Win or Lose (Pixar Disney+ series)

[Casper Gutman]

It’s a personal decision. Anyone who knows my posting history knows I don’t want Disney or Pixar to fail. But if I won’t be able to enjoy the show because of certain unwelcome associations it carries for me, I’d rather spend my time doing something else.

As grim as it is, Disney has put itself in a position where it is imperative that it fails.

 

[LittleBuford]

Not watching it is the very moderate position. Boycotting all Disney product is a more proportionate response to the depths of Disney’s cowardice and the impact it will have on society.

I admit to being too hooked (or lacking in conviction) to do that. I also tell myself that I don’t want to punish all those involved in the company (many of whom belong to the queer community) by boycotting their contributions. In fact, that’s the only reason I may end up watching this show.

But yes, it’s a difficult time for some of us Disney fans right now. I hope this moment doesn’t last long.

 

[LittleBuford]

As grim as it is, Disney has put itself in a position where it is imperative that it fails.

I hope some of its decisions come back to bite the company in consequential ways, but I certainly don’t want it to fail (at least as I understand that word).

 

[Agent H]

I admit to being too hooked (or lacking in conviction) to do that. I also tell myself that I don’t want to punish all those involved in the company (many of whom belong to the queer community) by boycotting their contributions. In fact, that’s the only reason I may end up watching this show.

But yes, it’s a difficult time for some of us Disney fans right now. I hope this moment doesn’t last long.

I intend to watch this show but if this trend continues I will have to be more specific about what I will and won’t watch

 

[LittleBuford]

I just want to say that I know that @DisneyWarrior27 is coming from a place of real passion for the company, and I don’t think he meant what he posted to come off the way it may have.

 

[DisneyWarrior27]

I just want to say that I know that @DisneyWarrior27 is coming from a place of real passion for the company, and I don’t think he meant what he posted to come off the way it may have.

@Ghost93, you summed up my feelings also. Disney’s treatment of that character has pretty much killed my excitement.

Of course it didn’t come off the way it may have.

But let me ask you this?

How many times has Pixar had to suffer for Disney’s actions (either under Chapek with how their original movies never got a chance in theaters or under Iger when they had to rework certain things in upcoming stories to avoid losing their core audiences) and never get any better, failure or success?

How long until that continues for them to the point where people like us have to say “enough?”

 

[LittleBuford]

Of course it didn’t come off the way it may have.

But let me ask you this?

How many times has Pixar had to suffer for Disney’s actions (either under Chapek with how their original movies never got a chance in theaters or under Iger when they had to rework certain things in upcoming stories to avoid losing their core audiences) and never get any better, failure or success?

How long until that continues for them to the point where people like us have to say “enough?”

I don’t really understand your question. I’ve articulated my feelings as clearly as I can; I think it’s best we agree to disagree.

 

[DisneyWarrior27]

I don’t really understand your question. I’ve articulated my feelings as clearly as I can; I think it’s best we agree to disagree.

Fair enough.

 

[Heppenheimer]

So, is this show any good or not?

 

[Miss Rori]

So, is this show any good or not?

The professional reviews I've seen (which cover the first 5 episodes of 8) have been middle-of-the-road leaning on positive, but not great. And as it turns out, the shadow of the changes they made to episode 7 hangs over the reception because the whole theme of the show is the idea that each person you meet is fighting some battle you can't see (with anxiety, shyness, etc.) and deserves empathy and compassion, so the implication that a transgender character doesn't deserve that consideration sort of cuts the idea off at the knees.

 

[DKampy]

This is sad…Disney is not going to falter in our lifetimes… they are too mainstream at this point… but people can still send a message by not watching a product for chaging direction due to pressure from bigots…. If one side can get them to change direction so can the other… I don’t think that is going against the creatives… they got paid

I am lucky…. As a straight white guy I have always had people from the LBGTQ+ icommunity in my life...they have been some of the nicest people I have ever known…I attribute that to always living in a Diverse area and being a Disney fan…. I could be wrong (Someone who is in the community could probably speak more to this)… but it always felt like there was a high percentage that were Disney fans

I will not watch this… I am not prepared to boycott all Disney…. As I am to other companies that have completely deleted their DEI products such as Walmart, Facebook. And Amazon… as it seems Disney still has one… they are just hiding their efforts to appease one side…. It does make me wonder if the Captain America rumors are true though

 

[DisneyWarrior27]

This is sad…Disney is not going to falter in our lifetimes… they are too mainstream at this point… but people can still send a message by not watching a product for chaging direction due to pressure from bigots…. If one side can get them to change direction so can the other… I don’t think that is going against the creatives… they got paid

I am lucky…. As a straight white guy I have always had people from the LBGTQ+ icommunity in my life...they have been some of the nicest people I have ever known…I attribute that to always living in a Diverse area and being a Disney fan…. I could be wrong (Someone who is in the community could probably speak more to this)… but it always felt like there was a high percentage that were Disney fans

I will not watch this… I am not prepared to boycott all Disney…. As I am to other companies that have completely deleted their DEI products such as Walmart, Facebook. And Amazon… as it seems Disney still has one… they are just hiding their efforts to appease one side…. It does make me wonder if the Captain America rumors are true though

Oh they were true alright.

And I don’t think all those creatives were paid since they were laid off from Pixar in 2023.

 

[Architectural Guinea Pig]

Not watching it is the very moderate position. Boycotting all Disney product is a more proportionate response to the depths of Disney’s cowardice and the impact it will have on society.

Cowardice? Disney has clearly shown that it has been a progressive company, it has had many films where even small amounts of representation have created intense waves of backlash and review bombing that has unfortunately destroyed thousands of hours of hard work by passionate people. While it's not ideal, we have to accept that the removal of controversial topics will increase the film's chance of success. The show is still a work of art in the end and it deserves the maximum amount of love it can take.

 

[DisneyWarrior27]

Cowardice? Disney has clearly shown that it has been a progressive company, it has had many films where even small amounts of representation have created intense waves of backlash and review bombing that has unfortunately destroyed thousands of hours of hard work by passionate people. While it's not ideal, we have to accept that the removal of controversial topics will increase the film's chance of success. The show is still a work of art in the end and it deserves the maximum amount of love it can take.

This. ^

People need to realize that boycotting does nothing, if not only make things worse.

It’s time to realize the work of the artists matter and can’t be a failure just because a few people aren’t happy they’re being taught a hard lesson

 

[LittleBuford]

Cowardice?

Yes, cowardice:

Actress speaks out as trans storyline cut from Pixar's Win or Lose

Chanel Stewart, the transgender actress who voiced a trans character cut from Disney Pixar’s Win or Lose has said she is "very disheartened".

www.thepinknews.com

 

[Casper Gutman]

This. ^

People need to realize that boycotting does nothing, if not only make things worse.

It’s time to realize the work of the artists matter and can’t be a failure just because a few people aren’t happy they’re being taught a hard lesson

Disney has displayed abject cowardice on multiple fronts in multiple incidents over the last year. This craven behavior, along with that of many other corporations, is going to facilitate changes to the country and the world you never believed possible. So many things that have been taken for granted are going to change.

We have no good solutions. Artists are going to be hurt regardless. I guarantee that many of them would support taking action, even if it means less people support their art.

Brand loyalty is utterly insignificant compared to what is happening.

 

[DisneyWarrior27]

Disney has displayed abject cowardice on multiple fronts in multiple incidents over the last year. This craven behavior, along with that of many other corporations, is going to facilitate changes to the country and the world you never believed possible. So many things that have been taken for granted are going to change.

We have no good solutions. Artists are going to be hurt regardless. I guarantee that many of them would support taking action, even if it means less people support their art.

Brand loyalty is utterly insignificant compared to what is happening.

That’s not the way I see it.

My stance is that we people take the world as it is, not as how we’d like it to be because there is no way we can do better without it hurting people who make stories for us.

 

[TsWade2]

Anyway, political stuff aside, I'm enjoying it so far. It's like an emotional roller coaster.

 

[BrianLo]

It’s a shame this has been tainted so badly.

It’s incredibly stylized, funny and quick witted. It’s gorgeously put together, looks quite visually distinct and clay-like.

 

[mickEblu]

There are issues at play that are exponentially more important than your brand loyalty. Your attitude in this thread is incredibly shortsighted, and I’m being generous in my phrasing.

How many more Losses did you except them to endure? They’re not a Non Profit. They give it a shot. It’s not what the people wanted. Actually I’m surprised it took them this long to reverse course.