what they aim for these days, and the rubes absolutely... Eat. It. Up.

Disney - Do better.

I’m guilty haha. Every time we’ve visited we have a budget that we don’t exceed. We don’t buy a bunch of extras, but then again, I just don’t see the value in the extras. But then again, if you show me something that’s worth the extra money, I’d be first in line for it

 

[Lilofan]

If the current population of WDW exceeds the population that RCFD can safely serve, the Fire Marshall can legally restrict the population size.

Seems like you have never witnessed being like sardines on NYE in various locations.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If the current population of WDW exceeds the population that RCFD can safely serve, the Fire Marshall can legally restrict the population size.

The Florida Fire Prevention Code only restricts the capacity of a building. It has no provision for capping the capacity of an outdoor theme park or outdoor mall. Nor is there any provision to prohibit development that is in compliance with the code requirements.

The Fire Marshall could go around and start trying to enforce reduced capacities on existing buildings to lower the amount of people present but it would be a fight they are likely to lose. The maximum occupancy of a building isn’t a number just made up by the Fire Marshall, it’s really determined by the architect who designs a building to meet the criteria of the building and fire codes. While the fire code gives the Fire Marshall significant power to accept designs as they see fit such a wide reaching unilateral change in what has already been permitted would draw legal challenges unlikely to hold up.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Seems like you have never witnessed being like sardines on NYE in various locations.

Can't say I've ever been foolish enough to go to WDW on NYE. So you are correct, I never have and never will witness it. However, what you are saying is that they should staff the departments to the possible needs of one night per year, but keep them on all year long.

 

[WallyWorld]

I thought you said you were done with this thread?

 

[wm49rs]

Can't say I've ever been foolish enough to go to WDW on NYE. So you are correct, I never have and never will witness it. However, what you are saying is that they should staff the departments to the possible needs of one night per year, but keep them on all year long.

Or Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, much of the months of March and April, 4th of July, Thanksgiving, shall I go on? But hey, the vast majority of are perfect health, so no worries, right?

 

[EeyoreFan#24]

I would be shocked if there weren’t special assignments for special dates. But then again I have been shocked before.

 

[hosekiller]

However, what you are saying is that they should staff the departments to the possible needs of one night per year, but keep them on all year long.

Said nobody ever.

 

[witman281]

Good afternoon I’ve been reading all the replies trying to decide how to respond. I work for a city that went distressed in 2010 and cut are numbers from 22 firefighters on duty with 6 medics on 3 ALS units down to 18 and 6 so I know a little about what the complaint is from the union. He’s pointing out before the pandemic they had 8 ambulances along with the fire compliment and now have only 5 ambulances. The union is trying to point out they have 3 less ambulances to respond to calls and the fire side hasn’t increased staff in years so it hasn’t grown with the visitor totals Disney is experiencing. The union is just trying to point that out so everyone has a idea of what could happen in a emergency. The union is probably hoping the article will get Disney to bring staff back to pre pandemic levels and maybe even increase it the next contract. I understand RCFD is in a unique situation where they don’t get typical funding through taxes on homes and businesses but mostly through Disney itself and the parks and hotels so when they ask for more staffing it’s all tied to how the company is doing financially so the last 2 years would have been a major financial hit to the RCFD funding leading to the cutbacks they are mentioning in the article. There is no way to know during the shutdown how many calls RCFD responded to since I’m not sure that is public knowledge unlike where I am and anyone can ask for that info. That information Is probably what they used to cut those ambulances since one would assume a majority of their medical calls are to the park and hotels so shutdown probably had a major impact in call volume. One would also assume once Disney parks are getting somewhat normal that staffing will be increased due to the same call volume going back up. The only thing that will change as far as safety goes right now is that ambulance will be coming from somewhere outside the RCFD and may lead to a extended time waiting for transport but one would assume that all the firefighters are at least EMTs and patient care would not suffer outside of lifesaving drugs that Paramedics would dispense. Visitors should not feel alarmed by this since it goes on all over the country and Disney is no way less safe.

 

[JoeCamel]

Good afternoon I’ve been reading all the replies trying to decide how to respond. I work for a city that went distressed in 2010 and cut are numbers from 22 firefighters on duty with 6 medics on 3 ALS units down to 18 and 6 so I know a little about what the complaint is from the union. He’s pointing out before the pandemic they had 8 ambulances along with the fire compliment and now have only 5 ambulances. The union is trying to point out they have 3 less ambulances to respond to calls and the fire side hasn’t increased staff in years so it hasn’t grown with the visitor totals Disney is experiencing. The union is just trying to point that out so everyone has a idea of what could happen in a emergency. The union is probably hoping the article will get Disney to bring staff back to pre pandemic levels and maybe even increase it the next contract. I understand RCFD is in a unique situation where they don’t get typical funding through taxes on homes and businesses but mostly through Disney itself and the parks and hotels so when they ask for more staffing it’s all tied to how the company is doing financially so the last 2 years would have been a major financial hit to the RCFD funding leading to the cutbacks they are mentioning in the article. There is no way to know during the shutdown how many calls RCFD responded to since I’m not sure that is public knowledge unlike where I am and anyone can ask for that info. That information Is probably what they used to cut those ambulances since one would assume a majority of their medical calls are to the park and hotels so shutdown probably had a major impact in call volume. One would also assume once Disney parks are getting somewhat normal that staffing will be increased due to the same call volume going back up. The only thing that will change as far as safety goes right now is that ambulance will be coming from somewhere outside the RCFD and may lead to a extended time waiting for transport but one would assume that all the firefighters are at least EMTs and patient care would not suffer outside of lifesaving drugs that Paramedics would dispense. Visitors should not feel alarmed by this since it goes on all over the country and Disney is no way less safe.

I don't think anyone is disputing that more emergency services are needed but for me it is the boy who cried wolf when I hear this every year for 15+ years. They need to come up with a better plan as this one is not working to get to the goal.

 

[flynnibus]

t. I understand RCFD is in a unique situation where they don’t get typical funding through taxes on homes and businesses but mostly through Disney itself and the parks and hotels so when they ask for more staffing it’s all tied to how the company is doing financially so the last 2 years would have been a major financial hit to the RCFD funding leading to the cutbacks they are mentioning in the article.

no - they are funded very much like any other regional government. The difference is they basically only have one constituent…. And that same constituent has control over the RCID officials so they can’t make decisions disney doesn’t support for too long. So while it operates with incomes from fees and permits etc like normal … it doesn’t set those things independently from Disney’s oversight. So their target budget is indirectly controlled by disney.

 

[peter11435]

no - they are funded very much like any other regional government. The difference is they basically only have one constituent…. And that same constituent has control over the RCID officials so they can’t make decisions disney doesn’t support for too long. So while it operates with incomes from fees and permits etc like normal … it doesn’t set those things independently from Disney’s oversight. So their target budget is indirectly controlled by disney.

They also pay property taxes to RCID based on the assessed values dictated by the county. For example they paid a little over $6 million to the district in property taxes for the land designated as Epcot last year.

 

[Lilofan]

They also pay property taxes to RCID based on the assessed values dictated by the county. For example they paid a little over $6 million to the district in property taxes for the land designated as Epcot last year.

Dictated by the county? Every year Disney lawyers battle with the county tax appraiser ( ie Rick Singh ) saying that they should pay lower property taxes. The judges side with Disney every time.

 

[peter11435]

Dictated by the county? Every year Disney lawyers battle with the county tax appraiser ( ie Rick Singh ) saying that they should pay lower property taxes. The judges side with Disney every time.

Property values are set by the county. Disney (and other local land owners) challenged Singh and won because he was unfairly overvaluing property. It has not happened every year, just the years with Singh using unfair taxing rules. The judges have ruled against Singh because he was in the wrong.

 

[donsullivan]

I don't think anyone is disputing that more emergency services are needed but for me it is the boy who cried wolf when I hear this every year for 15+ years. They need to come up with a better plan as this one is not working to get to the goal.

That's one of the key messages in all of this. This guy/union use every single public alert of a fire/rescue event on that property to jump out in front of the cameras to publicly proclaim how 'dangerous' it is when people visit the WDW property and how over-worked they are. At this point he has turned into a parody of the ambulance chaser- in his case, he runs to the press and cameras whenever they are already paying attention because something highly visible happened.

 

[hosekiller]

That's one of the key messages in all of this. This guy/union use every single public alert of a fire/rescue event on that property to jump out in front of the cameras to publicly proclaim how 'dangerous' it is when people visit the WDW property and how over-worked they are. At this point he has turned into a parody of the ambulance chaser- in his case, he runs to the press and cameras whenever they are already paying attention because something highly visible happened.

Well, what other option does he have? They’re in a unique position given how the district is set up and managed, but again, look at the resources available to the company. Not trying to get into a finance discussion, but look at the money they drop on rides and their resorts. Additional funds boosting manpower for public safety is nothing to them. As mentioned before, they aren’t scared to pay law enforcement the going rate for specials pay.